Silver Surfer vs Apocalypse

Originally posted by carver9
Thor even during his young age was extremely powerful. Him not being able to cause pain or register to Apocalypse is a huge ft. This is something I can't see Surfer coming close to doing, let alone replicating anytime soon. Hell, it was even.stated that if Apocalypse headbutt Thor again. It would probably snap his neck/kill him.

Again, how is Surfer beating him? Thor and Kang had to resort to a weapon powerful enough to kill abstracts in order to take Apocalypse out.

A younger, less strong, less experienced, less powerful, and Mjolnirless Thor not being able to beat Apoc doesn't mean Surfer can't. By feats Surfer is much more powerful than young Thor.

The only thing Apoc has going for him is the armour. But like I said, unless Apoc carries a bunch of spares, his celestial armour is technically destroyed.

Originally posted by One-Punch
That's the only thing I'm iffy about. Young Thor may not have done well against Apoc, but he's also not as powerful as Surfer. And Technically his celestial armour is destroyed...

That's a bit of a misnomer (which Rage and I went back and forth about months ago). There's zero evidence that the armor was irreparably damaged, or that the armor Apocalypse subsequently employed was a lower grade (or a different armor entirely). Chronologically the encounter with Thor (in the 11th century) happened prior to Apocalypse's battle with High Evolutionary (Evolutionary War), and he had the armor (or a very adequate and capable facsimile) then as well.

Out of curiosity has Apoc's armour always been depicted the way it was in Uncanny?

Oops, double post.

Originally posted by One-Punch
A younger, less strong, less experienced, less powerful, and Mjolnirless Thor not being able to beat Apoc doesn't mean Surfer can't. By feats Surfer is much more powerful than young Thor.

The only thing Apoc has going for him is the armour. But like I said, unless Apoc carries a bunch of spares, his celestial armour is technically destroyed.

The same Thor withstood hits from Gor...was even powerful enough to take hits and harm Gor. This alone gives us an idea on how powerful this Thor is but yet, Apocalypse couldve removed his head from his spine with a single hit if it wasn't for Thor rolling with the punch.

http://i.imgur.com/t3ArWZV.jpg

A second headbutt from an Apocalypse that isn't even trying to kill Thor would kill him.

http://i.imgur.com/3QHVqVR.jpg

Like I've said before...even though this Thor isnt as powerful as his older self, he is still EXTREMELY powerful, to the point that he can withstand hits from trans level brings without faultering.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Out of curiosity has Apoc's armour always been depicted the way it was in Uncanny?

No.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Out of curiosity has Apoc's armour always been depicted the way it was in Uncanny?

As impenetrable, or with the specific statement of it being provided by the Celestials?

If the latter, no, because the fleshing out of Apocalypse as the "Evolutionary Caretaker" and the Death Seed/Life Seed/Apocalypse Armor origins are new retcons (previously Apocalypse had the armor crafted by Ship [the sentient Celestial spaceship] when he interfaced with it and learned all of it's secrets over a few centuries, then that was retconned into the Celestials outright giving the Ship to Apocalypse as their 'herald', and then most recently the armor is being depicted as being bestowed upon the Evolutionary Caretaker as a ceremonial rite. Previously it was simply Celestial Technology derived, now it's been retconned to being Celestial bestowed.

For the former, kind of. When at full power Apocalypse typically can't be harmed physically. It's usually via plot device (i.e., catching him in his regeneration chamber or a weakened state [X-Cutioner's Song, Messiah War, Blood of Apocalypse], or the time in The Twelve where the attempt to transform himself into a Celestial level being was botched and he was left in a vulnerable state due to merging with Cyclops). Most times when Apocalypse is on his game (and actually fights) he no sells everything thrown at him.

Except for lab tables.

Apoc wins the h2h with no question. Surfer can win via blackhole blasts and exotic means.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Except for lab tables.

Originally posted by carver9
The same Thor withstood hits from Gor...was even powerful enough to take hits and harm Gor. This alone gives us an idea on how powerful this Thor is but yet, Apocalypse couldve removed his head from his spine with a single hit if it wasn't for Thor rolling with the punch.

http://i.imgur.com/t3ArWZV.jpg

A second headbutt from an Apocalypse that isn't even trying to kill Thor would kill him.

http://i.imgur.com/3QHVqVR.jpg

Like I've said before...even though this Thor isnt as powerful as his older self, he is still EXTREMELY powerful, to the point that he can withstand hits from trans level brings without faultering.

Also your first scan was a cheap-shot.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
That's a bit of a misnomer (which Rage and I went back and forth about months ago). There's zero evidence that the armor was irreparably damaged, or that the armor Apocalypse subsequently employed was a lower grade (or a different armor entirely). Chronologically the encounter with Thor (in the 11th century) happened prior to Apocalypse's battle with High Evolutionary (Evolutionary War), and he had the armor (or a very adequate and capable facsimile) then as well.

Based on everything we've seen, it's pretty likely that the armor IS irreparably damaged. That's kind of the whole point of the axe. Once Celestials are chopped up, nothing can put them back together again.

I don't know about previous incarnations but under Remender, the Celestial armor, the one Apocalypse was rocking against Young Thor, is a special suit gifted to the current Apocalypse by the Celestial Gardener when they receive their seed. This was noted when Holocaust was about to ascend to the throne of Apocalypse.

Yes, he has access to Celestial technology, but that doesn't mean he has all of their capabilities. As a matter of fact, the seeds which are associated with the armor were only in the possession of the Gardeners for example.

The entire point of Kang stealing the axe was so that he could kill every future Apocalypse -through their armor- as they ascend to the throne.

I've never seen any other portrayal suggesting that Apocalypse had Celestial armor. Sure, he has integrated Celestial tech or worn variations of Celestial armor and so on, but this directly compared to what actual Celestials wear.

It's not completely conclusive but I see absolutely no reason why anyone would think that Apocalypse has spares lying about or something based on everything Remender has written.

Originally posted by carver9
The same Thor withstood hits from Gor...was even powerful enough to take hits and harm Gor. This alone gives us an idea on how powerful this Thor is but yet, Apocalypse couldve removed his head from his spine with a single hit if it wasn't for Thor rolling with the punch.

http://i.imgur.com/t3ArWZV.jpg

A second headbutt from an Apocalypse that isn't even trying to kill Thor would kill him.

http://i.imgur.com/3QHVqVR.jpg

Like I've said before...even though this Thor isnt as powerful as his older self, he is still EXTREMELY powerful, to the point that he can withstand hits from trans level brings without faultering.

Lol, forgot how silly the narration was. Take off Thor's head? The punch knocked him off his feet momentarily. Break his spine? The headbutt barely broke skin. He then endures Apocalypse's heat vision unscathed and takes the axe way better. Not to mention how tough young Thor was in his own serious. He even withstood the heat of a Star.

I don't even know how the f*ck is Thor even conscious if Apocalypse can do that kind of damage to him. Just seems amusing and odd to me because Thor's skeleton structure is unusually tougher then his flesh historically. I get that he was still young though so whatever.

Either way, Apocalypse had to be hitting with above Herald power.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
That was a younger Gorr who was not fully aware of what the annihiblade can do.

Also your first scan was a cheap-shot.

And he rolled with the blow as stated per the scan. The second blow was head on and it still had the same affect.

Lets not pretend like young Thor didn't face an experienced Gor. He did and like I've said before, he withstood his licks, even during the time he was being tortured. Hell, at one point, he was knocking Gor around with the other Thors (but failed to budge Apocalypse).

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol, forgot how silly the narration was. Take off Thor's head? The punch knocked him off his feet momentarily. Break his spine? The headbutt barely broke skin. He then endures Apocalypse's heat vision unscathed and takes the axe way better. Not to mention how tough young Thor was in his own serious. He even withstood the heat of a Star.

I don't even know how the f*ck is Thor even conscious if Apocalypse can do that kind of damage to him. Just seems amusing and odd to me because Thor's skeleton structure is unusually tougher then his flesh historically. I get that he was still young though so whatever.

Either way, Apocalypse had to be hitting with above Herald power.

It's Thor. He doesn't believe in falling or giving up. I've seen people outright mount him and beat on him with repeated blows, but the next panel, he is up. The guy win the trophy for one of the best damage soak in comics. We still have to listen to the narration though (shrugs).

Originally posted by carver9
And he rolled with the blow as stated per the scan. The second blow was head on and it still had the same affect.

Lets not pretend like young Thor didn't face an experienced Gor. He did and like I've said before, he withstood his licks, even during the time he was being tortured. Hell, at one point, he was knocking Gor around with the other Thors (but failed to budge Apocalypse).

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wrong.

Sigh*... I enjoy proving people wrong. Please don't let me post the scans. What am I wrong about.?

Originally posted by carver9
Sigh*... I enjoy proving people wrong. Please don't let me post the scans. What am I wrong about.?

True young Thor was able to get a couple on Gorr. Don't forget it started from a sneak attack. Gorr was so preoccupied with Thor-father and Avenger Thor, Young Thor was able to get the drop on him. Other than that, he was completely ineffectual against Gorr.

Originally posted by carver9
By plot device that is currently killing off Celestials? Yep, you're right.
:

The Apoc twins?

unless you know something i don't know, Last i know he was dead and all thats left is the Clone named Genesis.

Poccy

It was a real high showing for apocalypse in that one issue vs young thor. He doesn't regularly operate with that much durability.