Uncuffed Wonder Woman vs Superman

Originally posted by Epicurus
^Not sure exactly what you're trying to prove using those scans, but claiming that Orion and War "did better" then her when the most damage on-panel was done by Diana herself(a single cold-clock from her bloodied his jaw up as opposed to Orion doing his eye-gouge and War doing virtually no damage) is....odd to say the least.

Hooray, he beats superman too!!!!

All those scratch marks on the First Born are from regular Lions, it took him 7000 years to dig his way out from a deep pit, a tidal wave ended him etc:

Its clear that Azzarello is writing a completely different wonder woman than the rest and this uncuffed wonder woman is more powerful is based on nothing but mis-mashing the works of different writers. Heck, even he hadn't said that uncuffing makes her more powerful.

Also compare and contrast.

Even in the first scene Wonder Woman flung Artemis aside.

And in the second fight, she doesn't overpower Artemis anywhere. Instead she beats her with, you got it, her skills.

That isn't bigger than the relative performances of a serious Superman and Supergirl against H'el.

[Supergirl]

[Superman]

Under the same writer Supergirl and Wonder Woman were direct peers and when she punched H'el, Kara was stronger than ever.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Orion took several attacks from FB and kept on coming, she was laid out in a single attack. Bloodying FB is no big deal, Ares drew blood here too.

Hooray, he beats superman too!!!!

All those scratch marks on the First Born are from regular Lions, it took him 7000 years to dig his way out from a deep pit, a tidal wave ended him etc:

Its clear that Azzarello is writing a completely different wonder woman than the rest and this uncuffed wonder woman is more powerful is based on nothing but mis-mashing the works of different writers. Heck, even he hadn't said that uncuffing makes her more powerful.

😐 didn't see anything wrong with this showing, at all. If anything, it is beastly.

So this thread turned out exactly as i'd expected.

Nice lowballing and exaggeration on both sides. Really.

Wonder Woman should win. She's close enough to Clark's physical level (if not above it) that her skill will make up the difference.

I might even give her a slight majority against him with her bracers on.

Wondy "uncuffed" really hasn't been all that impressive...

Originally posted by -Pr-

So this thread turned out exactly as I'd expected.

Nice lowballing and exaggeration on both sides. Really.

Discernible improvement in relative cordiality, though.

Attacks that would have been mono-focused in the very recent past have been, largely, levied on the board as a whole. At least so far.

Compare how intense and personal things got starting with the 4th post on the first page of the DCnU Strength ranking thread if you want to see a contrast.

First Born would absolutely wreck Superman so saying her uncuffed form did nothing to him isn't proving anything.
Wondy is a better fighter than Superman and she has better feats against people who have made Clark look like a chump

Originally posted by celeyhyga17

Wondy "uncuffed" really hasn't been all that impressive ...

I think this has been a device the writers were experimenting with.

Some things DO evolve over time, after all.

For instance, to use an example many people might be familiar with,
the Hulk, back in issue 181, debut of X-Men hero Wolverine,
lightly endured the slashing of Logan's claws, almost without notice.

They were something that seemed to annoy rather than truly hurt.

Fast forward 20 or 30 years.

Logan's claws now score heavily, even on Greg Pak's powerful "World War" Hulk.

Hulk's toughness in battle has been gradually recast from a startling sort of durability to one of damage soak and metahuman healing ability.

Randomly, though, as in the case now of "Indestructible" Hulk, the writers "revert" back to original ideas, or, as might be more proper to term it,
"update" the character with elements from the past.

We have a parallel case here.

Note that there was a long-standing theme in the Wonder Woman mythos, that, if Diana's bracelets were ever removed,
she would become like a berserker, unchained.

The fact was sometimes used as a last ditch recourse to salvage a situation from what would otherwise be an absolutely certain defeat.
That dates back all the way to the 1940s.

Compare to what we see now:
Diana's opponent is a god, a child's life is in danger, few if any innocent bystanders are around, the situation is must-win,
only physical power will decide ... Wondy's "gloves" come off.

It is as if the writers wanted to pay homage to the creators of yesteryear, Easter-Egg longtime fans,
and provide an answer to ol' Sundip kid's trump card.

Then too, they even update it by giving Diana, quite in contrast to the past, ability to control the power she expresses, even in that heightened state.

Personally, I'm rather happy with the overall handling, accidental or not.
There's a great deal I'm finding wrong with the Wonder Woman series, but,
so far, this "uncuff" motif isn't one of them.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Discernible improvement in relative cordiality, though.

Attacks that would have been mono-focused in the very recent past have been, largely, levied on the board as a whole. At least so far.

Compare how intense and personal things got starting with the 4th post on the first page of the DCnU Strength ranking thread if you want to see a contrast.

To be honest, it's more a "when it happens" than an if, sadly.

Originally posted by 80sBaby
Wonder Woman should win. She's close enough to Clark's physical level (if not above it) that her skill will make up the difference.

I might even give her a slight majority against him with her bracers on.

Originally posted by SasuOna
First Born would absolutely wreck Superman so saying her uncuffed form did nothing to him isn't proving anything.
Wondy is a better fighter than Superman and she has better feats against people who have made Clark look like a chump

Whether FB would beat Superman or not is totally irrelevant, wonder woman didn't beat him either. She just drew a little blood and was knocked out by a simple divebomb. Superman's peer Orion took several attacks and kept on coming. She is going to get bitchslapped again.

😉

Originally posted by carver9
😐 didn't see anything wrong with this showing, at all. If anything, it is beastly.

I want to say Superman is he's the number one hero but the available evidence compels me to give it to Diana.

Their strength is on the same level regularly but she's far more skilled and if she brings her lasso and sword into the game, Clark doesn't have many counters. I'm assuming this dynamic will change sooner or later though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Orion took several attacks from FB and kept on coming, she was laid out in a single attack. Bloodying FB is no big deal, Ares drew blood here too.

Hooray, he beats superman too!!!!

All those scratch marks on the First Born are from regular Lions, it took him 7000 years to dig his way out from a deep pit, a tidal wave ended him etc:

Its clear that Azzarello is writing a completely different wonder woman than the rest and this uncuffed wonder woman is more powerful is based on nothing but mis-mashing the works of different writers. Heck, even he hadn't said that uncuffing makes her more powerful.

Ares struck a downed and wounded First Born who was already bleeding from Diana's attacks. 😐

What is the point of all of those First Born scans? What exactly are you trying to prove? Do they have absolutely any point outside of blatant lowballing? We all know Wonder Woman's Universe operates on a more toned down level but that doesn't change anything relatively.

I don't even understand why a Superman mark like yourself would attempt to do something like this. First Born is a lot stronger then Wonder Woman who is more or less on par with Superman.

LOL superman

Originally posted by abhilegend
Then you'd be wrong.

Doubt it.

Superman hasn't been shown to vastly out-power Diana while she has shown that her skills are capable of giving her the edge against opponents in his weight class.

This isn't Pre-Flashpoint we're talking about.

I'd also like to know when we started taking different writers into account for these showings?

Superman.

Originally posted by 80sBaby
Doubt it.

Superman hasn't been shown to vastly out-power Diana while she has shown that her skills are capable of giving her the edge against opponents in his weight class.

This isn't Pre-Flashpoint we're talking about.

😂

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I want to say Superman is he's the number one hero but the available evidence compels me to give it to Diana.

Their strength is on the same level regularly but she's far more skilled and if she brings her lasso and sword into the game, Clark doesn't have many counters. I'm assuming this dynamic will change sooner or later though.

Ares struck a downed and wounded First Born who was already bleeding from Diana's attacks. 😐

What is the point of all of those First Born scans? What exactly are you trying to prove? Do they have absolutely any point outside of blatant lowballing? We all know Wonder Woman's Universe operates on a more toned down level but that doesn't change anything relatively.

I don't even understand why a Superman mark like yourself would attempt to do something like this. First Born is a lot stronger then Wonder Woman who is more or less on par with Superman.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/11367812/SM-07-19.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/11367815/SM-07-20.jpg.html

http://i.imgur.com/KQC9Gds.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4nGh91j.jpg

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13067013/Superman_Annual-Zone-011.jpg.html

He IS more powerful than her. It has been made clear by Geoff Johns.

SM/WW is the outlier since Soule is writing a very OOC Superman in it

Hahaha, now one punch from WW which made FB bleed a little means he was wounded and downed? You are literally the worst. Guess you didn't see the scans where Ares stopped his punch and make him bleed more than Diana did.

How is she on par with Superman due to one showing under one writer?

To show Lions making him bleed. Diana is as strong as some lions it seems. And Azzarello is the only one who has shown that she gets some sort of power up, you can't use Soule's showings and overlap them on Azzarello's version.

Wonder Woman isn't on par with Superman in strength/power. That has been made clear under every writer save Soule.

Also Superman has already got out of her lasso and she doesn't use her sword on someone in character.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15217447/111.jpg.html

She isn't beating him in direct h2h. Now two way about it.

Originally posted by 80sBaby
I'd also like to know when we started taking different writers into account for these showings?

Originally posted by abhilegend
You mean the direct comparison making him more powerful than her at least four times in direct comparison?

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/11367812/SM-07-19.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/11367815/SM-07-20.jpg.html

http://i.imgur.com/KQC9Gds.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4nGh91j.jpg

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13067013/Superman_Annual-Zone-011.jpg.html

He IS more powerful than her. It has been made clear by Geoff Johns.

SM/WW is the outlier since Soule is writing a very OOC Superman in it

Yes, Superman is more powerful then -regular- Diana. He's more durable, probably has a strength edge and has other powers like heat vision. No one is really doubting that, at least I wasn't. That still doesn't mean he wins in a fight as some of their latest interactions have shown, especially against an unrestrained Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, now one punch from WW which made FB bleed a little means he was wounded and downed? You are literally the worst. Guess you didn't see the scans where Ares stopped his punch and make him bleed more than Diana did.

How is she on par with Superman due to one showing under one writer?

I misremembered him being on the ground but First Born was injured, already bleeding AND had beaten both Orion/Wonder Woman when Ares knocked him over and drew blood:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16502902/4566932.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16502904/1470551.jpg.html

And he didn't palm the punch or anything, more like misdirected it with superior skill. Not sure how that makes him look bad.

Yes, it's ME who's the worst, lol. That's why every person on two different boards things you're an irrational and dumb Superman fanboy, including the irrational and dumb Superman fanboys. 😂

Originally posted by abhilegend
To show Lions making him bleed. Diana is as strong as some lions it seems. And Azzarello is the only one who has shown that she gets some sort of power up, you can't use Soule's showings and overlap them on Azzarello's version.

So blatant lowballing was the only purpose? Lions making a -young- first born bleed have no relevance here.

Do you even see how twisted your logic is? Diana is as strong as some lions? How the f*ck does that even make any sense to you? It has been made abundantly clear that First Born is crazy strong and has ridiculous damage soak. And yes, him being young does make a difference as he's apparently bullet proof now:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16502903/4755003.jpg.html

Azzarello is the only one who has made her remove the bracers. That power up doesn't disappear because Soule rights a Wonder Woman that makes you uncomfortable. What kind of logic is that?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Wonder Woman isn't on par with Superman in strength/power. That has been made clear under every writer save Soule.

Also Superman has already got out of her lasso and she doesn't use her sword on someone in character.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15217447/111.jpg.html

She isn't beating him in direct h2h. Now two way about it.

Wonder Woman is slightly below Superman in strength to a varying degree even under Soule I'd wager. That doesn't change who wins the fight and the fact that this isn't regular Wonder Woman.

I don't know why she wouldn't as I've seen her swinging her sword around pretty often. She doesn't need to kill Clark, just win. He got out of it, yes, I'm not saying it's a one-shot win or something, it never has been. It's just something that would help immensely, especially if used right.

I think it's been made pretty clear recently that even regular Wonder Woman beating Superman in hand to hand is very much possible due to the sheer skill gap.