Originally posted by chasedown
krillin is actually weaker in the buu saga than he was in the cell saga because he stopped training. due to being totally inferior to other z warriors
Uh, Krillin never stopped training. At least it never said that he did.
Unless you're talking about GT, in which case...
Fight me irl.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Uh, Krillin never stopped training. At least it never said that he did.Unless you're talking about GT, in which case...
Fight me irl.
He did stop fighting. He wanted to be a family man after Marron was born. But... That doesn't change the fact that we don't know when he stopped training. But think about this... Krillin was stated by Toriyama himself to be more powerful then Tien in the Buu saga, who as far as we know, was constantly training, and able to use a powerful attack on (Either Super Buu or Kid Buu, I can't remember which.) which surprised even Gohan.
Originally posted by BloodRainIt's safe to assume that GT Krillin is not as strong as Buu Saga Krillin, as he's a human. End of GT Krillin beat Goku in a sparring match (though Goku was in Base Form and probably holding back), and also, it's worth noting that in the second DBZ movie, Tien was on Par with Base Trunks, and again, after this, Krillin in the Buu Saga was stated as being Stronger then Tien, by Akira Toriyama himself. On top of that, as I said before, we still have NO idea how long Krillin did train before Marron was born. He could've trained a full four years and then stopped when Marron was born.
Then he'd still lose to Frieza.
Originally posted by Jmanghan
I meant to put "Final Form Full-Power Frieza"
Well in that case... Frieza kills him just like he did on Namek.
Look at it this way: Battle of the Gods is canon and in it Goku before transforming is only at 80% of Frieza's full power. There is no way Krillin is as strong as Goku before he goes SSJ.
Originally posted by juggerman
Well in that case... Frieza kills him just like he did on Namek.Look at it this way: Battle of the Gods is canon and in it Goku before transforming is only at 80% of Frieza's full power. There is no way Krillin is as strong as Goku before he goes SSJ.
Then Akira Toriyama messed up the series, because it was STRONGLY believed before that, that base Goku was stronger then Full-Power Frieza.
Look how Pikkon took apart Cell, PERFECT Cell, and then Goku is on Par with him, and stronger then him in Super Saiyan Form. 1st Form Cell is above Frieza, Android 17, and 18, are above Frieza, every enemy past Frieza is stronger then him at Full Power. Also... "Frieza... Huh? In hindsight, not much of a foe... Perfect for the kids." Goku's words when Trunks and Goten were fighting Abo Cado. All evidence except for Battle of Gods, proves that Goku should be far ahead of Frieza in base form, even when he comes back from Yardrat, which is directly after he defeats Frieza, he proves that he could stomp Trunks' Super Saiyan Form anytime he wanted, and Trunks previously stomped Frieza AND King Cold in Super Saiyan Form. (Though there is evidence against my argument. For example, Final Form Cooler beat Goku senseless, even in 20x Kaioken, and that was Yardrat Goku, but when he went Super Saiyan, he viciously beat Cooler.)
Originally posted by Jmanghan
He did stop fighting. He wanted to be a family man after Marron was born. But... That doesn't change the fact that we don't know when he stopped training. But think about this... Krillin was stated by Toriyama himself to be more powerful then Tien in the Buu saga, who as far as we know, was constantly training, and able to use a powerful attack on (Either Super Buu or Kid Buu, I can't remember which.) which surprised even Gohan.
That was NEVER stated. Krillin stopped training for an unknown period, but resumed training when he heard about the tournament, which means he trained for at least six whole months, which could be argued to put him back in his peak AT LEAST.
Tien was ALWAYS stronger than Krillin. Even during the Cell saga. This could be simply because Tri beam is far superior to Kamehameha in terms of potency, but either way, he was able to damage second form Cell, someone who Krillin couldn't even damage in his first form. In fact, Krillin was no match for even the androids, who's power level stays the same or lowers over time. Krillin was still weaker than 18 in the Buu saga, meaning that he was arguably at the same level as he was in the Cell saga. Tien is leagues above both of them, including 18.
Originally posted by juggerman
Well in that case... Frieza kills him just like he did on Namek.Look at it this way: Battle of the Gods is canon and in it Goku before transforming is only at 80% of Frieza's full power. There is no way Krillin is as strong as Goku before he goes SSJ.
That's not true.
Bills stated "As you are now, I don't think you could beat Frieza. It seems you can power up though, and even transform into a Super Saiyan."
Goku was in base form and not exerting any ki when Bills made this statement. He was not charging his ki, exerting any, or producing an aura even.
The statement implies that he knew Goku was stronger than the ki he felt from him AND could still go Super Saiyan after that.
Krillin was able to at least compete with the Cell jr.'s on the same level that Piccolo was. While Yamcha was getting shit-stomped, Krillin, Piccolo and Tien were all at least holding their grounds for a few moments. Going by power scaling, Krillin was much stronger at this point then he was on Namek. On Namek, Krillin was actually able to land Kienzan on Second form Frieza. It only cut his tail off, but in the Cell saga, he should have been able to compete with around first form Cell, meaning he was able to at least compete with Super Saiyan Goku when he first came back to Earth. The same one who was stronger than Trunks, who shat on a stronger version of Frieza.
This can be chocked up as PIS, however I still think Krillin should be around the level of Frieza in his final form. However, I still think that Krillin would win just because of his Taiyoken/Kienzan combo.
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Then Akira Toriyama messed up the series, because it was STRONGLY believed before that, that base Goku was stronger then Full-Power Frieza.Look how Pikkon took apart Cell, PERFECT Cell, and then Goku is on Par with him, and stronger then him in Super Saiyan Form. 1st Form Cell is above Frieza, Android 17, and 18, are above Frieza, every enemy past Frieza is stronger then him at Full Power. Also... "Frieza... Huh? In hindsight, not much of a foe... Perfect for the kids." Goku's words when Trunks and Goten were fighting Abo Cado. All evidence except for Battle of Gods, proves that Goku should be far ahead of Frieza in base form, even when he comes back from Yardrat, which is directly after he defeats Frieza, he proves that he could stomp Trunks' Super Saiyan Form anytime he wanted, and Trunks previously stomped Frieza AND King Cold in Super Saiyan Form. (Though there is evidence against my argument. For example, Final Form Cooler beat Goku senseless, even in 20x Kaioken, and that was Yardrat Goku, but when he went Super Saiyan, he viciously beat Cooler.)
Pikkon was filler and not canon. That whole thing was not canon so we cannot apply it here
Also I don't think the movie with Tarble was canon either. The only movie that is considered canon by the creator himself is BotG
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
That's not true.Bills stated "As you are now, I don't think you could beat Frieza. It seems you can power up though, and even transform into a Super Saiyan."
Goku was in base form and not exerting any ki when Bills made this statement. He was not charging his ki, exerting any, or producing an aura even.
The statement implies that he knew Goku was stronger than the ki he felt from him AND could still go Super Saiyan after that.
Krillin was able to at least compete with the Cell jr.'s on the same level that Piccolo was. While Yamcha was getting shit-stomped, Krillin, Piccolo and Tien were all at least holding their grounds for a few moments. Going by power scaling, Krillin was much stronger at this point then he was on Namek. On Namek, Krillin was actually able to land Kienzan on Second form Frieza. It only cut his tail off, but in the Cell saga, he should have been able to compete with around first form Cell, meaning he was able to at least compete with Super Saiyan Goku when he first came back to Earth. The same one who was stronger than Trunks, who shat on a stronger version of Frieza.
This can be chocked up as PIS, however I still think Krillin should be around the level of Frieza in his final form. However, I still think that Krillin would win just because of his Taiyoken/Kienzan combo.
Because he could power up does not mean he could surpass Frieza in power without transforming. I thought there was something stated about him not being as storng as Frieza until he transformed but I could be wrong about this
The Cell Jrs were toying with them. They were giggling and joking around iirc so him holding up for a bit doesn't mean he was strong.
There is no reason at all to believe he could compete with any SSJ or first form Cell. That's just silly
He was nowhere near Frieza's level. If he could pull of that combo then he has a shot but 99 times out of 100 he dies a horrible death
Originally posted by juggerman
Pikkon was filler and not canon. That whole thing was not canon so we cannot apply it hereAlso I don't think the movie with Tarble was canon either. The only movie that is considered canon by the creator himself is BotG
You're right about Pikkon.
However, the DBZ movies were all cannon, just not timeline cannon. Other than the return of cooler movie and bio broly, that is. The rest of them were created by Akira Toriyama, and had a large part in the story as what-if scenario's, that pretty much just introduced new characters and stories.
They were still cannon, power level-wise. Not the filler, just to be clear. The movies. And they were only cannon to the anime anyways.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You're right about Pikkon.However, the DBZ movies were all cannon, just not timeline cannon. Other than the return of cooler movie and bio broly, that is. The rest of them were created by Akira Toriyama, and had a large part in the story as what-if scenario's, that pretty much just introduced new characters and stories.
They were still cannon, power level-wise. Not the filler, just to be clear. The movies. And they were only cannon to the anime anyways.
That's the first I'm hearing about movies being canon.
Well yeah the filler was canon to the anime but normally we go by manga canon right? That's what I figured this was based on mostly.