Where would Lord Dracula tier?

Originally posted by zopzop
And Cyclops and Wolverine and Nightcrawler (I think).

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@zopzop

Btw, you and Stoic are making some great points; Drac has never demostrated the power you mentioned that is inherent to Heralds (counterpoint though; Doom is a Low Herald and lacks many of the feats you mentioned)...

But he does have some excellent combat feats...

I am torn between him being Low Herald to High Meta to be honest...

If he is High Meta, he might be at the top (or atleast near the top) of that tier...

Some here say that maybe he's a Mid Herald, but (IMHO) he lacks the raw power that the characters on that level possess...

Dracula was amped due to drinking Sif's blood against Thor anyway.

😬

@zopzop

That link isnt opening for me for some reason...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@zopzop

That link isnt opening for me for some reason...

Thanks!

🙂

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thanks!

🙂

Originally posted by zopzop

@Sin I AM

I thought you said Drac beating Colossus was laughable? He seems to be doing just fine against multiple Xmen...

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Edit: You're the one who voted him for Low Meta...arent you?

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Originally posted by Stoic
He durability is human

But he has plenty of shields, including automatic ones.

Firstt off he didn't beat him he temp bfred him. And second that's classic drac not current. Plus that's a young piotr.

Young Piotro was powerful and we didn't see him after Draculas attack for a bit. It's possible he was koed.

Hmmm...

So far Drac being High Meta has the lions share of votes...

The more I think about it, the more I think zopzop is right; Dracs overall power level is in line with what you'd expect from a High Meta, but given his versatility, he is a bad matchup for a significant portion of the Low Heralds, and is fully capable of giving certain Mid and High Heralds problems with the right matchup...

However, this has got me thinking that Dr Doom should be a High Meta as well...

Doom, just like Drac, is very versatile and can give some Heralds problems, but the fact remains that Doom lacks the extreme displays of raw power that you typically see from true Herald level characters...

Edit: You can add Iron Man to that list of characters that has some good combat feats, can give some Heralds problems, but lacks the raw displays of power that you expect to see from true Heralds...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Hmmm...

So far Drac being High Meta has the lions share of votes...

The more I think about it, the more I think zopzop is right; Dracs overall power level is in line with what you'd expect from a High Meta, but given his versatility, he is a bad matchup for a significant portion of the Low Heralds, and is fully capable of giving certain Mid and High Heralds problems with the right matchup...

However, this has got me thinking that Dr Doom should be a High Meta as well...

Doom, just like Drac, is very versatile and can give some Heralds problems, but the fact remains that Doom lacks the extreme displays of raw power that you typically see from true Herald level characters...

Edit: You can add Iron Man to that list of characters that has some good combat feats, can give some Heralds problems, but lacks the raw displays of power that you expect to see from true Heralds...

People severely underestimate what it means to be "Herald" level, even low herald. I gave examples of what beings in that Tier do and Doom/Dracula/Iron Man do not make the list.

People also forget, writers job herald level characters MIGHTILY otherwise they would have no story.

Forget planet busting or whatever, imagine the raw power it takes to lift Manhattan Island clean into orbit. Imagine the raw power it takes to travel between planets/solar systems/galaxies (even light speed won't cut it). Imagine what it takes to survive in space indefinitely, survive inside stellar cores, and withstand black holes.

Originally posted by zopzop
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People severely underestimate what it means to be "Herald" level, even low herald. I gave examples of what beings in that Tier do and Doom/Dracula/Iron Man do not make the list.

People also forget, writers job herald level characters MIGHTILY otherwise they would have no story.

Forget planet busting or whatever, imagine the raw power it takes to lift Manhattan Island clean into orbit. Imagine the raw power it takes to travel between planets/solar systems/galaxies (even light speed won't cut it). Imagine what it takes to survive in space indefinitely, survive inside stellar cores, and withstand black holes.

100% agree! 🙂

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Originally posted by zopzop
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People severely underestimate what it means to be "Herald" level, even low herald. I gave examples of what beings in that Tier do and Doom/Dracula/Iron Man do not make the list.

People also forget, writers job herald level characters MIGHTILY otherwise they would have no story.

Forget planet busting or whatever, imagine the raw power it takes to lift Manhattan Island clean into orbit. Imagine the raw power it takes to travel between planets/solar systems/galaxies (even light speed won't cut it). Imagine what it takes to survive in space indefinitely, survive inside stellar cores, and withstand black holes.

So where would you rate someone like Martian Manhunter who has never done any of those things? What about Superboy? Where would you rank him? In order to be a Herald, you have to do all of that stuff huh? I guess that throws out 99% of DCNU characters. Hell, people like Zeus and High Father would be low metas using this type of argument. That would put Herc in a different tier than most Skyfathers and trans characters. Thanos for example is in the tier hes in mainly because of his fights. Durability doesn't equate to placement or Classic Jugs, Superman, Thor, and Hulk would be abstracts.

Originally posted by carver9
So where would you rate someone like Martian Manhunter who has never done any of those things? What about Superboy? Where would you rank him?

In order to be a Herald, you have to do all of that stuff huh? I guess that throws out 99% of DCNU characters. Hell, people like Zeus and High Father would be low metas using this type of argument. That would put Herc in a different tier than most Skyfathers and trans characters. Thanos for example is in the tier hes in mainly because of his fights. Durability doesn't equate to placement or Classic Jugs, Superman, Thor, and Hulk would be abstracts.

Now look at this : If there was an emergency on Mars and the Avengers were stranded there in desperate need of back up, how would the Hulk, who is on Earth, get there for the assist? He couldn't right? But Jack or Glads could.

Hulk is High Herald when it comes to physical stats (strength/stamina/durability) ONLY.

Originally posted by zopzop

I'm pretty sure MM has met at least some of those requirements to be considered a herald level being.

I see your objection. There are certain characters, like say Hulk, that have high herald level durability/stamina/strength but lack a true herald's versatility. Can Hulk beat Jack of Hearts (a low herald)? Hell yes. Can Hulk beat Gladiator? Hell yes.

Now look at this : If there was an emergency on Mars and the Avengers were stranded there in desperate need of back up, how would the Hulk, who is on Earth, get there for the assist? He couldn't right? But Jack or Glads could.

Hulk is High Herald when it comes to physical stats (strength/stamina/durability) ONLY. [/B]

So God Like Cable isn't a Herald? I'm asking.because he wouldnt be able to get there either? I don't think Black Bolt can breath/survive in space as well. I know Hulk can and I see your point but flight (lol) doesn't determine a power level. Wonder Woman also needs an oxegen mask, does she not qualify as a Herald?

Also Zop, show me these Martian Manhunter fts.

Originally posted by carver9
So God Like Cable isn't a Herald? I'm asking.because he wouldnt be able to get there either? I don't think Black Bolt can breath/survive in space as well. I know Hulk can and I see your point but flight (lol) doesn't determine a power level. Wonder Woman also needs an oxegen mask, does she not qualify as a Herald?

Let me try this again. Certain characters like Hulk, for example, are CLEARLY (high) herald when it comes to certain abilities, like strength/stamina/durability. But they are LACKING in other areas.

Would you say Hulk has herald level travel speed (ie light speed and faster)? Can the transport himself between dimensions? Etc....

Originally posted by carver9
Also Zop, show me these Martian Manhunter fts.

Some of those are out of context, but its a good respect thread IMO.

Originally posted by zopzop
You're not understanding me Carver.

Let me try this again. Certain characters like Hulk, for example, are CLEARLY (high) herald when it comes to certain abilities, like strength/stamina/durability. But they are LACKING in other areas.

Would you say Hulk has herald level travel speed (ie light speed and faster)? Can the transport himself between dimensions? Etc....

But Orion, Black Adam, and Captain Marvel has never shown FTL travel speed. Martian Manhunter didn't as well. Your argument is flawed my friend. I clearly understand you but you are not making sense.