Orbalisk Bane vs. TCW Maul, Raskta Lsu, and Ki Adi Mundi

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ah, this old argument.

For my part, I generally don't entertain the idea that any character can duplicate a nexus-feat outside a nexus unless proven otherwise.

/discussion

It does prove that the 'nexus' was considerable, Neph.

Can't rule out the nexus; therefore, the feat is inadmissable?

I see what you're saying, truly. But it does raise some problems. We can't argue characters on a consistent basis (or barely as it is) without considering them as they are shown. If most or all of their performances are Nexus-driven, then I'm not sure how we can reconcile or sidestep this without somehow giving both parties a "nexus/peak condition" buff every thread and just argue their highest end feats.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
It proves the power of the energy which is powerful enough for me to reasonably dismiss any of your speculation without proof.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ah, this old argument.

For my part, I generally don't entertain the idea that any character can duplicate a nexus-feat outside a nexus unless proven otherwise.

/discussion

It does prove that the 'nexus' was considerable, Neph.

I didn't say Bane could duplicate the feat, I said he could perform a slightly lesser version of the feat. As in he disintegrates a few less technobeasts. Which is still a far greater feat than what Dooku is capable of. I simply don't understand how someone could suggest he needed the nexus to perform the feat considering he didn't strain to do it, in fact he continued to fight for an hour afterwards and replicated the feat during that time.

If he can disintegrate 12 technobeasts without much effort with a nexus, then why can he not disintegrate a smaller number without one, or disintegrate the same amount by straining.

Bane being able to sense it from kilometers away doesn't prove its considerable. Force Users can sense concentrations of energy from halfway across the planet if they want to.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Can't rule out the nexus; therefore, the feat is inadmissable?

I see what you're saying, truly. But it does raise some problems. We can't argue characters on a consistent basis (or barely as it is) without considering them as they are shown. If most or all of their performances are Nexus-driven, then I'm not sure how we can reconcile or sidestep this without somehow giving both parties a "nexus/peak condition" buff every thread and just argue their highest end feats.

It certainly complicates things for someone favoring a character with limited feats or a character whose majority of feats are on nexuses, but I see no reason to manipulate the rules of debate for them favorably.

I would and have apply the same rules to characters like Sidious. The obvious difference being that Sidious has a zillion feats to draw on; I don't feel the pinch for my charity.

Nephthys
If he can disintegrate 12 technobeasts without much effort with a nexus, then why can he not disintegrate a smaller number without one, or disintegrate the same amount by straining.

If Sidious can telepathically subjugate TWENTY BILLION PEOPLE across time and space for an undetermined period of time, then why can't he mindrape ONE PERSON face-to-face?

You would and have argued that Sidious can't do such a thing even though such a feat would be many orders of magnitude less than what he has already canonically accomplished. And your reason, I believe, is almost always: well he hasn't shown the ability to do so.

As usual, I see no reason to be charitable. We must try to objectively apply standards here.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It certainly complicates things for someone favoring a character with limited feats or a character whose majority of feats are on nexuses, but I see no reason to manipulate the rules of debate for them favorably.

I would and have apply the same rules to characters like Sidious. The obvious difference being that Sidious has a zillion feats to draw on; I don't feel the pinch for my charity.

My biggest issue is when feats get thrown out unceremoniously "because Nexus", but we don't automatically throw out Sidious feats that occur after he and his master nudged the Force in the favor of the Dark Side.

Unless of course you think that the ritual had no benefit for Sidious and his powers during his stealth war with the Jedi.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
If Sidious can telepathically subjugate [b]TWENTY BILLION PEOPLE across time and space for an undetermined period of time, then why can't he mindrape ONE PERSON face-to-face?

You would and have argued that Sidious can't do such a thing even though such a feat would be many orders of magnitude less than what he has already canonically accomplished. And your reason, I believe, is almost always: well he hasn't shown the ability to do so.

As usual, I see no reason to be charitable. We must try to objectively apply standards here. [/B]

Completely different circumstances. Basically nothing to do with this discussion.

When did I suggest Sidious couldn't mindrape a single person? Obviously he ****ing can. Depending upon the person of course. He mindwiped a few million on Coruscant. If I did say that then Past Me is a bigger retard than I thought.

My point stands. Please don't bring past shit into this.

The problem is, speculation that Palpatine could scorch dark side prophets to bones without the nexus energy provided by the location they were in would be rejected by the users supporting such speculation when it's favoring Bane, Vitiate, Kun etc., which results in the mighty double standard.

Nope. I have no problem with Sidious doing that.

Nephthys
Completely different circumstances. Basically nothing to do with this discussion.

When did I suggest Sidious couldn't mindrape a single person? Obviously he ****ing can. Depending upon the person of course. He mindwiped a few million on Coruscant. If I did say that then Past Me is a bigger retard than I thought.

My point stands. Please don't bring past shit into this.

I bring it up to demonstrate why I refuse to adhere to different standards. We must apply standards for all, my child.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
My biggest issue is when feats get thrown out unceremoniously "because Nexus", but we don't automatically throw out Sidious feats that occur after he and his master nudged the Force in the favor of the Dark Side.

Unless of course you think that the ritual had no benefit for Sidious and his powers during his stealth war with the Jedi.

The only effect of the ritual was to diminish Jedi foresight. Jedi combat powers were not known to have suffered nor were Sith combat powers known to have been enhanced.

In contrast, we know planetary, locational nexuses enhance combat techniques.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nope. I have no problem with Sidious doing that.

Nyax effortlessly manipulated huge ships by the aid if the nexus on Coruscant; should we say he can manipulate the same ships with perhaps slightly more difficulty, then?

I'm not buying it.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not necessarily referring to you, but I'm sure quite a few users do.

Nyax effortlessly manipulated huge ships by the aid if the nexus on Coruscant; should we say he can manipulate the same ships with perhaps slightly more difficulty, then?

I'm not buying it.

Ah, the jungle bunny returneth. Welcome back.

Anyway, you're giving up? I thought you people were supposed to have good stamina? You know, picking cotton, working fields, making fatherless babies and all.

Someone's been reading the recent scandal in the Comic Book Vs. section...

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
Ah, the jungle bunny returneth. Welcome back.

Anyway, you're giving up? I thought you people were supposed to have good stamina? You know, picking cotton, working fields, making fatherless babies and all.

😖hifty:

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I bring it up to demonstrate why I refuse to adhere to different standards. We must apply standards for all, my child.

Ok, but that's not a reason for why we shouldn't believe Bane could accomplish the feat without the 'nexus' were he to actually put effort into it or that he could perform it to a lesser extent. Nexus' aren't that powerful.

On the other hand, rituals notoriously don't represent the actual strength of those involved. Banes Force Storm ritual would have scorched an entire planet with only 20 Sith's help. Bane + 20 Sith couldn't scorch a planet without a ritual. Likewise Sidious and Plagueis couldn't tip the Force, Vitiate couldn't absorb the universe and Sidious can't mindrape 20 billion dudes. I don't accept Sidious being able to bust out that level of telepathy whenever he wants because of the possibility of a ritual and because he did it over 20ish years.

If Sidious had done that shit on a nexus, with a flick of his wrist then yeah I'd say he could do that with a bit more effort or to a slightly lesser extent. I'm not pulling double standards imo.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
Ah, the jungle bunny returneth. Welcome back.

Anyway, you're giving up? I thought you people were supposed to have good stamina? You know, picking cotton, working fields, making fatherless babies and all.

Just so you know, I reported you. So if you're only joking maybe you should make that clear now.

Correct: feats attributable to rituals and nexuses don't represent the immediately available strength of any character.

And you'll notice I didn't say Sidious could bust out 20-billion-people-mind-raping-telepathy at whim. I asked you if he could mindrape one person on the fly.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Correct: feats attributable to rituals and nexuses don't represent the immediately available strength of any character.

And you'll notice I didn't say Sidious could bust out 20-billion-people-mind-raping-telepathy at whim. I asked you if he could mindrape one person on the fly.

Rituals don't, nexuses just slightly enhance a characters abilities. Like how Vjun amped Dooku enough to give a slightly better fight to Yoda than he did in AotC. Nexuses aren't as big of a deal as you make them out to be.

And I said that he could.

When Cognus led a strike team against Bane, didn't Bane disintegrate a few mooks? I don't remember if he did or not, but his mansion wasn't a nexus of any sort.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane senses the dark side there, but its hardly a nexus.

Bane walks into the room and his senses are overwhelmed by a massive concentration of dark side energy. 😬

Also--Tython is already a potent Force Nexus regardless.