Bills (DBZBOTG) & Asura vs. Thanos & Darkseid

Originally posted by ZebusKing

No, you said twice the Earth's radius, here's your post word for word

Even if you want to use diameter and double or even triple it, it's still no where near light speed.

The timeframe can be deduced by the IT which was used before the blast reached a high enough altitude and by the time Goku's teleportation was finished and he was behind Cell, it had already traveled that far. One earth diameter+ in an instant.

Instant transmission time has always varied. In the anime it usually takes a few seconds.

There isn't anyway to tell how long it takes in the manga since no time frame is ever given. It's able to cover light years in a short time because it's teleportation.

I watched the movie, it said it would take them 26 minutes to get to King Kai's planet but never said how far it was.

They lived in a nebula in an unknown part of space and flew all the way to the otherworld, which exists above the galaxies and living world.

I don’t know how that’s not massively ftl in your world because no matter how you look at it, they flew far very very very very far in less than half an hour.

TBH You have a pretty bad track record in this thread and aren't in any position to talk. Your Thanos wankery from a few pages ago was a bust, then you brought up some nonsense about Galactus destroying a galaxy in Annihilation without any proof.

Dragon Ball characters were moving around at fraction of a second speeds early on, I get that, but isn't relevant to a technique that has little to do with physical ability.

There's also Thanos surviving Omega's all-out blast but that's kind of too much for poor 'Seid. I was also saying that the blast was MFTL, not the teleportation itself since it's just teleportation. Thanos >>> Bills > Asura > Darkseid

In order to understand Thanos' strength level, let's take a look at his background.

First off: He is an eternal.
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Eternals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternals_%28comics%29

An average Eternal start off lifting 15 tons. Immune to poison, disease, and aging, almost impossible to kill. Extreme control over their bodies, capable of harnessing cosmic energy and infusing it through their bodies, healing internal wounds, etc..

So even blasting their bodies into vapor, they can return.

All eternals can:

Project damaging blasts and/or blinding flashes of energy from their eyes and hands.
Fly (average top speed 600 mph) and levitate others.
Read minds.
Generate illusions.
Teleport vast distances, though doing so leaves most Eternals momentarily fatigued or dazed.
Transmute objects, altering both their shape and composition. This ability is very taxing to most Eternals.

Now that we know the baseline Eternal (average citizen), let's take a look at how Thanos was, before his first death:
* He is a mutant. Picture how tough Colossus is compared to a regular human, this is how Thanos is to a regular Eternal in terms of strength and durability.
* He took his already incredible strength and durability, and enhanced it even further using technology.

Before he died and was reborn, he easily took out both Thor and the Thing at the same time, and this is classic Thor, the one that drove off Galactus with his godblast. The only way he was temporarily defeated was that he was turned to stone.

His latest incarnation has had one, possibly two upgrades. First upgrade was being resurrected by Death; Death further enhanced his existing power and stripped away the technological implants (he grew in strength enough that they were no longer necessary) so that he could accomplish a very important mission, which was to extinguish half the population in the universe. Death is the one that granted him this newfound power. Thanos himself didn't know the full extent to which he had become boosted, which is one of the reasons that he sought to test himself against the likes of Odin and Tyrant.

His second possible upgrade (unverified) was when his body was destroyed when he took control of the Heart of the Infinite (THOTU as some call it). He later recreated his body using infinite power; he could have granted himself further strength and durability, nobody knows for certain.

Now these are all just baseline upgrades. Let's not forget the fact that he originally could amp up his strength and durability using cosmic energies, part of his inheritance as an Eternal, and let's not forget that he was a mutant Eternal on top of that, and was probably the top energy manipulator amongst the Eternals. To top that off, he also has control of another source of energy, seemingly granted to him from Death herself, as many times people can see that mistress Death appears to have fueled his strength even further (for example Aegis and Tenebrous mention Death as his master and can see her energies around him).

So you have the existing powerhouse body that was already way above baseline class 100, upgraded through technology, then upgraded yet again, then possibly upgraded again after that, augmentable with cosmic energy (which he possesses even greater control over than Silver Surfer). That is why they say that his strength is potentially limitless or enhanced to an unknown degree because there is no accurate measurement for the level of strength that he possesses.

Found this in someone else's argument about Thanos' power. I can tell you Ausra should just go and fight Darkseid. Bills is the only chance to bring this down on the strict fact that his origins are very vague. And unless he surprises us with his physical strength Bills' only chance is to destroy Thanos with energy attacks as they seem to many times stronger than DBZ character's physical powers. But even so. Thanos probably wins.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Yeah, that was my bad was kind of rushed. I actually meant radius like I said in my original post and you can clearly see it in the scan. So at least one earth diameter and that's not up for discussion.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Except there would have to be a timeframe for you to claim that.

The timeframe can be deduced by the IT which was used before the blast reached a high enough altitude and by the time Goku's teleportation was finished and he was behind Cell, it had already traveled that far. One earth diameter+ in an instant.

Except that there wasn't. I'm not talking about Goku locking on the a ki signal. I'm talking about the time frame between when he dematerlizes and rematerlizes. The point where he literally blinks away and reapears. That has no time frame and you're making the assumption that it's instant.

It Cell fires a blast at Goku. And Goku instant transmissions, and then blast reaches 2x Earth's diameter. The time between Goku disappearing and reappearing is unknown, if it took a second you'd still be a far cry away from light speed.

Anime isn't canon, but there's no time frame in the manga. So no, it isn't anywhere close to light if that's what you're going off of.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
It's teleportation like you said. It's virtually instant.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
They lived in a nebula in an unknown part of space and flew all the way to the otherworld, which exists above the galaxies and living world.

I don’t know how that’s not massively ftl in your world because no matter how you look at it, they flew far very very very very far in less than half an hour.

Also

http://kissanime.com/Anime/Dragon-Ball-Z-Movie-14-Battle-of-Gods/Movie-1080p?id=51859

Watch at 1:17:29

They are CLEARLY Teleporting home.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Maybe check your shit before you call out other people for telling you facts.

That's NOT Galactus' attack, they're saying that the Annihilation Wave across the galaxy was destroyed. Not that Galactus let loose a galaxy destroying attack and Thanos was in the middle of it.

You really need to learn how to read.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
It's relevant to prove that when Piccolo blew up the moon the timeframe actually less than a second or else you want to claim that these super fast dudes would just stand there for like 10 seconds and stare at something mid-fight.

Power scaling fails with DBZ

Originally posted by TheTyrant
There's also Thanos surviving Omega's all-out blast but that's kind of too much for poor 'Seid. I was also saying that the blast was MFTL, not the teleportation itself since it's just teleportation. Thanos >>> Bills > Asura > Darkseid

Oh wait I forgot..you hate context, I should turn this into a drinking game. Every time you bullsh(t or post something out of context I take a shot, although at rate I'll die of alcohol poisoning..

Originally posted by TheTyrant
That's different. We know for certain that characters past a certain point are capable of planet busting because of them getting substantially more powerful every few chapters due to the various power-ups and boosts. Frieza survived the explosion of a planet, yet was cut by Trunks' swords which in turn shattered on Android 18's skin. Therefore, we can use clear-as-day [b]powerscaling to say that they had so and so durability and so and so destructive capacity. It's a linear manga while characters like Thor and Superman have had the great majority of their writers portray them as not being ftl or capable of snuffing out a planet.

Nice red herring you have there. I mean a "vast majority" of ki blasts throughout DBZ haven't planet busted, whereas only a few have, yet we accept DBZ chars are planet busters without any issue

Why should comics be analysed an differently than any other fiction where we focus on the higher end spectrum of feats now?

You just tried to use the outlier card on Roshi's feat...

Because no feat of that magnitude is replicated throughout Part 1 Dragon Ball

So you're basically saying that more powerful DBZ characters weren't necessarily faster as well? So Roshi's Kamehameha that destroyed the moon could tag, say, Buuhan?

Holy **** you're stupid

While they are, indeed, faster, to say they're under a higher classification of speed without feats to back it is a baseless assumption

You don't understand. I was saying the BLAST was mftl, not the teleportation itself. A teleportation is teleportation and I realize that. The blast traveled that far within the teleportation interval was the point. It's really simple and it's a good indicater of the timespan since no actual timeframe was given. [/B]

You said it happened in the duration he teleported which has been used to teleport across many lightyears instantly

You realise teleportation is just ignoring/bypassing space/time to cross distance in any case (in other words, you're not covering distance over any timeframe)

Ergo, the blast would still be high end sub relativistic

Focus people. Bills, Asura vs Thanos and Darkseid.

Bills is faster then light in how fast he travels around the universe (and maybe he slips into subspace or who dafuq knows?) and we haven't seen him at peak power. <-- This is all we know

I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. Just stop arguing feats and powers of other Dragon Ball Z characters.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Focus people. Bills, Asura vs Thanos and Darkseid.

Bills is faster then light in how fast he travels around the universe (and maybe he slips into subspace or who dafuq knows?) and we haven't seen him at peak power. <-- This is all we know

I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. Just stop arguing feats and powers of other Dragon Ball Z characters.

Also, if you noticed, Bills usually rides on Whis' back. It looks like Whis is the one teleporting and Bills going along for the ride.

Originally posted by ZebusKing
If he slips into sub space then how the hell did he get to King Kai's planet in another dimension?

Also, if you noticed, Bills usually rides on Whis' back. It looks like Whis is the one teleporting and Bills going along for the ride.

Well there you go.

Originally posted by ZebusKing

That's NOT Galactus' attack, they're saying that the Annihilation Wave across the galaxy was destroyed. Not that Galactus let loose a galaxy destroying attack and Thanos was in the middle of it.

You really need to learn how to read.

Originally posted by ZebusKing
That's NOT Galactus' attack, they're saying that the Annihilation Wave across the galaxy was destroyed. Not that Galactus let loose a galaxy destroying attack and Thanos was in the middle of it.

You really need to learn how to read.

Originally posted by ZebusKing

You mean when Thanos admitted that he only survived because of 3 force fields and his own armor, then admitted he wouldn't have survive 2 minutes if the fight continued...

Oh wait I forgot..you hate context, I should turn this into a drinking game. Every time you bullsh(t or post something out of context I take a shot, although at rate I'll die of alcohol poisoning..

Scroll down to june 8;

https://twitter.com/Herms98

Bills & Whis may only be FTL in the same sense as those Freeza goons traveling on their space pods.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Re-read the comic. Thanos' monologue clearly mentions that Galactus' power swept the galaxy clean, not that it only swept the Annihilation Wave clean. The HMR blast was blowing up star systems while propagating across the galaxy, so why its offensive output should only be limited to the Annihilation Wave is beyond me.

Omega was stated to be twice as powerful as Galactus. And considering that there really isn't anything in the DBverse on par with a being like Galactus, I don't see your point.

THIS WAS CONFIRMED IN ANNIHILATION

No where in ANY comic does it state Galactus destroyed a galaxy. It stated that when Annihilation Wave across the galaxy was swept clean, NOT BY GALACTUS NUKING THE GALAXY.

Also where does it state that Omega is 2x as powerful as Galactus? I'm reading Infinity Abyss right now on Marvel Unlimited and Genis Vell states that Omega's power dwarfs the original, not that he's 2x as powerful.

More importantly, where does it state that Omega blasted Thanos at full power? Which someone claimed earlier? Oh yeah it never did

Thanos fanboys are almost as bad as DBZ fanboys when it comes to making sh*t up.

In that scan it said it destroyed 3 and still hadn't stopped or slowed down. The later comics referencing say it continued throughout the galaxy.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
In that scan it said it destroyed 3 and still hadn't stopped or slowed down. The later comics referencing say it continued throughout the galaxy.

What dumbasses are trying to imply is that Galactus blast single handedly destroyed the Annihilation Wave, which is utter horse shit.

What actually happened was that Galactus destroyed the Annihilation Wave within a few solar systems. . The rest of the Annihilation Wave signed a treaty to back off the Kree.

Originally posted by ZebusKing

Except that there wasn't. I'm not talking about Goku locking on the a ki signal. I'm talking about the time frame between when he dematerlizes and rematerlizes. The point where he literally blinks away and reapears. That has no time frame and you're making the assumption that it's instant.

Even if you say it's not an instant, its duration (as in dematerialization and rematerialization) sure as Hell is much less than a second.

there's another one. In the panel you can clearly see the blast hit the moon as soon as it leaves Piccolo's hand (indicated by the light). All of it in one panel meaning it happens at that very moment. That's as clear-cut as it can get no matter how much you want to deny it.

It Cell fires a blast at Goku. And Goku instant transmissions, and then blast reaches 2x Earth's diameter. The time between Goku disappearing and reappearing is unknown, if it took a second you'd still be a far cry away from light speed.

Anime isn't canon, but there's no time frame in the manga. So no, it isn't anywhere close to light if that's what you're going off of.

Except that it isn't, and there isn't anything in the manga to support this.

Rewatch the movie. Whis show that they're planet was very far from Earth. If they had flown to the Earth from their planet in a half hour, you may have had an argument on your hands.

Also

http://kissanime.com/Anime/Dragon-Ball-Z-Movie-14-Battle-of-Gods/Movie-1080p?id=51859

Watch at 1:17:29

They are CLEARLY Teleporting home.

There ya go.

That's NOT Galactus' attack, they're saying that the Annihilation Wave across the galaxy was destroyed. Not that Galactus let loose a galaxy destroying attack and Thanos was in the middle of it.

You really need to learn how to read.

"... And the galaxy swept clean" not "the galaxy swept clean of the Annihilation wave" Learn to comprehend.

Power scaling fails with DBZ

Before you say anything though, I'll tell you there's this thing called 'attack potency' which is different than 'area of effect.' Meaning that Frieza's blast that destroyed Vegeta (referring to the planet here) wouldn't hurt someone like Cell despite the fact that nobody in Cell saga actually destroyed a planet. The characters are said to have full control of their ki meaning they can control the aoe effect but still do the damage necessary with great potency.

You mean when Thanos admitted that he only survived because of 3 force fields and his own armor, then admitted he wouldn't have survive 2 minutes if the fight continued...

Originally posted by StealthRanger
[B]Nice red herring you have there. I mean a "vast majority" of ki blasts throughout DBZ haven't planet busted, whereas only a few have, yet we accept DBZ chars are planet busters without any issue

Why should comics be analysed an differently than any other fiction where we focus on the higher end spectrum of feats now?

A herald level character isn't someone who can run at billions of times faster than light and destroy solar systems. That's not how the tiering works and you can go ask the people at the comic section. I used to post there all the time.

Because no feat of that magnitude is replicated throughout Part 1 Dragon Ball

Holy **** you're stupid

While they are, indeed, faster, to say they're under a higher classification of speed without feats to back it is a baseless assumption

Like how much more clear-cut than this can you get?

It reached the moon in the SAME PANEL as it was fired.

You said it happened in the duration he teleported which has been used to teleport across many lightyears instantly

You realise teleportation is just ignoring/bypassing space/time to cross distance in any case (in other words, you're not covering distance over any timeframe)

Even saying that teleportation isn't instantaneous (which is a retarded thing to claim, but hey you're here to downplay)

Ergo, the blast would still be high end sub relativistic

the time interval wouldn't be a second like you're trying to say here. It'd be way less unless you want to say that Goku would have a better time actually flying than teleporting in short-ranged combat. A second would be a long time for even supersonic characters. Do you not understand that?

Also,

that's MFTL :^)

Originally posted by TheTyrant
[B]Because they are? Frieza's blast that destroyed planet vegeta would never hurt, say, Super Perfect Cell yet a blast that only made a crater on the earth managed to completely vaporize him.

Exactly my point. High end showings define characters for any medium be it comics, anime, manga, novels, video games for the sake of vs debating

The comic characters' feats aren't linear like Dragon Ball characters. They are written by different authors who have different interpretations of a certain character. There are high-end showings for Thor that would make the average Galactus incarnation jealous like absorbing a bomb that would destroy 1/5th of the universe.

Just because several people (yourself included) like to ***** about feats you dislike doesn't invalidate them

Several fictions are written by different authors like Warhammer 40,000 or Star Wars and yet we treat them with the same level of consideration when it comes to vs debating. Good job on the red herring #2

Don't like it? Too damn bad it happened. Still don't like it? Go cry to MovieCodec or CBR

A herald level character isn't someone who can run at billions of times faster than light and destroy solar systems. That's not how the tiering works and you can go ask the people at the comic section. I used to post there all the time.

>it doesn't suit my preconceived notions so it doesn't count

Kind of like how Thor drove away Galactus who was actually winning against Ego. But I guess that's not an outlier am I right.

Cite where I used Thor driving off Galactus as a feat and I'll get back to you

Nah you don't know anything about Dragon Ball or comic books. You just go by what other people tell you homie. You can't prove a single point other than bring up scans that you've seen people post in respect threads.

Nah, I know enough. Unlike you I don't go off MovieCodec's twisted way of "thinking" in regards to feat evaluation of comics and DBZ

Kind of hard to take yo seriously when you just regurgitate the same shit Moses and his cock worshippers spouted off in MVC in their heyday

Speed is linear here. If a blast takes 5 seconds to reach the moon from the earth, then that blast would be roughly 1/5th of the speed of light since it takes about one second for light emitted from this planet to travel to the moon. So if Piccolo's blast took, say, 10 seconds to reach the moon (when it clearly got there as soon as it left his hand), then it was 1/10th the speed of light. Dragon Ball characters' stats improve dramatically so there's literally no fathomable fcking way for you to say that they were not ftl by the end of Z.

Like how much more clear-cut than this can you get?

Still a non sequiter, and another red herring

That's not how it works, in Yu Yu Hakusho, Yusuke in Chapter Black was capable of country busting. His EoS self is far more powerful. Doesn't mean I get to say he's any higher than country level and Mach 350 because he's "way more powerful" in his EoS incarnation than his CB incarnation

It reached the moon in the SAME PANEL as it was fired.

Teleportation is instantaneous. The blast went that far before an 'instant.' Goku dematerialized and rematerialized and within that duration the blast had already traveled that far.

Even saying that teleportation isn't instantaneous (which is a retarded thing to claim, but hey you're here to downplay)

You get there in the exact same time regardless of how much distance you teleport across (after all, again, you are ignoring space/time when you teleport). Ergo it's irrelevant if he fired a blast in between teleport

the time interval wouldn't be a second like you're trying to say here. It'd be way less unless you want to say that Goku would have a better time actually flying than teleporting in short-ranged combat. A second would be a long time for even supersonic characters. Do you not understand that?

Mmkay, so relativistic then? Still not FTL

Originally posted by TheTyrant
The time frame is instant. It's a fcking teleportation ability; it's a blink. There's no damn delay time unless you can prove there is. Which you can't since it's teleportation.

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v31/c005/2.html

Roshi and Chi-Chi exchanging a few words after Goku leaves the house and before he reappears in the plane. Further in the same chapter Tien and Krillin having an even longer conversation after Goku leaves and before he got to Trunks and Vegeta.

Even if by chance those chars can talk faster than normal people it still proves a time lag of some sort does exist.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
the time interval wouldn't be a second like you're trying to say here. It'd be way less unless you want to say that Goku would have a better time actually flying than teleporting in short-ranged combat. A second would be a long time for even supersonic characters. Do you not understand that?

And btw, Piccolo clearly fired his attack in the second panel which we see from a frontal perspective.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Even if you say it's not an instant, its duration (as in dematerialization and rematerialization) sure as Hell is much less than a second.

At least you finally STFU about your Thanos wankery.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
All of it in one panel meaning it happens at that very moment.

By this logic anytime someone punches someone else in a panel without chambering a punch it happened in an instant.

Make no mistake i'm sure Piccolo's blast got to the moon fairly quickly but again, power scaling is a no go in DBZ.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
why would the interval be a second when these people were fighting at hypersonic speeds since the 21st Budokai?

Now you're trying to make a claim that it's substansially less than a second.

Again, the burden of proof is on YOU.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Why do I have to prove what's been made clear as day in the manga? It's called INSTANT transmission as it's a TELEPORTATION ability. Prove your claim that it isn't instant as the manga suggests. Lmao at you trying to claim there's a one second delay time before rematerialization. A second is a long time even for supersonic fighters in case you don't realize that.

[QUOTE=14709436]Originally posted by TheTyrant

Even you practically agreed that there's a time frame but you're trying your absolute hardest to claim it's substantially below 1 second.

Literally your only argument is

"buh buh its teh teleportation"

" its called teh instant"

You know what? I decided to make the actual effort to disprove your nonsense.

Goku uses instant transmission in one page. It apparently takes so long for him to appear that Trunks is able to leave the Lookout to get the Dragon Radar. So you can stfu about it being an instant when it clearly isn't.

I wonder what terrible argument you'll come up with next?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Yes, because teleportation takes time 20+ minutes am I right? Nice reaching buddy. What actually happened is that they traveled so fast that they disappeared from view completely after leaving the earth's atmosphere. If you look at the beginning of the movie you can see that they were indeed traveling.

😆 😆 😆

Remind me again, who's reaching? Oh yeah, YOU ARE. I didn't realize Earth's atmosphere was only 100 feet above the surface. Also what the hell is that light I circled?

You could try to make the argument that they're entering hyperspace like Silver Surfer might.

But that wouldn't explain how they get to King Kai's planet in another dimension.

Also if you noticed, Bills was riding on Whis' back when they went to King Kai's planet, and when they left Earth.

Also why does Whis always summon his staff when they fly somewhere?

Your gif of Bills and Whis flying is when they went to KING KAI's planet that exist in ANOTHER DIMENSION.

They probably teleported off screen. The fact is the planet Bills and Whis live on is in the same universe as Earth. It doesn't matter if they were light speeders, they still wouldn't be able get to King Kai's planet without teleporting there

Seriously I understand desperation is getting the better of you but try to keep some, even just a little cohesion in your post.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
No, you need to read. Your 'interpretation' is as biased and nonsensical as it can get. Galaxy's herald my rage blast destroying the galaxy is fact according to everyone, not just me.

"... And the galaxy swept clean" not "the galaxy swept clean of the Annihilation wave" Learn to comprehend.

Galaxy swept clean of what? The freaking Annihilation Wave. What else would Galactus be trying to wipe the galaxy clean of?

Your Thanos wank is embarrassing

Originally posted by TheTyrant

Show me one instance where it does.

The idea of condensing ki attacks is all good and well but there are several notable instances where characters from later sagas look weaker on panel or on screen than characters from earlier sagas.

Here's a noteworthy example, when 18 KO'd Vegeta by swinging Trunks into him.

DBZ fans will make up any excuse like saying 18 swung Trunks with the force of a planet, ironically without the entire surrounding landscape caving in on itself. Or say that Vegeta and Trunks were in weakened states even though Trunks was fine except for one hit he took from 17.

There's also the instance of a blood lusted Cell attacking Gohan, then missing and his punch leaving only a small hole in the ground.

So really, unless you have some irrefutable evidence of DBZ characters being light speed then you don't have much of an argument. The only argument you've come up with was how fast Bills and Whis could fly, even though Whis was doing all the work, and it's clearly teleporting when they go to another dimension and that Whis is clearly using his staff.

You also kept bringing up Goku's kamehameha wave against Cell, but your Instant Transmission theory has been debunked as well.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
I said survived the blast from Omega, not fought with him. His armor and shields are part of his gear.

So you're essentially saying that Thanos needs his tech to survive a powerful blast.

Also you said that Omega's blast was All Out but again, nothing in the comic supports this.

Both DBZ fans and Thanos fans are notorious for making things up and you exceed both of those expectations 😆 😆

Anyway I think I've had my fill of this cesspit of a thread. Responding and correcting Tyrant's dumbass posts is taking up too much time.

Asura solos, Bills is lucky enough to be along for the ride.