The ones VS Anakin, Luke, and Yoda

Started by Emperordmb4 pages
Emperordmb LSDMB

Regardless of him being the Chosen One and visiting Mortis he still only achieved Oneness twice so "He can most likely do it in this fight because Chosen One" is not really a valid argument. Regardless of who one is, Oneness is still an extremely rare thing. Only about ten characters in recorded history have achieved this state, and only two of them achieved it twice. One of them was jumped up on magical force steroids, and Anakin was the other one. Even for being the Chosen One, Anakin has had his share of Oneness in his life. Even on the off chance that it happens to him a third time it would not necessarily be in this fight.

Going of the tangent that Anakin somehow achieves this state here, Anakin while achieving Oneness still took all of his effort just to hold the Son and Daughter down. Without the Dagger of Mortis he is not doing any more than that and he is certainly not going to bring down the Father at the same time. The Father is easily beyond Luke and Yoda's level and with his ability to deactivate lightsabers, they certainly wouldn't be able to strike the Son or Daughter with them and they also wouldn't be able to use their lightsabers against him. The Father could certainly handle Luke and Yoda in a force match. Going back to Anakin's struggle with the Son and Daughter, he could do little more than subdue them until his Oneness subsides at which point they will ****ing murder him.

carthage PLEASE PROTECT ME STONES

The Jedi SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

Lord Stark Lord of Winterfell
Originally posted by carthage
The Jedi SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

😆

The Merchant Senior Member

The Ones can destroy the Universe, I really don't see why people put them in vs. debates.

Lord Stark Lord of Winterfell

I'd even wager to say the ones solo the entire Jedi or Sith Order of any era.

Stealth Moose Umbrella Elite
Originally posted by carthage
You would think that PT fanboy.

NO U NOOB OMFG.

King Joker Restricted
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Regardless of him being the Chosen One and visiting Mortis he still only achieved Oneness twice so "He can most likely do it in this fight because Chosen One" is not really a valid argument.

Yes it is, because this fight is on Mortis, where he is able to achieve oneness. When he can stomp the Son and the Daughter.

[i] Regardless of who one is, Oneness is still an extremely rare thing. Only about ten characters in recorded history have achieved this state, and only two of them achieved it twice. One of them was jumped up on magical force steroids, and Anakin was the other one. Even for being the Chosen One, Anakin has had his share of Oneness in his life. Even on the off chance that it happens to him a third time it would not necessarily be in this fight.[/B]

If anyone can achieve oneness a third time, the Chosen One on Mortis in a pitched battle without a lightsaber and fighting presumably for his life... can.

[i]Going of the tangent that Anakin somehow achieves this state here, Anakin while achieving Oneness still took all of his effort just to hold the Son and Daughter down. Without the Dagger of Mortis he is not doing any more than that and he is certainly not going to bring down the Father at the same time.[/B]

He wasn't even aiming to kill them, he probably could, and if not, remove them from the battlefield.

[i] The Father is easily beyond Luke and Yoda's level and with his ability to deactivate lightsabers, they certainly wouldn't be able to strike the Son or Daughter with them and they also wouldn't be able to use their lightsabers against him. [/B]

How is he easily above them, especially both of them together... on Mortis...?

[i]The Father could certainly handle Luke and Yoda in a force match. [/B]

Both of them together? I'm not so sure...

[i] Going back to Anakin's struggle with the Son and Daughter, he could do little more than subdue them until his Oneness subsides at which point they will ****ing murder him.[/B]

Again, he wasn't aiming to kill them. And who says the oneness subsided? And maybe when he disables them, he can then stab them with his lightsaber...?

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by Lord Stark
I'd even wager to say the ones solo the entire Jedi or Sith Order of any era.

Nihilus?

Lord Stark Lord of Winterfell
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nihilus?

Gets stomped.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Fair point. Malgus would give them a good fight though. Played ball in college, ya know?

red8 Senior Member

According to wookieepedia\The_Ones :


Abeloth attacked both the Son and Daughter, forcing them to bow down to her. The Father then stepped in to save his children, afterwards taking them and leaving the planet, stranding Abeloth behind.

And according to wookieepedia\Abeloth


According to the Killik Thuruht hive, who referred to Abeloth as the Bringer of Chaos, Abeloth escaped her prison whenever the Current of the Force was altered and the flow of time changed. Each time she escaped, the Son and the Daughter would return to the Killiks and defeat Abeloth, locking her back in her prison.

I think there's a contradiction here. George Lucas said that Luke has the same potential that Anakin has. The Father states that Anakin can become powerful enough to replace him and keep his children in check.

Luke had trouble with Abeloth, a being that beat the Son and Daughter once, but has supposedly lost multiple times to them since then.

Full potential Anakin is able to overpower both of the children.

So it would seem like:

Luke < Abeloth < Son and Daughter < Father <= Anakin == Luke

Where did I mess up?

Emperordmb LSDMB

Originally posted by King Joker
Yes it is, because this fight is on Mortis, where he is able to achieve oneness. When he can stomp the Son and the Daughter.

The OP never specified the location as being on Mortis, you are twisting the context of the fight to suit a certain outcome. And Anakin was clearly exerting himself a lot there, and thus it was taking him a lot of effort to do even in his powered up state.

Originally posted by King Joker
If anyone can achieve oneness a third time, the Chosen One on Mortis in a pitched battle without a lightsaber and fighting presumably for his life... can.

Anakin achieving Oneness a second time was already a result of his Chosen One status, and was the result of the Father setting him up to specifically test his status as the Chosen One. The notion that this can be achieved by him a third time is a little far fetched. As I have previously mentioned numerous times, nowhere does the OP specify Mortis. Even considering that such an event would be possible, an event that rare certainly wouldn't take place for a majority. The Son very clearly does not fear Anakin even after this event, implying that it is not likely to happen again. Hell even after witnessing what Anakin did, Kenobi believes Anakin needs the help of the Daughter to have any chance at stopping the Son.

Originally posted by King Joker
He wasn't even aiming to kill them, he probably could, and if not, remove them from the battlefield.

The task at hand was still taking all of his effort to accomplish, and as I have previously mentioned, he has nothing to mortally wound them with. Two Godly characters who can shift their physical form, grant and strip force sensitivity, and resurrect the dead aren't going to be killed or taken out of the fight by any wounds Anakin can deal them without the Dagger of Mortis.

Originally posted by King Joker
How is he easily above them, especially both of them together... on Mortis...?

Well let's take a look at their respective force powers shall we. The Father demonstrates defensive capabilities beyond either of them by blocking lightsaber blades bare handed with almost casual disdain, and holding off the Son's lightning with the force (which is significantly greater than Sidious's and can destroy mountains). Offensively, the Father has subdued his children with force lightning on one occasion and has hurled both of them a significant distance with telekinesis. Neither of them can touch the Father with their lightsabers, neither can penetrate the Father's force defenses, and the Father has landed considerable blows with the force against characters more powerful than either of his two adversaries.

Originally posted by King Joker
Again, he wasn't aiming to kill them. And who says the oneness subsided? And maybe when he disables them, he can then stab them with his lightsaber...?

Subduing them was still taking all of his effort, drawing his lightsaber while holding them at bay with the force would only be that much more difficult, and if need be the Father could take one second out of his fight to deactivate Anakin's lightsaber. And this is of course assuming a lightsaber could even harm them without the Father sacrificing himself to weaken and distract them.

The notion that the Jedi can win this fight is a little bit far fetched, and the notion that they would actually win a majority is... absurd (I apologize if this isn't very civil but I couldn't find any other way to put it).

I'm not sure why it is so hard to accept that the Ones are far beyond the powers of the Jedi and Sith. Luke even admits them to be on a significantly greater tier than DE Sidious.

Lord Stark Lord of Winterfell

Originally posted by red8
According to wookieepedia\The_Ones :

And according to wookieepedia\Abeloth

I think there's a contradiction here. George Lucas said that Luke has the same potential that Anakin has. The Father states that Anakin can become powerful enough to replace him and keep his children in check.

Luke had trouble with Abeloth, a being that beat the Son and Daughter once, but has supposedly lost multiple times to them since then.

Full potential Anakin is able to overpower both of the children.

So it would seem like:

Luke < Abeloth < Son and Daughter < Father <= Anakin == Luke

Where did I mess up?

Lucas as far as I know never said Anakin and Luke had the same potential. He said Luke is as Anakin could have been/ should have been.

Emperordmb LSDMB

Even if so, it doesn't mean Luke's potential was 100% actualized.

Lord Stark Lord of Winterfell

^I also don't think realized potential Anakin=Realized potential Luke.

Anakin was conceived by the midi-clorians...Luke should be at around half-3/4ths of Anakin's full potential. So from 1-1.25 Emperor's.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Well, it was stated that full potential Anakin=2x>Palpatine. So even if peak Luke were only HALF as powerful as Anakin could have been(obviously he became greater than that), he'd still be equal to Palps. Lol, craycray.

But no, it has never been explicitly stated that full potential Luke=full potential Anakin. In fact, that wouldn't make any logical sense(even by SW standards)--Anakin, and Anakin alone, was The Chosen One. Not Luke.

Lord Stark Lord of Winterfell

^This. I actually wouldn't be opposed to the notion that max power Luke>/= Sidious though.

Raptor22 Senior Member

Wouldnt this fight kind of have to take place on mortis?. since all of the ones feats happen on Mortis which is a massive force nexus How can we judge their power level off it?

ares834 Senior Member
Originally posted by Lord Stark
^This. I actually wouldn't be opposed to the notion that max power Luke>/= Sidious though.

Lucas says as much. When he says "The son could become that ," (or whatever the exact wording is) he is talking about surpassing Palpatine.

Raptor22 Senior Member

I don't see it out of the realm of possibility that Luke and Yoda could handle the son and daughter. Luke and kryat were able to handle abeloth (albeit an avatar) and abeloth was able to make the son and daughter kneel before her.