Mace Windu vs Darth Malgus

Originally posted by NewGuy01
That is just fantastic.

Now explain to me why I should care. Dooku slapped the shit out of Sora, who has far better feats and accolades than Kao. If it's before his prime, then provide his prime showings instead, just saying "he got better" doesn't mean squat.

Lol, tone it down dude. No need to get so asshurt.

Anyway, I'd disagree with you on Bulq being that much better than Kao. His skill and power are undeniable. I don't recall Bulq eclipsing Kao throwing that huge engine. And how about no, it does mean squat. He defeated him when he was roughly 20, one third of the way through his life. Naturally his skills would drastically improve after that, especially since he spent most of that time in constant warfare. Which as we know from the Clone Wars does hone your skills considerably.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Bulq held his own against Mace, and overpowered both Tholme and Quinlan Vos. Not only that, but he's a confirmed master of all 7 forms and one of the best lightsaber instructors in the Order's history and has decades of battle experience on Zallow.

Edging out a win against Zallow is by no means better than completely humiliating Sora Bulq.

Malgus was beaten, how do you think he died?

Zallow has decades of ACTUAL lightsaber combat experience on Bulq. Bulq lasting a short amount of time against Windu before being dismissed with the Force doesn't mean much, nor does beating Tholme and Vos.

I did not say that it was better. I don't even recall saying that Malgus was Dooku's superior in lightsaber combat. But considering all his battles against Kao, Satele, Zallow and Leneer, all of which before his huge power boost, I definitely think he'll hold his own or defeat Dooku in a lightsaber duel.

He was punted into a shaft.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Key words there are "keeping up". Aryn still gained a significant advantage via speed. Also--Appearing to be in countless places at once by a Force User of AotC Kenobi's caliber is better than appearing in several places at once to a non force sensitive mook.

She gained an advantage, but its not said to be significant. His own advantage was strength, yet Aryn was still able to deal with it, just like Malgus was dealing with her speed.

Post this feat of Dooku's. I can't see it in AotC.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Uh, no, he blasted the fvck out of her with lightning, then hurled away her burnt-ass corpse. Not quiiiiite the same. XD

No, he has the edge multiple times in terms of TK:

"“Your Master was not,” Malgus said, grunting, and shoved her with a telekinetic blast of such force that she flew backward and slammed into the rock and rubble. She used the Force to cushion the impact, but she still landed on her back and the impact blew the breath from her lungs."

"Despite his wound, the Sith slapped aside Aryn’s Force-hold on the blade and snatched it out of the air, as quick as a sand viper."

"Malgus bounced up from the somersault and loosed a telekinetic blast that lifted Aryn from her feet and blew her across the hangar. She slammed into one of the shuttle’s bulkheads, but used the Force to cushion the blow so that it did no harm."

And I'm sure I've fellated Leneer enough already for you to be familiar with her, as I'm sure you're aware Malgus significantly improves after their fights.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Tossing around the strike team? You mean pushing them like, two feet? I fail to see how that is better than "anything Dooku has done".

Quote for that last feat btw? I've been hearing of it recently but I didn't see it in the Book of Sith.

Does it matter? He pushed the whole Strike Team back at the same time, and it seemed like way more of an impact than just two fricking feet. They flew backwards. Meanwhile Dooku could only make Obi-Wan and Anakin slide back like what, two feet? 😉

"The strength of my scream buckled the bridge's transparisteel viewpoint and left the crews ears bleeding. More gratifyingly, my rage overloaded the fuel slugs of an incoming wave of Aureks. The bright bursts of their deaths raised a smile." - BoS pg. 55.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah, the guy who defeated Volfe Karkko prior to being trained in the ways of the Dark Side by Dooku and Sora Bulq, and went on to beat the shit out of several prominent Clone Wars figures like K'Kruhk and Tol Skorr.

Let's not forget how Karkko slaughtered half-a-dozen Jedi Masters in his backstory. Or is it only impressive when Zallow does it?

I have absolutely no idea who any of those people are, lmao.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Is this you admitting Vitiate's only technique besides lightning spam isn't good in combat? I never thought this day would come.

Dooku never performed the feat in combat. I doubt its the same technique.

I maintain that Dooku will have serious trouble against a Force Maelstrom.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Malgus was underrated for some time, but he's gotten fair recognition after Intrepid made his respect thread.

Conversely, I see lots of people trying to lowball Dooku, when really he's one of the most capable warriors in the mythos.

Intrepid himself is a moron who only puts Malgus at Obi-Wan level though.

And Malgus is not? Theres a reason he contended to be Emperor, he's that ****ing good. Recall that Sidious said that his battlefield displays were unmatched and that he was an exemplary warrior.

Lol, tone it down dude. No need to get so asshurt.

It's not a matter of asshurt, but the logic of what you're trying to pass with here is absurd.

Anyway, I'd disagree with you on Bulq being that much better than Kao. His skill and power are undeniable.

The point I was trying to get across isn't that Bulq is far better than he--I said specifically that in side-by-side comparison of the two's accomplishments, Kao has nothing to make it any less ridiculous to say that defeating him is better than tooling Bulq because it was done before Malgus reached his peak. 🙄

He defeated him when he was roughly 20, one third of the way through his life. Naturally his skills would drastically improve after that, especially since he spent most of that time in constant warfare. Which as we know from the Clone Wars does hone your skills considerably.

And he undoubtedly did improve, his feats demonstrate that. My problem lies with the idea that a feat is supposedly better than it actually is because it was done before a character reached his prime. It's not. 😉

Zallow has decades of ACTUAL lightsaber combat experience on Bulq. Bulq lasting a short amount of time against Windu before being dismissed with the Force doesn't mean much, nor does beating Tholme and Vos.

Too bad Bulq has a canon quote regarding his extraordinary experience in battle and Zallow doesn't. 😛

The duel between Bulq and Mace was no less lengthy than Obi-Wan vs A'Sharad Hett, I don't see what you mean when you say the confrontation was brief. Also, feat-to-feat Quinlan is more impressive than Zallow himself.

I did not say that it was better. I don't even recall saying that Malgus was Dooku's superior in lightsaber combat. But considering all his battles against Kao, Satele, Zallow and Leneer, all of which before his huge power boost, I definitely think he'll hold his own or defeat Dooku in a lightsaber duel.

"I don't recall saying Malgus could defeat Dooku superior in alightsaber duel" (skips one line) "I definitely think he'll hold his own or defeat Dooku in a lightsaber duel" 😬

Alright, so the main problem with this in the case of Leneer and Satele, is that their capabilities in lightsaber combat are based almost entirely on their respective showings against Malgus himself--Therefore I'm not really sure how him defeating them awards him any cookies.

On the other hand, Zallow being one of the strongest masters in the Order tasked with the defense of the Jedi Temple, along with his ownage of multiple Sith Warriors speaks for his skill. Kao being the Jedi Order's bladesmaster and out dueling a presumably powerful Sith Lord speaks for his skill. That is why Malgus defeating them is impressive.

Do you understand what I'm saying here?

Post this feat of Dooku's. I can't see it in AotC.

As Obi-Wan gave ground, Dooku quickened the pace. His every move was economical and elegant; his lightsaber seemed to be everywhere at once.

-Attack of the Clones Junior Novelization

No, he has the edge multiple times in terms of TK:

"“Your Master was not,” Malgus said, grunting, and shoved her with a telekinetic blast of such force that she flew backward and slammed into the rock and rubble. She used the Force to cushion the impact, but she still landed on her back and the impact blew the breath from her lungs."

"Malgus bounced up from the somersault and loosed a telekinetic blast that lifted Aryn from her feet and blew her across the hangar. She slammed into one of the shuttle’s bulkheads, but used the Force to cushion the blow so that it did no harm."

These are displays of him applying Telekinesis in combat, yes, but you realize this is not the same thing as breaking through one's Force Shields, hurling them into the air, strangling them, then throwing them across the room. I find Dooku doing that to Kenobi rather more impressive.

If you're talking about the application of Force Waves and shoves, I could easily redirect you to Dooku doing this to Anakin multiple times during their encounters, and while Aryn has some good Force Feats--Anakin's are better.

"The strength of my scream buckled the bridge's transparisteel viewpoint and left the crews ears bleeding. More gratifyingly, my rage overloaded the fuel slugs of an incoming wave of Aureks. The bright bursts of their deaths raised a smile." - BoS pg. 55.

That's an impressive scream feat, but then again that's an involuntary power. Still, it demonstrates Malgus's raw power. As I said, though, Malgus's raw power matches and probably even exceeds Dooku's, but his application of TK in combat is much more rudimentary and less effective. Think of it like a comparison of Savage Opress and the good Count. 😎

I have absolutely no idea who any of those people are, lmao.

You don't know who K'Kruhk is? You are really out of touch. Well, in any case, Vos stomped him even harder than Assaj Ventress did, which should count for something. XD

Dooku never performed the feat in combat. I doubt its the same technique.

He *did* apply it in combat, he just used it with much more cunning than Vitiate did, switching out with it and making his escape while the manifestation was slayn.

I maintain that Dooku will have serious trouble against a Force Maelstrom.

I maintain that Malgus has never once even attempted to use Force Maelstrom in one on one combat to date.

Intrepid himself is a moron who only puts Malgus at Obi-Wan level though.

Intrepid isn't at all a moron, he's just stubborn and laid back.

Regardless of that though, his intention while making the respect thread doesn't mean it doesn't award Malgus deserved recognition, because all of his feats are there for the public eye to make their own judgements. I could make a knife for cutting steak and just as easily kill a man with it.

And Malgus is not? Theres a reason he contended to be Emperor, he's that ****ing good. Recall that Sidious said that his battlefield displays were unmatched and that he was an exemplary warrior.

And because the Emperor becomes worse and worse in the eyes of the beholder the more his accomplishments are looked into.

Yep, accolade from Sidious is nice. Dooku has accolades from Yoda though.

Windu

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's not a matter of asshurt, but the logic of what you're trying to pass with here is absurd.

Nah man, you're being pretty overly aggressive here. I hope that two days was enough for you to calm down.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The point I was trying to get across isn't that Bulq is far better than he--I said specifically that in side-by-side comparison of the two's accomplishments, Kao has nothing to make it any less ridiculous to say that defeating him is better than tooling Bulq because it was done before Malgus reached his peak. 🙄

And I was making the point that yeah it does make it better than that because Malgus dramatically improved after defeating him and then dramatically improved again.

Its not as if Dooku defeated Bulq in lightsaber combat either, he knocked him out with Force Lightning. Similar to how Mace TK pwned Bulq.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
And he undoubtedly did improve, his feats demonstrate that. My problem lies with the idea that a feat is supposedly better than it actually is because it was done before a character reached his prime. It's not. 😉

Yes, it is. Its like if the Hero of Tython defeated Obi-Wan at the start of the game or something. I don't ****ing care about this as a comparison, I'm just using it as a point. So don't be all like 'oh Obi-Wan is better than Kao' stfu, I don't care. Defeating someone so skilled in combat is impressive. But its much, much more impressive if it happened well before the persons prime. Considering we know that the HoT hugely improved during the game, we would have a comparison to be able to say that the HoT is well, well above Obi-Wan at their prime. Just like we can actually say that Malgus defeated Kao well before the height of his ability, making the feat all the more impressive. Because Malgus defeated Kao at the weakest we've seen him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Too bad Bulq has a canon quote regarding his extraordinary experience in battle and Zallow doesn't. 😛

The duel between Bulq and Mace was no less lengthy than Obi-Wan vs A'Sharad Hett, I don't see what you mean when you say the confrontation was brief. Also, feat-to-feat Quinlan is more impressive than Zallow himself.

I thought we had a canon quote regarding his extraordinary ability as an instructor.

Really? I thought it was a single page? If it wasn't a brief duel then it wouldn't be true that Dooku tooled him.

Lol @ Vos being superior to Zallow. Feat to feat huh? I'm guessing you're not talking about that time Quinlan was owned by Cad Bane.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
"I don't recall saying Malgus could defeat Dooku superior in alightsaber duel" (skips one line) "I definitely think he'll hold his own or defeat Dooku in a lightsaber duel" 😬

What? I truly hadn't said that Malgus was Dooku's superior at that point, you merely assumed. I subsequently clarified that I think they're at least equal though.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Alright, so the main problem with this in the case of Leneer and Satele, is that their capabilities in lightsaber combat are based almost entirely on their respective showings against Malgus himself--Therefore I'm not really sure how him defeating them awards him any cookies.

On the other hand, Zallow being one of the strongest masters in the Order tasked with the defense of the Jedi Temple, along with his ownage of multiple Sith Warriors speaks for his skill. Kao being the Jedi Order's bladesmaster and out dueling a presumably powerful Sith Lord speaks for his skill. That is why Malgus defeating them is impressive.

Do you understand what I'm saying here?

Satele also blitzed multiple Sith Warriors before her fight with Malgus. And performed numerous good feats during the fight such as holding off Malgus with one arm. And Leneer also has great speed and strength feats, and was demonstrably more deadly than Zallow, which makes their fight impressive for Malgus too.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
As Obi-Wan gave ground, Dooku quickened the pace. His every move was economical and elegant; his lightsaber seemed to be everywhere at once.

-Attack of the Clones Junior Novelization

Lol, thats not Dooku being in multiple places at once. Thats just hyperbole. I've seen the exact same description used for human speed dudes in books. Its pretty standard actually.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
These are displays of him applying Telekinesis in combat, yes, but you realize this is not the same thing as breaking through one's Force Shields, hurling them into the air, strangling them, then throwing them across the room. I find Dooku doing that to Kenobi rather more impressive.

If you're talking about the application of Force Waves and shoves, I could easily redirect you to Dooku doing this to Anakin multiple times during their encounters, and while Aryn has some good Force Feats--Anakin's are better.

How is that not overpowering someone with telekinesis? Aryn Leneer is Kenobi's superior anyway, so obviously tossing her around is more impressive than tossing Obi-Wan "Battered Housewife" Kenobi.

And I would direct you to Malgus tossing back the Strike Team and choking out 3 of them at once. Which makes tossing around Anakin look like childs play. Also I disagree about Anakin being superior to Leneer. Anakin isn't even more impressive than the Zabrak Jedi who Malgus owned while wounded. And before you point out that Malgus beat him with lightning, Malgus notes that he could pwn the Jedi in numerous different ways with the Force. Malgus also tossed around Satele Shan in their fight btw.

Also, the only time I can recall Dooku really tossing around Anakin was in the Clone Wars movie. The best he's done since is shove him back a few feet and throw some forks at him. Hardly comparable to Malgus blasting Leneer across the hanger.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
That's an impressive scream feat, but then again that's an involuntary power. Still, it demonstrates Malgus's raw power. As I said, though, Malgus's raw power matches and probably even exceeds Dooku's, but his application of TK in combat is much more rudimentary and less effective. Think of it like a comparison of Savage Opress and the good Count. 😎

❌

How wrong can you be? Malgus choking out 3 members of the Strike Team while fighting the last one is a far better application of TK skill than anything Dooku is capable of. Furthermore his combining 3 Force attacks at once is also a superior showing. The concept of a Force Maelstrom is to pelt the opponent with TK while blasting them with lightning and protecting yourself with a Force bubble. A truly masterful display.

Malgus is more powerful and more skilled in using the Force in combat than Dooku is. Theres a reason Sidious said that Malgus' combat displays were unequalled.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
You don't know who K'Kruhk is? You are really out of touch. Well, in any case, Vos stomped him even harder than Assaj Ventress did, which should count for something. XD

A loser is a loser. If this guy was notable I'm sure I would have heard about him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He *did* apply it in combat, he just used it with much more cunning than Vitiate did, switching out with it and making his escape while the manifestation was slayn.

You'll have to remind me of this. I thought Dooku created a doppelganger months in advance of when he shows up.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I maintain that Malgus has never once even attempted to use Force Maelstrom in one on one combat to date.

Its a combat technique, why would he not be able to use it in frickin' combat? Theres even a picture of Malgus using it to pwn a Jedi with it in the book, with a caption under it saying "Malgus harnessed the Force Maelstrom to annihilate the unready."

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Intrepid isn't at all a moron, he's just stubborn and laid back.

Regardless of that though, his intention while making the respect thread doesn't mean it doesn't award Malgus deserved recognition, because all of his feats are there for the public eye to make their own judgements. I could make a knife for cutting steak and just as easily kill a man with it.

Nah, he's kind of dim IMHO.

Tbh I think Legend did more good for Malgus. Before Legend started arguing for him we'd all kind of dismissed the guy but he brought up all the solid feats I'm using today and convinced me of his power even though I refused to admit it at the time.

It's not a matter of asshurt, but the logic of what you're trying to pass with here is absurd.

In any case, Windu wins. My support for this is NewGuy's argument, which over the years (2013-2014) I have began to accept and agree with. #swfmemories

That Dooku > Windu?

Dooku>Mace>Malgus. u mAd br0?

Not really. I'm amused. I'm not mad though.

I see we have mutual feeling then.

Nah but Malgus is quite a ways above Dooku.

Nah man, you're being pretty overly aggressive here. I hope that two days was enough for you to calm down.

lol

And I was making the point that yeah it does make it better than that because Malgus dramatically improved after defeating him and then dramatically improved again.

But you can't quantify his improvement up until his fights with Satele or Zallow, which means you are attempting to make an argument based entirely on assumption. It doesn't work.

Its not as if Dooku defeated Bulq in lightsaber combat either, he knocked him out with Force Lightning. Similar to how Mace TK pwned Bulq.

He was still tooling him throughout the duel, and he was doing it while holding off Tholme on the side. It's more impressive than Malgus defeating Kao no matter how you look at it!

Yes, it is. Its like if the Hero of Tython defeated Obi-Wan at the start of the game or something. I don't ****ing care about this as a comparison, I'm just using it as a point. So don't be all like 'oh Obi-Wan is better than Kao' stfu, I don't care.

I cannot believe you were just calling me overaggressive.

I thought we had a canon quote regarding his extraordinary ability as an instructor.

They're from the same set of passages. 😉

Really? I thought it was a single page? If it wasn't a brief duel then it wouldn't be true that Dooku tooled him.

Mace vs Bulq was 4 and a half pages. Dooku vs Bulq was like, one and a half.

Lol @ Vos being superior to Zallow. Feat to feat huh? I'm guessing you're not talking about that time Quinlan was owned by Cad Bane.

Quinlan was owned by Cad Bane "before his prime". 😎

Satele also blitzed multiple Sith Warriors before her fight with Malgus. And performed numerous good feats during the fight such as holding off Malgus with one arm. And Leneer also has great speed and strength feats, and was demonstrably more deadly than Zallow, which makes their fight impressive for Malgus too.

This only furthers my point. How is it impressive for Malgus to defeat someone who could block his attack?

Lol, thats not Dooku being in multiple places at once. Thats just hyperbole. I've seen the exact same description used for human speed dudes in books. Its pretty standard actually.

It's really strange seeing you calling hyperbole on someone else. XD

How is that not overpowering someone with telekinesis? Aryn Leneer is Kenobi's superior anyway, so obviously tossing her around is more impressive than tossing Obi-Wan "Battered Housewife" Kenobi.

Smacking someone with TK is not the same as suspending them in the air and throttling them dude.

And I would direct you to Malgus tossing back the Strike Team and choking out 3 of them at once. Which makes tossing around Anakin look like childs play.

You still have yet to convince anyone of that feat's canonicity.

Anakin isn't even more impressive than the Zabrak Jedi who Malgus owned while wounded. And before you point out that Malgus beat him with lightning, Malgus notes that he could pwn the Jedi in numerous different ways with the Force.

Funny.

That last part was interesting though, I had missed that.

Also, the only time I can recall Dooku really tossing around Anakin was in the Clone Wars movie. The best he's done since is shove him back a few feet and throw some forks at him. Hardly comparable to Malgus blasting Leneer across the hanger.

Dooku pushed him several yards across a hallway in their S4 fight, though admittedly it was after he had already blasted him with lightning.

A loser is a loser. If this guy was notable I'm sure I would have heard about him.

I'm still surprised you haven't heard of him. He's appeared several times in the PT, in the NJO series, and he was a part of the Jedi Council in Legacy.

He's fought Grievous, Ventress, Quinlan, and more during other eras, though admittedly he got his ass kicked in every single one of those fights. XD

He did pull a ****ing huge ship out of the sky though. #Tulakhordness

You'll have to remind me of this. I thought Dooku created a doppelganger months in advance of when he shows up.

It was a quote from the official fact files. Anakin corners Dooku on some planet and he switches himself out with a dark side doppleganger and escapes while Anakin fights and kills it.

Nah, he's kind of dim IMHO.

Tbh I think Legend did more good for Malgus. Before Legend started arguing for him we'd all kind of dismissed the guy but he brought up all the solid feats I'm using today and convinced me of his power even though I refused to admit it at the time.

Intrepid had a respect thread for Malgus on SuperSWF before I joined here, it's what initially made me facinated with the character for a while.

I'm kind of surprised that he was actually capable of respecting someone not showcased in combat against the movie era characters.

The angry bald guy loses.

im giving this battle to Malgus. Physically he is one of the strongest characters in the mythos. In terms of lightsaber skill he can throw down with peeps like Ven Zallow and Aryn Leneer. As a force wielder he has a lot of raw power, his lightning is impressive, his TK is powerful, he has scream and maelstrom under his belt plus saber throws. He is just a freaking tank that wont stop wrecking until he is dead on the ground. And I don't think Mace would be the one to put him there

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah but Malgus is quite a ways above Dooku.

Neph, if Vos were a ToR character, you'd be suggesting that he's on Dooku's level just like you do every character who's said to be "very powerful" or who has "killed bunch of sith."

Have you not been following NewGuy's arguments?

Yeah, Neph. Are you a Democrat or Republican? I mean uh, a PT guy or a Legends guy? There is no straddling party lines.

Vos sucks. How could he be Dooku level when Dooku described his dueling ability as 'appalling?'

Mace in a good fight.

Originally posted by PTforthewin
Mace windu kills him like a random rank and file sith

http://www.gophoto.it/view.php?i=http%3A%2F%2Favvesione.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F02%2Fkotoura_san-05-haruka-laughing-happy-rolling-excited-energy-cute.jpg#.U2ve0a1_t7d

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vos sucks. How could he be Dooku level when Dooku described his dueling ability as 'appalling?'

Dooku wouldn't have been able to make such a statement had Vos been a ToR character.

*Vos defeated a guy who has killed bunch of masters.*

Neph: "Vos sucks"

*Random ToR character is skilled and has killed a bunch of sith.*

Neph: "he should be Dooku or Maul level."

*Random ToR character can teleport (watch out mother Talzin), and has shielded her ship from being destroyed.*

Neph: "she's ROTS Sidious' superior in combat."

*Random ToR bounty hunter tanks a TK attack from Malgus*

Neph: "he can shrug off a force choke from Sidious"

Neph: *seemingly implies that LeGenD is smarter than Intrepid.* (lmfao)

It's not PT bias that plagues this forum.