Originally posted by NephthysBluh. It uses your own darkness, your opponents darkness and apparently everyone in a mile radius' darkness too. And super conductive loops and bluh bluh. This isn't actually explained clearly though. Its so dumb.
Which itself was stupid and only put in because Jackson needed to be a "badass."
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Originally posted by NewGuy01In simplest terms, Vaapad allows the user to gain all benefits offered by the Dark Side without suffering any of it's drawbacks.
This is stated in the ROTS novel.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's second property amplifies the wielder's power with the energies released by their opponent. The more powerful the opposition, the greater this amplification will be.
But this is never stated.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
But this process isn't only affected by an opponent. A Vaapad user can also feed upon the darkness around them (In this case, the terror emanating from the nearby village) and channel that as light energy as well. I would assume an experienced Vaapad user could also channel a Dark Nexus's power with this application as well.
And this is definitely not stated.
I can understand from the ROTS Novel that Mace draws on Dark emotions, and so he will fight at a higher level when his own dark emotions and that of his opponent are high. So I can understand his fight against Sidious was probably a peak performance for Mace, due to the fact that no one has more rage than Sidious to draw from, and Mace himself was pretty damn pissed at the thought of the Republic being controlled by the Sith.
But having said that, I think Mace's "Peak" performance is just that good. Because I honestly see no evidence to believe that "However powerful his opponent is, Mace will become exactly that powerful."
But if what you say is the case, then Neph is right, that it's been explained very poorly.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
But you can't quantify his improvement up until his fights with Satele or Zallow, which means you are attempting to make an argument based entirely on assumption. It doesn't work.
If my assumption is a clearly reasonable one then I don't see the problem. There's 30 years between the Korriban fight and the Sack of Coruscant. Can you really argue that he wouldn't have improved a great deal? From 30 years of non-stop fighting Jedi. As I said, we've seen how much improvement comes from fighting in wars.
Also, as I recall Satele states that Malgus has greatly improved in her journal. While calling him the most dangerous manifestation of the dark side shes ever seen.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
He was still tooling him throughout the duel, and he was doing it while holding off Tholme on the side. It's more impressive than Malgus defeating Kao no matter how you look at it!
The duel was 3 panels long dude, one of which was just a picture of Dooku's smug face:
And as you can see he isn't holding off Tholme, he blasts him away with TK in the first panel. So no, he isn't tooling him throughout the fight, theres only one image where they're actually crossing blades, lol.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I cannot believe you were just calling me overaggressive.
I'm just making sure bro. People usually jump on me for things like that.
Also, so you agree with the rest of my point?
Originally posted by NewGuy01
They're from the same set of passages. 😉
Can you post this quote that describes Bulq's awesomeness?
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Mace vs Bulq was 4 and a half pages. Dooku vs Bulq was like, one and a half.
Its closer to 2 actually. Theres one page with them talking while touching blades, then one with them fighting, half a page with them saberlocking then a last half a page where Windu beats him.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Quinlan was owned by Cad Bane "before his prime". 😎
Lol.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
This only furthers my point. How is it impressive for Malgus to defeat someone who could block his attack?
Its impressive because it shows that she's a strong, powerful opponent. We know from other feats how strong Malgus is, so her blocking his attack is an impressive feat FOR HER. Its not as if I'm using it as a basis for Malgus' strength, just pointing out that Satele has some chops. He didn't beat her through strength, he beat her through skill, speed and a superior application of TK in battle.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's really strange seeing you calling hyperbole on someone else. XD
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Smacking someone with TK is not the same as suspending them in the air and throttling them dude.
Its still overpowering her. Especially since he actually did overpower her hold on her lightsaber throw. At the end of the day, Malgus is still Leneer's clear superior in telekinesis, and she's really powerful in that regard. Way more powerful than Kenobi, so Malgus' feat is superior and he did it before his epiphany.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
You still have yet to convince anyone of that feat's canonicity.
You're the only one here who hasn't bought it mate. ❌
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Funny.That last part was interesting though, I had missed that.
When Anakin can pull down two huge buildings, let me know. Until then, Hope Malgus >>> him and TOR Malgus >>>>>> him.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Dooku pushed him several yards across a hallway in their S4 fight, though admittedly it was after he had already blasted him with lightning.
True.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'm still surprised you haven't heard of him. He's appeared several times in the PT, in the NJO series, and he was a part of the Jedi Council in Legacy.He's fought Grievous, Ventress, Quinlan, and more during other eras, though admittedly he got his ass kicked in every single one of those fights. XD
He did pull a ****ing huge ship out of the sky though. #Tulakhordness
I've not read Legacy or NJO. Looking at his Wookiee page, I have seen him before but I still don't know much about him.
Yeah, I've checked out his capablities and all I've seen is him losing fights to people. Absolutely no mention anywhere about him pulling a huge ship out of the sky.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
It was a quote from the official fact files. Anakin corners Dooku on some planet and he switches himself out with a dark side doppleganger and escapes while Anakin fights and kills it.
The Wookieepedia page suggests otherwise.
And this is definitely not stated.
Well that's what Depa does in Shatterpoint. Can't ignore broski.
But having said that, I think Mace's "Peak" performance is just that good. Because I honestly see no evidence to believe that "However powerful his opponent is, Mace will become exactly that powerful."
I never, ever said that. I've openly opposed that theory as well. Mace's amp depending on the power of the dark energies released by his opponent doesn't mean his power will become exactly as powerful as his opponent. 😬
Just saying that an amp against Ventress will not be the same as an amp against Palpatine.
If my assumption is a clearly reasonable one then I don't see the problem. There's 30 years between the Korriban fight and the Sack of Coruscant. Can you really argue that he wouldn't have improved a great deal? From 30 years of non-stop fighting Jedi. As I said, we've seen how much improvement comes from fighting in wars.
I can argue that Zallow fared lots better against Malgus when he fought him than Kao did 30 years beforehand. If Zallow was really that much better than the battlemaster, then the feat wasn't impressive in the first place. /discussion
Also, as I recall Satele states that Malgus has greatly improved in her journal. While calling him the most dangerous manifestation of the dark side shes ever seen.
I recall the second quote, not the first.
And as you can see he isn't holding off Tholme, he blasts him away with TK in the first panel. So no, he isn't tooling him throughout the fight, theres only one image where they're actually crossing blades, lol.
But that wasn't the initiation of the duel, it had already been going on beforehand. Also, technically, Malgus didn't defeat Aryn in a saber fight either, so is that feat invalid as well?
Can you post this quote that describes Bulq's awesomeness?
Awesomeness? You mean the feat I was referring to regarding Bulq's combat experience?
There's two, but I can't find the second one. Here's the first:
"The saber instructor bore the scars that attest to hundreds of combat kills"
-The Jedi Path
The second quote stated that Sora had decades of combat experience.
Its closer to 2 actually. Theres one page with them talking while touching blades, then one with them fighting, half a page with them saberlocking then a last half a page where Windu beats him.
Touching blades? Don't be silly, I could just as easily say every time we see A'Sharad and Obi-Wan's sabers connect in the panels that they are simply "touching".
When Anakin can pull down two huge buildings, let me know. Until then, Hope Malgus >>> him and TOR Malgus >>>>>> him.
By that logic, until Malgus collapses a dome, Anakin>Malgus. 😬
Yeah, I've checked out his capablities and all I've seen is him losing fights to people. Absolutely no mention anywhere about him pulling a huge ship out of the sky.
Silver made a topic about it.
Originally posted by NewGuy01I never, ever said that. I've openly opposed that theory as well. Mace's amp depending on the power of the dark energies released by his opponent doesn't mean his power will become exactly as powerful as his opponent. 😬
Just saying that an amp against Ventress will not be the same as an amp against Palpatine.
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Although since it is about rage and dark emotions that Windu draws from, an amp against say Maul may actually be almost the same as the amp he gets from Sidious.
Then of course the amp he was getting from his own dark emotions were at a high against Sidious, but that was context specific.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also, as I recall Satele states that Malgus has greatly improved in her journal. While calling him the most dangerous manifestation of the dark side shes ever seen.
I'm reading the book right now and she makes no mention of anything you've said. She said she's "disheartened" to see him but that's the most she says about Malgus.
Although since it is about rage and dark emotions that Windu draws from, an amp against say Maul may actually be almost the same as the amp he gets from Sidious.
Well technically it's the negative energies induced from rage and dark emotion that a Vaapad user channels.
If it were simply feeding on emotions, that's not something outside the scope of any notable Sith Warrior. It's definitely something more than that.
Initially that is what I believed, but really it seems to be more than just that. I do think the raw power of the opponent affects Mace's empowerment.
Then of course the amp he was getting from his own dark emotions were at a high against Sidious, but that was context specific.
I for a long time have refuted this theory, I think making a big deal out of the fact that Mace was disheartened by Anakin's revelation is over analyzing it to put down Windu's feat.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well technically it's the negative energies induced from rage and dark emotion that a Vaapad user channels.If it were simply feeding on emotions, that's not something outside the scope of any notable Sith Warrior. It's definitely something more than that.
Initially that is what I believed, but really it seems to be more than just that. I do think the raw power of the opponent affects Mace's empowerment.
Well no it would be different to what any Sith can do simply because Vapaad is a "Channel" for darkness. So through that channel he could successfully draw on the darkness of his opponent.
But I must point out that the words "feeding" or "raw power" are never mentioned. In fact Sidious was still faster than him and still more powerful in the Force. So this is where I agree with Neph. They have done a very poor job of explaining to us the exact mechanics of Vapaad.
NewGuy said [QUOTE]I for a long time have refuted this theory, I think making a big deal out of the fact that Mace was disheartened by Anakin's revelation is over analyzing it to put down Windu's feat. [/B]
Well not really. Because if he's drawing off all the dark energies available to him then he's simply fighting at his own full potential. That's giving Mace more credit than saying "he was only that powerful because Sidious was" Imho.