@BWR
You're conflating ideas. Dawkins wouldn't disagree with the Harris quote. That has to do with the rationality of holding the belief (or lack thereof), not the severity of its violations. Dawkins's comment that some sects are more benign than others has nothing to do with the intellectual footing for believing it. It's less violent - and therefore worthy of more respect - but has no more claim to truth than any other religious system.
In simpler terms, the quotes are not mutually exclusive.
Originally posted by Deadline
Not too sure whats going on here but the idea that religion is bad because some religious people are bad is a silly argument but this seems to be something that is repeated a lot.
No one's saying that here.
Originally posted by Digi
Heh. That's stacking the deck, though. You're assuming lopsided prep. Why not stipulate that he's incoherently drunk for your debate while you're at it?
IIRC, he was drunk or had been drinking before at least a few of those debates. He did well for himself. Some people argue better while high or drunk.
But, he would not shy away from a debate if the person was sincere, legit, and the venue was respectable.
Originally posted by dadudemon
IIRC, he was drunk or had been drinking before at least a few of those debates. He did well for himself. Some people argue better while high or drunk.But, he would not shy away from a debate if the person was sincere, legit, and the venue was respectable.
I did say incoherently. Obviously he's going to be a little bit drunk regardless of when you debate him. The devil may have invented alcohol, but Hitchens has no doubt already put a strain on Hell's production of scotch.
Originally posted by Digi
The devil may have invented alcohol, but Hitchens has no doubt already put a strain on Hell's production of scotch.
Hey, now, Mormons don't believe in hell. He's, at worst, in "spirit prison" which is a philosophical state of mind rather than a physical place. He's probably arguing the Plan of Salvation with my grandfather. My grandfather was argumentative, hard-headed, and sometimes made offensive arguments back in the day (runs in the family...heh). Perfect person to match-up against Hitchens. 😄
Originally posted by dadudemon
Hey, now, Mormons don't believe in hell. He's, at worst, in "spirit prison" which is a philosophical state of mind rather than a physical place. He's probably arguing the Plan of Salvation with my grandfather. My grandfather was argumentative, hard-headed, and sometimes made offensive arguments back in the day (runs in the family...heh). Perfect person to match-up against Hitchens. 😄
Well this is just silly. You can't just go making up nonexistent and implausible afterlives that act as wish fulfillment for you and/or your extended family. That would be like...
...oh, right, most afterlives.
Hitchens is dead. He's not arguing with your grandfather; he's rotting in the ground without consciousness. Go take a shower and think about your life.
uhuh
Originally posted by Digi
Well this is just silly. You can't just go making up nonexistent and implausible afterlives that act as wish fulfillment for you and/or your extended family. That would be like......oh, right, most afterlives.
Hitchens is dead. He's not arguing with your grandfather; he's rotting in the ground without consciousness. Go take a shower and think about your life.
uhuh
Hitchens just visited me as a spirit. He told me a couple of things:
1. There is an afterlife and he was wrong the whole time.
2. I would have easily beat him in a debate on God.
Man, it's awesome being a theist who believes in literal and direct revelation from God. We can win ALL the arguments (just plug your ears and say, "Noooope! God told me x. NOPE! NOPE! X.". 🙂
Originally posted by dadudemon
Hitchens just visited me as a spirit. He told me a couple of things:1. There is an afterlife and he was wrong the whole time.
2. I would have easily beat him in a debate on God.Man, it's awesome being a theist who believes in literal and direct revelation from God. We can win ALL the arguments (just plug your ears and say, "Noooope! God told me x. NOPE! NOPE! X.". 🙂
Lol.
http://chelslynn.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/20130207-182551.jpg
Welp, I'm out.
Originally posted by Digi
Lol.http://chelslynn.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/20130207-182551.jpg
Welp, I'm out.
I see! Panchickena, the new supercontinent.
Originally posted by Digi
Lol.http://chelslynn.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/20130207-182551.jpg
Welp, I'm out.
Oh shit. There goes years of debating.
Ok, so back on topic, and with an olive branch to the opposite side no less:
My boy Penn Jillette with Glenn Beck. It's actually a really great talk between the two of them, and it doesn't devolve into petty arguments.
It's not a quick video, but it's a very fair discussion between people that have a surprising amount of agreement outside of their stark religious disagreements.
One of the most interesting disagreements I've read recently was between Dennett and Harris. It can be found in the Philosophy forum in my topic on moral responsibility and free will.
Links:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14606575#post14606575
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14623675#post14623675
It's not an atheism debate, but is interesting nonetheless. And it actually gets quite heated in some of the rebuttals. Watching people I generally agree with get so into it is always fascinating to me.
Originally posted by Bardock42
How would you guys define "New Atheism"?
"A media-driven term that encompasses a very loosely aligned group of thinkers."
Originally posted by Digi
Ok, so back on topic, and with an olive branch to the opposite side no less:My boy Penn Jillette with Glenn Beck. It's actually a really great talk between the two of them, and it doesn't devolve into petty arguments.
It's not a quick video, but it's a very fair discussion between people that have a surprising amount of agreement outside of their stark religious disagreements.
Thats actually a really good video. I was expecting 'religious people are stupid nyah nyah nyah'.
EDIT: I'm only half way through but it's inetresting so far..
Originally posted by Deadline
Thats actually a really good video. I was expecting 'religious people are stupid nyah nyah nyah'.
Originally posted by Digi
No one's saying that here.
This is twice now you've come in with that assumption. I don't know if you've only been exposed to sh*tty atheists, or have succumbed to believing the stereotype without actually investigating it.
In any case, glad you enjoyed the video. Penn is one of my heroes; I'm (nearly) always in agreement with both his arguments and how he presents them.
Originally posted by Digi
This is twice now you've come in with that assumption. I don't know if you've only been exposed to sh*tty atheists, or have succumbed to believing the stereotype without actually investigating it.In any case, glad you enjoyed the video. Penn is one of my heroes; I'm (nearly) always in agreement with both his arguments and how he presents them.
LOL has somebody kidnapped Digi or have you been asleep on this forum? I don't know maybe athiests have become more civil but from my experience on this forum and in the media atheists are quite obnoxious. You're making it sound like I don't have any basis for my thinking, I do.
EDIT: At any rate this is a really good video I'd prefer not too argue for a change.
Originally posted by Deadline
LOL has somebody kidnapped Digi or have you been asleep on this forum? I don't know maybe athiests have become more civil but from my experience on this forum and in the media atheists are quite obnoxious. You're making it sound like I don't have any basis for my thinking, I do.EDIT: At any rate this is a really good video I'd prefer not too argue for a change.
Ha! No worries. Glad you enjoyed it.
