Vision vs Wonderman vs Namor vs Captain Marvel

namor is NOT far more powerful than simon. at all. would i take namor over simon in a straight brawl? yes, but each fight would be very close. and vision's gem would certainly play a part in this. heat can and HAS harmed and weakened namor many many times.....just because he has a couple feats that show he can fight through it (wouldn't mind the scans though--are they in the respect thread?) doesn't mean in any way that vision's (who has some good gem feats) heat attack would be useless against him. especially if he and carol worked together in this to take him down. at max density vision is a match for simon, which means he could def go h2h with namor, though again he'd lose eventually. but he has more than just h2h to rely on and a couple of phases through namor's brain (an attack that ko'd immortal hercules, btw.....) or through namor's heart (he can literally grab his heart and crush it, something he hasn't done but has threatened in the past...) would end namor imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
namor is NOT far more powerful than simon. at all. would i take namor over simon in a straight brawl? yes, but each fight would be very close. and vision's gem would certainly play a part in this. heat can and HAS harmed and weakened namor many many times.....just because he has a couple feats that show he can fight through it (wouldn't mind the scans though--are they in the respect thread?) doesn't mean in any way that vision's (who has some good gem feats) heat attack would be useless against him. especially if he and carol worked together in this to take him down. at max density vision is a match for simon, which means he could def go h2h with namor, though again he'd lose eventually. but he has more than just h2h to rely on and a couple of phases through namor's brain (an attack that ko'd immortal hercules, btw.....) or through namor's heart (he can literally grab his heart and crush it, something he hasn't done but has threatened in the past...) would end namor imo.

Regarding Simon and Namor. Multiple examples were given where Namor dominated or did far better against common foes than Simon has. Namor also "thwapped" Simon despite Simon having help.

In terms of raw strength, Namor destroys Simon. Simon's best feat is straining his @$$ off to balance Hydrobase on that pillar it was on and even then Invisible Woman had to lend a hand. Namor lifted the damn thing from the seafloor by himself.

Ms. Marvel is a non factor here. He'd backhand her into a coma.

Originally posted by leonidas
namor is NOT far more powerful than simon. at all. would i take namor over simon in a straight brawl? yes, but each fight would be very close. and vision's gem would certainly play a part in this. heat can and HAS harmed and weakened namor many many times.....just because he has a couple feats that show he can fight through it (wouldn't mind the scans though--are they in the respect thread?) doesn't mean in any way that vision's (who has some good gem feats) heat attack would be useless against him. especially if he and carol worked together in this to take him down. at max density vision is a match for simon, which means he could def go h2h with namor, though again he'd lose eventually. but he has more than just h2h to rely on and a couple of phases through namor's brain (an attack that ko'd immortal hercules, btw.....) or through namor's heart (he can literally grab his heart and crush it, something he hasn't done but has threatened in the past...) would end namor imo.

This is even better.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsAvengers57403.jpg.html

Originally posted by carver9
This is even better.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsAvengers57403.jpg.html

Originally posted by zopzop
ROFL! Punched in the back of the head while "intangible". Luckily for Namor he's not a slow, earth bound brick.

😠 i posted that to show his intangibility working on durable characters like Classic Jugs. I still think Namor wins this though. His fts are too high.

Originally posted by carver9
😠 i posted that to show his intangibility working on durable characters like Classic Jugs. I still think Namor wins this though. His fts are too high.

Vision tried to do that to Thor and Thor shoved Mjolnir in his chest. LOL.

Namor got this.

Originally posted by zopzop
Vision's heat gem is doing nothing. Trust me on this. No amount of heat it can produce would come anywhere NEAR three Human Torches unloading on Namor. So........yeah. Vision's only hope is some sort of phasing attack but I'd still take Namor over him.

Regarding Simon and Namor. Multiple examples were given where Namor dominated or did far better against common foes than Simon has. Namor also "thwapped" Simon despite Simon having help.

In terms of raw strength, Namor destroys Simon. Simon's best feat is straining his @$$ off to balance Hydrobase on that pillar it was on and even then Invisible Woman had to lend a hand. Namor lifted the damn thing from the seafloor by himself.

Ms. Marvel is a non factor here. He'd backhand her into a coma.

zop, i don't have to trust you--i've seen heat weaken and harm him numerous times. no trust necessary. you do like to cherry-pick that one feat though. i know however, should i show a couple of times where heat worked, you'd say i was lowballing. on average, he absolutely does NOT withstand '3 human torches'.

their strength feats will go to namor, but 1on1 battles? not nearly as one-sided as you want to make it out to be. simon has gone toe-to-toe with almost every heavyweight in marvel and done well. how many times has namor barely (or not at all) handled thing.....?

don't highball. namor would beat simon. it would NOT be lop-sided by any stretch of the imagination.

this is also a 4-man battle. it would be easy for vision to attack anyone at anytime while they were fighting someone. carver made a good find with juggs. but there's no reason it needs to be a back attack. at all. namor swings, vision is intangible, phase attack. simple. most survive or handle it because he doesn't WANT to kill or risk killing. if vision doesn't want to be hit, namor simply cannot hit him and it would be a draw. easier to see a phase attack working before that happens. if vision fights smart, uses his heat and stealth, he should take this in the end.

Originally posted by leonidas
zop, i don't have to trust you--i've seen heat weaken and harm him numerous times. no trust necessary. you do like to cherry-pick that one feat though. i know however, should i show a couple of times where heat worked, you'd say i was lowballing. on average, he absolutely does NOT withstand '3 human torches'.

their strength feats will go to namor, but 1on1 battles? not nearly as one-sided as you want to make it out to be. simon has gone toe-to-toe with almost every heavyweight in marvel and done well. how many times has namor barely (or not at all) handled thing.....?

don't highball. namor would beat simon. it would NOT be lop-sided by any stretch of the imagination.

this is also a 4-man battle. it would be easy for vision to attack anyone at anytime while they were fighting someone. carver made a good find with juggs. but there's no reason it needs to be a back attack. at all. namor swings, vision is intangible, phase attack. simple. most survive or handle it because he doesn't WANT to kill or risk killing. if vision doesn't want to be hit, namor simply cannot hit him and it would be a draw. easier to see a phase attack working before that happens. if vision fights smart, uses his heat and stealth, he should take this in the end.

Regarding Vision phasing. He's been affected by physical objects at least TWICE despite being 'intangible'. Freaking Hulk punched him in the back of the head while he was phasing.

Compare their fights with common foes. Namor > Simon. By a comfortable margin too. Then compare their fights against each other. Thwap! Thwap! Thwap! Thwap! Thwap! Thwap!

Let me make this easy for you. Vs Common Foes :
Venom
Namor beat the phuck out of Venom despite Venom getting the drop on him and weakening him with a specially devised weapon.

Simon was getting manhandled by Venom.

Hercules
Namor has fought Hercules to a standstill on multiple occasions.

Simon got his faced smashed in by Herc.

Abomination
Namor fought him on even terms. Neither side really gaining an advantage.

Simon was getting his sh|t pushed in (black eye, bloody nose, bruised face) till he used some powerlines to fry Abom.

Hulk
Namor has actual victories over Savage Hulk (seen by many as being more powerful than Prof Hulk).

Simon held his own for a little while vs Prof Hulk (Grey Hulk humiliated him though).

Vs Each Other. Simon got Namor with a sucker punch once. Later Simon, with help from Sentry AND Ares, couldn't handle Namor. Namor humiliated Simon using him as a battering ram to attack Ares and Sentry "Evil Mary Marvel" style.

Get it now? Namor is simply superior to Simon going by on panel fights and feats. Don't believe me, go hunting in his Respect thread or maybe Abhi will take pity and link the relevant scans. I'm done here.

You no longer hate Namor? What happened?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You no longer hate Namor? What happened?

I still think Ult Namor > 616 Namor. But 616 Namor isn't the joke I thought he was.

Originally posted by zopzop

Regarding Simon and Namor. Multiple examples were given where Namor dominated or did far better against common foes than Simon has. Namor also "thwapped" Simon despite Simon having help.

In terms of raw strength, Namor destroys Simon. Simon's best feat is straining his @$$ off to balance Hydrobase on that pillar it was on and even then Invisible Woman had to lend a hand. Namor lifted the damn thing from the seafloor by himself.

What common foes are we talking about? Simon has thrown down with, and damaged Ultron. He's went toe to toe with Nefaria. He caught a damn skyscraper that Nefaria thew. He's whipped Abomination. Took Thor and Hercules to the limit. Etc,,,.

Just because he had a low showing in the horribly written Avengers/Invaders series and had some writer lowball him again on some lifting feat doesn't mean Namor is more powerful then him. You even went as far as saying that Namor destroys Simon in raw strength and that's simply not the case (I believe everybody is aware of this). If anything, its a coin toss regarding a fight between the two of them.

Sorry, just read your above post, but it doesn't do much for me. They both go back and forth with feats (with Simon being a background character more often then not). I just don't see it as decisive as you do.

Originally posted by zopzop
Namor has withstood heat attacks before. That much isn't even debatable. His high is beyond anything Vision is capable of producing. Hell his AVERAGE vs heat attacks is greater than any heat Vision has produced on panel. He's fought Human Torches (plural) throughout his career for phucks sake and survived and won.

Regarding Vision phasing. He's been affected by physical objects at least TWICE despite being 'intangible'. Freaking Hulk punched him in the back of the head while he was phasing.

Namor isn't going to be affected by heat (high showing) and is going to manhandle vision phasing (low showings?)

You need to take a step back.

Originally posted by zopzop

Vs Each Other. Simon got Namor with a sucker punch once. Later Simon, with help from Sentry AND Ares, couldn't handle Namor. Namor humiliated Simon using him as a battering ram to attack Ares and Sentry "Evil Mary Marvel" style.

Get it now? Namor is simply superior to Simon going by on panel fights and feats. Don't believe me, go hunting in his Respect thread or maybe Abhi will take pity and link the relevant scans. I'm done here.

Lol. Please quit using the Avengers/Invaders story as ammo. It was a horribly written story that holds no relevance. It even had the Sentry flying away scared of the Human Torch. Namor is in battle against the Sentry, Simon, and Ares and when he starts using Simon like a baseball bat, Sentry is nowhere to be seen. Are we to believe that Namor knocked him out or BFR'd him long enough for this to happen when in another battle between the two of them, Namor was incapable of emitting any offensive action at all? The Sentry totally dominated him as it should be after he got just a wee bit pissed. See how that works?

Originally posted by snowdragon
Namor isn't going to be affected by heat (high showing) and is going to manhandle vision phasing (low showings?)

You need to take a step back.

Originally posted by tkitna
Lol. Please quit using the Avengers/Invaders story as ammo. It was a horribly written story that holds no relevance. It even had the Sentry flying away scared of the Human Torch. Namor is in battle against the Sentry, Simon, and Ares and when he starts using Simon like a baseball bat, Sentry is nowhere to be seen. Are we to believe that Namor knocked him out or BFR'd him long enough for this to happen when in another battle between the two of them, Namor was incapable of emitting any offensive action at all? The Sentry totally dominated him as it should be after he got just a wee bit pissed. See how that works?

Does heat affect Namor? Yes

Can Vision phase to prevent a physical confrontaion? Yes

Can Namor beat Vision? Yes

In this fight with multiple enemies and Vision able to pick his moment then the cards are against Namor, this isn't a one on one.

This is a fight for Vision to win.

Well if Vision tries to go intangible and phase through Simon, both would get KOED by the feedback.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well if Vision tries to go intangible and phase through Simon, both would get KOED by the feedback.

People seem to forget that back in the mid 80s a bloodlusted Vision tried to kill Colossus by doing just that. He stuck his arms into him and rapidly increased his density. Guess what happened? Both died.

Relatively recently, in an issue of the X-men, when they needed someone to investigate a dangerous portal, they sent Namor because he was the most durable. They said this despite the fact that Colossus was right there (trying to find the scan in Namor's respect thread).

So..........if Vision killed himself and Colossus while going all out. How well would he do vs someone that's more durable than Colossus? Common sense would say not too well.

Originally posted by zopzop

Which instance are you talking about? The other time they fought, nothing was accomplished and Sentry just flew away.

The fight where Namor basically admitted he had no chance of winning, but was going to try anyways and Sentry beat him up one side of the city to the next. Your right though, there was no conclusion to the fight, but there usually isn't when two heros go at it. Surely you don't think Namor can hang with a no nonsense Sentry do you?

That's not the point though I suppose. All i'm saying is that you shouldn't be putting so much stock in the Avengers/Invaders book when most of the interaction between the heros, didn't pay out the usual results. It was horrible writing.

Originally posted by tkitna
The fight where Namor basically admitted he had no chance of winning, but was going to try anyways and Sentry beat him up one side of the city to the next. Your right though, there was no conclusion to the fight, but there usually isn't when two heros go at it. Surely you don't think Namor can hang with a no nonsense Sentry do you?

That's not the point though I suppose. All i'm saying is that you shouldn't be putting so much stock in the Avengers/Invaders book when most of the interaction between the heros, didn't pay out the usual results. It was horrible writing.

The point isn't Sentry or his fluctuating power level, the point is that Namor tooled Simon. This isn't a fluke because when you compare their common foes, it's Namor that comes off looking FAR better. I was even kind enough to give examples. If you don't believe my take on those fights, just ask Abhi or Namorsubby or Carver or anyone else that saw the scans of those fights in context.

Namor is superior to Simon. Accept it and move on.