Vision vs Wonderman vs Namor vs Captain Marvel · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Yeah, if you really want to compare fight between Simon and Namor, compare these two scenes.

Mind you, this is just seconds after he fought a whole team of avengers including Hercules.

Simon vs Tyrannus controlled Abomination. This is the strongest version of Simon who overpowered Thor in a grappling contest.

Well just say that Abomination was merciful and didn't gave Simon a wedgie.

h1a8 Senior Member

Namor in water is slightly superior to Simon. But Namor out of water is definitely inferior to Simon. Heat dries water. Heat>>>cold air (which dries Namor). So Namor will get weakened by heat attacks as he has in the past, but he won't necessarily get koed by heat attacks.

WM is clearly stronger than Namor. It's not debatable really.

tkitna Senior Member

Originally posted by zopzop
Namor was doing just fine during that fight. As Sentry flew off, Namor was up and about (not even bloodied or bruised). That fight was both a) short and b) inconclusive.[/b]

Namor surviving the encounter was him doing just fine? He was unable to launch any kind of offense during the entire fight. Seriously, not once in any panel was he the aggressor except for the initial start of the fight. If the Sentry meant to kill him, Namor would have been dead.

Why is it horrible writing? Sentry was all over the place power wise (this is well documented). One day he's getting tooled by Hercules, the next he's no selling Terrax's Axe or Thing's punches.

Getting tooled by Hercules was a Sentry not even trying to fight, but to reason with him. It was also somewhat of a comedic relief. The horrible writing was the Human Torch scarring the Sentry off because of his fire. Seriously? Its been a well known fact that Sentrys power source isn't solar based and we're to believe a character as powerful as the Sentry is afraid of fire when he's been through nukes and worse? Also, Namor using Simon as a baseball bat like that was over the top, but even if it did happen, where was Sentry during that time? Maybe he was watching Captain America kick the crap out of Iron Man. We all know that's possible.

The point isn't Sentry or his fluctuating power level, the point is that Namor tooled Simon. This isn't a fluke because when you compare their common foes, it's Namor that comes off looking FAR better. I was even kind enough to give examples. If you don't believe my take on those fights, just ask Abhi or Namorsubby or Carver or anyone else that saw the scans of those fights in context.

Namor got beat by the Thing recently. Underwater for cripes sake. I cant see the Thing ever doing anything like that to Simon. They both have low feats, but all i'm saying is that I don't feel Namor is obviously superior to Simon and I feel Wondermans highs are as good or better then Namors.

Namor is superior to Simon. Accept it and move on.

I don't feel he is. Just the opposite actually.

tkitna Senior Member

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, if you really want to compare fight between Simon and Namor, compare these two scenes.
Well just say that Abomination was merciful and didn't gave Simon a wedgie.

So Wonderman's solo series (which was written like a watered down Two-In-One) fight with the Abomination is the heights at which we're aiming for? The Simon that keeps talking to himself during fights in fear of him dying again like a little kid? Simon is better then that. Plus the fact, half of Namors fight with Abomination was in the water. Its not a great example at all.

I will admit this though, Simon is a secondary character if nothing else and he is written to lose most of the time unfortunately. Most of his high end feats are losses, but still good examples. A couple things he's done that I don't feel Namor is capable of is throwing down with classic Nefaria. Yeah, Simon got whipped up, but he was able to hurt him and do well. Hyperion flew him through a planet and into a sun. I don't feel Namor could have survived that.

Here's a classic strength feat that I cant possibly see Namor repeating, but its a Marvel Two-In-One so take it with a grain of sand..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/wondythingstrength1cr.jpg

They both do well or hold their own against Thor, Hulk, Hercules, etc,,,and that's why I think its a close fight. I just give Simon the edge because I feel his high end stuff is better then Namors.

To each their own. Peace

Warlord Yes, I am...

I just want to mention that in the scan with Vision Jugs and Hulk, Vision has already materialized (we can see Jugs beeing hurt) so that's why he was affected.
Other than that affecting the likes of Nefaria and Jugs leads to the conclusion that he would affect Namor. Simon is resistant due to ionic form but that's just it.
Mjolnir affecting vision was addressed to its majical qualities if I'm not mistaken.
Not saying Vision wins for sure, but it's much closer than some people here think

SamZED Senior Member

Originally posted by zopzop
bash
ONE SHOWING. Compare this to Venom manhandling him, yet getting manhandled by Namor (despite Venom using a weapon to weaken Namor before hand and taking Namor by surprise). Or their fights with Hercules. Simon gets his faced busted up, Namor more than holds his own. Or their fights with the Hulk. Simon used karate to hold his own vs Merged Hulk, while Namor has actually beaten Savage Hulk. Or when Namor "thwapped" Simon despite Simon having Sentry AND Ares helping him.

True, one showing doesn't change much, I just assumed WM has been upgraded after his return. Maybe I'm wrong as I haven't read anything with him since that fight with Rulk.
That was Gargan who fought Namor. He's like every symbiote's retarded younger brother.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by tkitna
So Wonderman's solo series (which was written like a watered down Two-In-One) fight with the Abomination is the heights at which we're aiming for? The Simon that keeps talking to himself during fights in fear of him dying again like a little kid? Simon is better then that. Plus the fact, half of Namors fight with Abomination was in the water. Its not a great example at all.
I will admit this though, Simon is a secondary character if nothing else and he is written to lose most of the time unfortunately. Most of his high end feats are losses, but still good examples. A couple things he's done that I don't feel Namor is capable of is throwing down with classic Nefaria. Yeah, Simon got whipped up, but he was able to hurt him and do well. Hyperion flew him through a planet and into a sun. I don't feel Namor could have survived that.
Here's a classic strength feat that I cant possibly see Namor repeating, but its a Marvel Two-In-One so take it with a grain of sand..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/wondythingstrength1cr.jpg
They both do well or hold their own against Thor, Hulk, Hercules, etc,,,and that's why I think its a close fight. I just give Simon the edge because I feel his high end stuff is better then Namors.
To each their own. Peace

Its from West Cost Avengers actually.

basilisk Senior Member

I'm pretty sure Simon was historically supposed to be stronger than Namor by a noticeable margin. Aside from just the usual handbook entries which placed Simon well above Namor and Thing levels in strength, Marvel often made a point of having narration and characters comparing Wonder Man's strength with Thor's, making Simon out to be comparable to or just short of Thor. In fact in their first encounter Namor compared Simon's strength to Thor's.

And in that first encounter Simon really did take it to Namor and eventually knocked him clean out with a punch. Not many guys can do that to a Namor just out of water.

Sure, Simon was for many years portrayed as a pacifist, lacking confidence and holding back, and that's what got him into trouble in many fights. And he had low showings, same as Namor has (like Namor being beaten and, frankly, humiliated by the Thing underwater). For that reason I'd give the more vicious Namor a decent chance in a fight. But a confident Simon can win it.

As for Vision, Namor's showings against heat have been pretty variable too. That, plus strength and intangibility/density control is a pretty good combo for the Vision against the likes of Namor, and I'd take Vision there.

Vision has taken Ms/Captain Marvel out at least once, but that was a long time ago.

Vision and Wondy have had some decent throwdowns also.

Overall I'd take an average Wonderman or Vision to win, but the four are close.

leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!

Originally posted by basilisk
I'm pretty sure Simon was historically supposed to be stronger than Namor by a noticeable margin. Aside from just the usual handbook entries which placed Simon well above Namor and Thing levels in strength, Marvel often made a point of having narration and characters comparing Wonder Man's strength with Thor's, making Simon out to be comparable to or just short of Thor. In fact in their first encounter Namor compared Simon's strength to Thor's.
And in that first encounter Simon really did take it to Namor and eventually knocked him clean out with a punch. Not many guys can do that to a Namor just out of water.
Sure, Simon was for many years portrayed as a pacifist, lacking confidence and holding back, and that's what got him into trouble in many fights. And he had low showings, same as Namor has (like Namor being beaten and, frankly, humiliated by the Thing underwater). For that reason I'd give the more vicious Namor a decent chance in a fight. But a confident Simon can win it.
As for Vision, Namor's showings against heat have been pretty variable too. That, plus strength and intangibility/density control is a pretty good combo for the Vision against the likes of Namor, and I'd take Vision there.
Vision has taken Ms/Captain Marvel out at least once, but that was a long time ago.
Vision and Wondy have had some decent throwdowns also.
Overall I'd take an average Wonderman or Vision to win, but the four are close.

👆

tkitna Senior Member

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its from West Cost Avengers actually.

Your right. Thanks. My bad.

carver9 Senior Member

Honestly...even though Namor is a physical monster, I can't see Hulk overpowering Wonderman with one hand like he did Namor recently.

zopzop Lord of the Great Abyss

Originally posted by carver9
Honestly...even though Namor is a physical monster, I can't see Hulk overpowering Wonderman with one hand like he did Namor recently.

I know right? Just like I can't see Black Widow beating Namor like she did Simon. See how that works?

carver9 Senior Member

Originally posted by zopzop
I know right? Just like I can't see Black Widow beating Namor like she did Simon. See how that works?

Hhhhmmmm...Good point. Namor still wins but you have to admit, Wonderman has been displayed recently as top tier.

zopzop Lord of the Great Abyss

Originally posted by carver9
Hhhhmmmm...Good point. Namor still wins but you have to admit, Wonderman has been displayed recently as top tier.

Really? What has he done recently that makes you believe that? Aside from beating a known jobber (aka Rulk).

I mean Grey Hulk pushed Simon's sh|t in. Current Hulk would destroy him.

leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!

zop, i'd point out your lowballing vs highballing, but it seems pointless. meh, i'll do it anyway--namor can survive heat of 3 human torches, simon gets punked by black widow. throw in the dismissal of rulk and your whole argument is simultaneously hilarious, against forum rules and transparent. triple crown ftw. 😂

zopzop Lord of the Great Abyss

Originally posted by leonidas
zop, i'd point out your lowballing vs highballing, but it seems pointless. meh, i'll do it anyway--namor can survive heat of 3 human torches, simon gets punked by black widow. throw in the dismissal of rulk and your whole argument is simultaneously hilarious, against forum rules and transparent. triple crown ftw. 😂

Why complain? You apparently ignore on panel proof and make up scenarios in your mind.

I gave you multiple examples of Namor punking enemies that made Simon their b|tch. Not just random enemies, but common foes they went up against.

Evidently this doesn't matter because Simon beat a known jobber! And you wonder why I respond the way I do. 🙄

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by zopzop
I know right? Just like I can't see Black Widow beating Namor like she did Simon. See how that works?

How did Black Widow beat Simon. What were the circumstances.

But you know that Simon is supposed to be significantly stronger than Namor right?
Namor is about Thing level (maybe slightly above) and Simon is supposed to be Thor level. Hulk is stronger than most on average so feats against him don't hold much evidence (since Hulk's strength is greatly variable).

zopzop Lord of the Great Abyss

Originally posted by h1a8
How did Black Widow beat Simon. What were the circumstances.
But you know that Simon is supposed to be significantly stronger than Namor right?
Namor is about Thing level (maybe slightly above) and Simon is supposed to be Thor level. Hulk is stronger than most on average so feats against him don't hold much evidence (since Hulk's strength is greatly variable).

You better back that claim up with on panel proof.

I'll wait.