Originally posted by Galan007
"Could" rival his own, not "does" rival his own.I'd chalk it up to hyperbole either way. Statements aside, Solar(even at his "average"😉 has preformed feats WELL outside of the X-O's ability. However, at his 'most powerful'(which is what this thread specifies), the X-O is absolutely nothing in comparison to Solar:
http://imgur.com/ZM6VhuU
http://imgur.com/QbDhsfI
http://imgur.com/CSk4wV9
http://imgur.com/1qKq5xi
that's the same issue where X-O gave him a fight (although Solar didn't want to kill him).....and their previous fight where it was clearly shown that they were comparable...and the fact that Solar refers to X-O's help sometimes to help him (i recall instances), if his power dwarfs X-O's why would he need him?
Yeah, when Acclaim took over, Solar got more powerful on average (although it was only a handful of issues), although that miniseries never saw him do anything impressive, as in, even universal level (only unity 2000 did). but throughout his v2 run along with the other valiant titles, it was pretty clear that he's comparable to X-O's. Perhaps not his equal, but comparable.
Originally posted by leonidasI haven't really decided yet, tbh. On one hand, team 2 has some absolutely ridiculous power on its side--on the other hand, team 1 has a guy who is capable of gesturely warping the power of GOD to his whim...
solar wins because galan said his feat was a humdinger. can't get better than that. 👆only slightly more seriously--i'll take team 1. really hard to tell who everyone else was taking...
Decisions, decisions... mmm
Originally posted by operator616Nah, the scans I posted are from the 'Revelations' one-shot. X-O and Solar didn't have any further interaction.
that's the same issue where X-O gave him a fight (although Solar didn't want to kill him).....
You're probably thinking of their fight in 'Hell on Earth' #3, wherein X-O's blasts were able to harm Solar. However, that was a faux Solar created when Frank and Helena merged their essences. Phil>>>faux Solar.
The arguments being made against Beyonder are not working.
Beyonder wtfcurbstomped Doom. Period.
Beyonder warped the concept of Death in the realm of Battleworld which is why Doom even survived the wtfcubstomp.
Beyonder THEN, put his offense and guard down,
Beyonder began helping Doom while studying him, then comes the PIS.
Bottomline: unless the op stipulated Beyonder with helping/studying his opponents coupled with Not being battle ready (guard down) ...
... highlighting the Doom pis is completely irrelevant.
--------------------------
As for Rachel ... 😂
*edit ... Team 1 for the stomp! Mxy and Beyonder together, wow ... then Scathan too? ouch.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The arguments being made against Beyonder are not working.Beyonder wtfcurbstomped Doom. Period.
He's got a point by referencing the FF #288 instance (the SW 2 tie in), where Doom staggered the Beyonder. That's one of the things he was referring to i think.
However, saying that someone like Solar of all people could solo PRB, WF Mxy and Scathan, is pretty hilarious and is completely baseless.
Originally posted by operator616In all honesty, WF Mxy has one of(if not THE) greatest-scale feats in all of comics, yet he preformed said feats so effortlessly that it's almost laughable.
However, saying that someone like Solar of all people could solo PRB, WF Mxy and Scathan, is pretty hilarious and is completely baseless.
Truly insane.
Originally posted by Mr MasterYou should report yourself. 👆
👆... 😆 ... lol, goodness, my name's attached to that, I gotta have Bada edit that immediately.
Originally posted by operator616
He's got a point by referencing the FF #288 instance (the SW 2 tie in), where Doom staggered the Beyonder. That's one of the things he was referring to i think.
There's other instances as you know, and it always comes back to the same thing,
they're trying to make a 50+ issue run involving GOD amongst ants, pis/silliness is a given in order to stretch the story that far.
Otherwise you got a boring read: like ... 'Beyonder raises his hand, end of story.'
Originally posted by operator616
However, saying that someone like Solar of all people could solo PRB, WF Mxy and Scathan, is pretty hilarious and is completely baseless.
Originally posted by operator616
There's also the part where we see Mxy and Bat mite in the Gemworld. Same Gemworld which was outright stated to exist outside of the multiverse in one of the letter pages of Tales of the Legion of Superheroes (which is between issue #314 and #354).
This is why it saddens me they never really portrayed Mxy as on this level of power again outside WF. He was dropped down to universal at best.
As for the battle, anyone on T2 could solo. All of the characters there are above the LT, who's above Lucifer/Michael level.
I thought the LT held multiverses in his hands?
Solar, while he has insane feats, is not even Skfayther-level on average, so he's irrelevant to the fight either way.
Yeah, for him it's like..one of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not the same.
Originally posted by SurturNo, his power was still depicted as multiversal(+) during the Emperor Joker arc. I can provide evidence if you'd like. 🙂
This is why it saddens me they never really portrayed Mxy as on this level of power again outside WF. He was dropped down to universal at best.
Originally posted by SurturHe held the embodiments of 2 megaverses(The Brothers) in his palm, yes.
I thought the LT held multiverses in his hands?
Originally posted by operator616Difference is I'm using Beyonder at his peak powers, and you're jumping all over the place with Solar while blatantly ignoring the rules of the OP.
If we're using Beyonder at his lowest showings, and Solar at his peak, then yes, Beyonder can be harmed, we saw that a multiversal power (Puma empwoered by the powers of the multiverse) was able to kill him. But i think you're overestimating the power of Solar. By (issue #49) he outright says that he can't create a single planet:http://i.imgur.com/31A1oDx.jpg
Just so that you're aware of his general power. That's his average. As opposed to Beyonder who's average is multiversal.
And you think Solar having "trouble" creating a planet is something relevant to his peak? The guy who destroyed and recreated all of Valiant? Yes, let's bring up his trouble with creating a planet. That'll show me.
Nope. And averages are irrelevant anyway when we're using his peak form. Unless you want to average out universal plus levels to planetary levels...
Originally posted by operator616
"inexperienced", you do realize that spider aliens were a continuous threat throughout the series, correct? Here's Solar's other half (who's exactly at half power) having problems with the spider aliens in issue #35:http://i.imgur.com/RTD8NQD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Wk5GELD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WoyixRO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q16c5ZN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BBgYhI4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fyu42ek.jpgI could just as easily pull scans of another instance where he's constantly having problems with the spider aliens.
And when he initially confronted them in issue #5 (iirc) he attributed his reasons not to inexperience but rather because he ran out of energy. That's always been the case. So not sure how inexperience has any relevance whatsoever here.
That's really great that he stated he was holding back. Unity happened around issues #13 and #14 of the Solar series, and believe me, he's had a plenty of low showings ever since.
As for X-O, he outright states in issue #17, that X-O's power rivals his own:
http://i.imgur.com/DptmkFf.jpg
Saying that XO is so below Solar is not true, considering how their fights faired, and since he always sees X-O as a peer, and since he always goes for X-O to help in dire situations, etc.. etc..
So you figure someone just getting their Godlike powers is the same as having it at his absolute peak? And he beat him pretty easily once he applied himself anyway. And you just showed an aspect of him that he created beating up a bunch of people with XO armors.
Other low showings happening after the series against doesn't mean he was operating at his peak. Like you yourself have tried to point out that he was Surfer and Thor level on average. And if he's Surfer level on average, but multiversal level when going all out, then what exactly is relevant to a thread where he's supposed to be at his peak? Just because they exist doesn't mean he was operating at full power. He wasn't a "one" arc villain that stayed at a static power.
Lest we start using Classic Beyonder to start meaning Post Retcon Beyonder... I mean, that's the logic you're pedaling. Lower levels are more relevant than the actual peak. And I'm using peak showings for Beyonder, are you doing the same for Solar?
Anything to try and downgrade the character though, eh? But yes, the multiversal level character is only XO level. That seems legit here.
Raping XO casually when he applies himself in the what same issue your scan is from is definitely the way to show the two are comparable in power.
Originally posted by operator616Come and take a look fella.
.......What?Mothergod is a multiversal being? I mean, seriously? Id like to hear the explanation to that....It makes complete sense though, considering Mothergod spent a thousand years making a weapon to destroy the universe....right?
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Solar/mothergodpower.jpg
Oh, but the entire point of Unity was for her to rewrite the timelines as well.
Multiversal is a proven level. As shown by the scan and the premise of Unity. Just because you don't like Solar doesn't change the facts. Not to mention Solar on his own destroyed many universes anyway.
I'm not sure you even read Unity tbh. Go have a peak friend. It will change your life. 😉
Originally posted by operator616Call it an alternate version if you want, but Mxy from the Magog saga went to the same 5th Dimension the "Canon" version did. And presumably the one from WF as well following this. Unless you want to prove the two are completely separated.
Mxy has alternate versions, so that point is moot.
Sorry, but the two seem like the same version to me. Unless you want to show that WF is more canon to the common one while the one from The Kingdom isn't based on beliefs. Or if you believe all three are different versions because... beliefs?
And right now it appears you're working strongly on that "belief" angle if you think they're somehow different versions. But if they are, then again, same power level. Just WF gave him more time to showcase his powers.
Originally posted by operator616Not surprised you couldn't piece two things together tbh. He can sense everything in the universe. Can sense all sorts of energy, as well as manipulate. It doesn't take rocket doctor to understand he could sense the hyperspace. Not to mention it probably falls under common knowledge anyway considering even Zopzop knows of it.
Hmm...remind when Solar used this "cosmic awareness" of his to exploit a weakness, because i honestly don't recall it...must be missing something.Solar's ability to manipulate everything in the universe....? I don't even know what to respond to that. Because that's just utterly false.
As for Scathan: So basically, you have nothing to suggest he's anywhere below LT, something which was shown on panel? Cheapshot or not, it doesn't matter, he literally defeated a being more powerful than LT and then restrained him in that muzzle. But if you're implying that any random celestial can cheapshot Protege FTW...
Damaging his sensing ability shown in comics isn't the best way to go about it either. A large portion of his powers revolve around sensing powers. Hell the guy regularly goes in a state where he can see everything in the universe as energy anyway. Something which he can then manipulate.
Are you seriously questioning if a guy who recreated a multiverse controls all energy?
Meh. Let's see statements about how he can control anything.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Solar/vsolarpower9.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/solar74.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/solar19.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/solar20.jpg
Making a judgment about how his armor is much different or such and such just because he cheapshotted a being above LT is quite the assumption. That doesn't make him suddenly drastically different in makeup than any other Celestial.
Also, the "Celestial Muzzle" was just that, a Celestial muzzle. It seemed it was just a common bit of Celestial tech, which farther throws the whole thing into question. Unless we assume the Celestial muzzle was just unique to Scathan and then it defeats the purpose of calling it just that in the first place.
Knowing that Galactus planet eating tech can defeat a being above LT though might back up that Celestial tech can entrap a being above LT though...
Originally posted by operator616I know it makes you nervous, but try to think about it from a non bias stance. His entire thing is about draining energy. He has done so before. Common knowledge of Beyonder on the only two arcs he appeared have his defeats to do with getting his energy drained. So if we can count by twos and tie our shoes, it seems we should be able to add in that Solar absorbing energy in a fight against a being vulnerable to getting his energy drained in a fight is a strong possibility.
Yes, that seems plausible based on his one showing in Deathmate....however, based on his 100 or so average appearances, id say the more likely scenario is that Solar is gonna get oneshotted into oblivion.
Now once he does that to Beyonder, then it's smooth sailing for him against Mxy and Scathan.
Originally posted by Galan007Good show Galan. But you're forgetting that Solar is obviously Silver Surfer and Thor level in this thread.
"Could" rival his own, not "does" rival his own.I'd chalk it up to hyperbole either way. Statements aside, Solar(even at his "average"😉 has preformed feats WELL outside of the X-O's ability. However, at his 'most powerful'(which is what this thread specifies), the X-O is absolutely nothing in comparison to Solar:
http://imgur.com/ZM6VhuU
http://imgur.com/QbDhsfI
http://imgur.com/CSk4wV9
http://imgur.com/1qKq5xi
Originally posted by Galan007
[B]No, his power was still depicted as multiversal(+) during the Emperor Joker arc. I can provide evidence if you'd like. 🙂
What did he do that was multiversal? I remember he blinked colors out of existence and stuff. I know at the end Mxy says he rebuilt everything or something, is that what you mean?
Originally posted by Galan007Still a pussy though. Made even worse once Solar gets Beyonder's power.
In all honesty, WF Mxy has one of(if not THE) greatest-scale feats in all of comics, yet he preformed said feats so effortlessly that it's almost laughable.Truly insane.
You should report yourself. 👆
Hell, I think deep down everyone agrees with me. Even Operator. Especially Operator.
Originally posted by Mr MasterI never thought I'd see the day when MM used a Phoenix in defense of someone's durability. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
That's just dumb writing, cause Rachel let off her full fury on Beyonder, and he didn't even flinch.
Owen let off that "several Billion Dimension" annihilation blast, and it only made Beyonder cough once.
(both of them: easily > Doom)There's other instances as you know, and it always comes back to the same thing,
they're trying to make a 50+ issue run involving GOD amongst ants, pis/silliness is a given in order to stretch the story that far.Otherwise you got a boring read: like ... 'Beyonder raises his hand, end of story.'
👆
Truth be told, I was just throwing out low feats to piss Op off though. Though that's not to say he still won't get his ass drained here.
