Originally posted by Branlor SwiftI never thought I'd see the day when MM used a Phoenix in defense of someone's durability. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
So the mighty, ... are still.
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftTruth be told, I was just throwing out low feats to piss Op off though.
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftThough that's not to say he still won't get his ass drained here.
... I don't think so. Like, ever.
Originally posted by SurturVery early in the story, Mxy stated that Emperor Joker's influence had transcended the prime multiverse, and extended into the higher dimensional planes as well:
What did he do that was multiversal? I remember he blinked colors out of existence and stuff. I know at the end Mxy says he rebuilt everything or something, is that what you mean?
And as we know: most higher-dimensional planes(like the 4th World/dimension) are infinitely more vast than the prime 3d multiverse:
http://imgur.com/aH3xvAc
http://imgur.com/1kdcIDX
Orion: "All mortal universes exist inside bubbles in the one reality of New Genesis."
Joker exhibited some of this power by whimsically destroying and recreating the universe with an ACME bomb:
http://imgur.com/AG4gH1H
http://imgur.com/UwE2SAU
http://imgur.com/DztVoX2
He also overtook/replaced Spectre(God's Vengeance), before warping the Spectre entity itself into a parakeet and imprisoning it in a birdcage:
http://imgur.com/n4xOUWI
http://imgur.com/SjOZ6EX
And by the end of the arc(after he began realizing his potential) Joker had nearly succeeded in collapsing all of reality into a single point of infinite gravity:
http://imgur.com/iBrunnL
(Similar to what Darkseid was doing in Final Crisis, but on an infinitely larger scale.)
And just so we're clear: 'all of reality' in that arc=the multiverse:
http://i.imgur.com/Cy6mxSC.jpg
Spectre: "Everything will unravel. Not just your earth--not just your universe--but everything that is, was, or will be."
To further solidify the fact that DC still defined itself as a multiverse at the time:
http://i.imgur.com/a45yMHo.jpg
The above scan is from JSA #13, published 1 month before the EJ arc started.
Suffice to say, EJ was multiversal+, yet was still a n00b with Mxy's powers.
Originally posted by operator616Undoubtedly. Though I was going to ask you the same thing considering how blatantly wrong you were on so many things concerning Solar. And average is irrelevant when we're speaking strictly of him at his best. But go on and tell me how using Solar at weaker forms is much different than using Beyonder Post Retcon. I'll await with bated breath.
^ Im curious, did you read the whole series? If so, go ahead and tell me exactly where you put him on average...and see whether my claim or yours is off. I can fully substantiate my claim though. We'll get to that.Just a note though, That "megaversal" feat is from the same arc where Void along with that Solar were the ones who were threatening those two multiverses (seems legit). And Supreme hurt Eclipse, same Eclipse who gave Solar a fight in that same time period. Just something to think about regarding Solar's average performance. Something which is fully ignored in this thread.
Pretty funny considering you're questioning his megaversal feat just because Supreme hurt the character he was fighting, yet not him. I guess you agree that we should ignore Beyonder's feats because Doom rocked the shit out of him? Guess Solar absorbing his powers won't be much help for Solar afterall...
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, I only mentioned Rachel, cause you were using that against Beyonder.So the mighty, ... are still.
I figured. But then I noticed so much logic being used and it worried me a bit.
Unless this is Beyonder with his guard down, helping/studying Solar ... (as in the Doom case)
... I don't think so. Like, ever.
Spoiler:
Go back and read the first letter of every paragraph of every response from me in this thread starting at this post and ending at my last one. Just click the blue "post" link in my quote to begin your journey
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Also, the "Celestial Muzzle" was just that, a Celestial muzzle. It seemed it was just a common bit of Celestial tech, which farther throws the whole thing into question. Unless we assume the Celestial muzzle was just unique to Scathan and then it defeats the purpose of calling it just that in the first place.
Also, Scathan first stomped Protege with a mega blast of energy ...
... and THEN, ... he manifested the Celestial muzzle to contain Protege.
Afterwards, the Celestial Muzzle was taken off,
and Scathan was still able to contain Protege with his bare hands.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Knowing that Galactus planet eating tech can defeat a being above LT though might back up that Celestial tech can entrap a being above LT though...
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
a fight against a being vulnerable to getting his energy drained in a fight is a strong possibility.
I believe this is Beyonder battle ready.
In which case, unless anyone can highlight an instance where Beyonder got his energy drained in battle, this is a moot point to continue riding.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Difference is I'm using Beyonder at his peak powers, and you're jumping all over the place with Solar while blatantly ignoring the rules of the OP.And you think Solar having "trouble" creating a planet is something relevant to his peak? The guy who destroyed and recreated all of Valiant? Yes, let's bring up his trouble with creating a planet. That'll show me.
Nope. And averages are irrelevant anyway when we're using his peak form. Unless you want to average out universal plus levels to planetary levels...
The rules of the OP is to use the most powerful version, which is the Valiant/Acclaim, in the same sense that we're using Pre-retcon Beyonder not just pre-retcon highest showings Beyonder. Pretty simple.
The guy who destroyed and recreated all valiant? When was that exactly, remind me? If you're referring to Unity 2000, where he destroyed the multiverse, then you should know it was outright stated he only destroyed a universe and the others would follow like dominos. So yeah. But aside from that, he warped all realities throughout the multiverse unintentionally.
This scan is very much relevant since it took a great portion of his life, if he truly capable of recreating a planet from nothingness he wouldn't have bothered with all the time travel back in time and helping the development of the planet along.
Already explained.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You're against not using him at his height. And him nigh screwing around with them while destroying thousands of them without too much issue isn't exactly the best way to go about downgrading him. Though good job showing him absorbing a sun when I earlier said that planet absorbing tech absorbed the entirety of Beyonder's powers. Also good job showing his Destroyer aspect destroying a ton of XO armors... 👆So you figure someone just getting their Godlike powers is the same as having it at his absolute peak? And he beat him pretty easily once he applied himself anyway. And you just showed an aspect of him that he created beating up a bunch of people with XO armors.
Other low showings happening after the series against doesn't mean he was operating at his peak. Like you yourself have tried to point out that he was Surfer and Thor level on average. And if he's Surfer level on average, but multiversal level when going all out, then what exactly is relevant to a thread where he's supposed to be at his peak? Just because they exist doesn't mean he was operating at full power. He wasn't a "one" arc villain that stayed at a static power.
Lest we start using Classic Beyonder to start meaning Post Retcon Beyonder... I mean, that's the logic you're pedaling. Lower levels are more relevant than the actual peak. And I'm using peak showings for Beyonder, are you doing the same for Solar?
Anything to try and downgrade the character though, eh? But yes, the multiversal level character is only XO level. That seems legit here.
Raping XO casually when he applies himself in the what same issue your scan is from is definitely the way to show the two are comparable in power.
Without too much of an issue...? You do realize that you're arguing that Solar would solo PRB, Mxy and Scathan, so you really expect me to believe that a guy who takes time in destroying some spider aliens, would be able to do anything to those 3? However, here's how he faired against them at the beginning of the series:
http://i.imgur.com/IyVXTQD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8Nn6reA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DSHJxrs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/61bJkwe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OliVAV9.jpg
That's the guy who's gonna solo beyonder, Mxy and Scathan, people 😂
I already said that it was Solar at half power, which he actually said. And that's how he remains for the rest of the series. But half the power which can beat PRB alone....should be more than enough to beat some spider aliens, no?
It's relevant because we're using a specific most powerful version of the character, but based on average showings. I already explained that point clearly.
Im using an average Beyonder and comparing him to an Average Solar, in which case, Solar is horribly and hilariously outmatched.
No, but Solar outright admitting that his power is rivaled by X-O's is. And he never raped X-O casually, when he applied himself. He was just increasing the temperature inside the armor, which affects Eric. However,looking back at the battle between X-O and Solar in issue #7, it all becomes pretty clear. Observe and learn:
http://i.imgur.com/BR80u55.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0VM6dwN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pr6lwkX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lDuI4LS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VXMhspf.jpg
X-O literaly could have killed Solar if he hadn't recharged. And yet, he's not on X-O's level...no, Solar is multiversal, and can solo Beyonder and the others. That seems to make much more sense.
Also, im pretty sure a Solar got killed by some space fleet, i think it was in a Rai issue, im searching for it, but not remembering the exact issue. I remember that issue clearly showcasing on what power level he operates too.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Come and take a look fella.http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Solar/mothergodpower.jpg
Oh, but the entire point of Unity was for her to rewrite the timelines as well.
Multiversal is a proven level. As shown by the scan and the premise of Unity. Just because you don't like Solar doesn't change the facts. Not to mention Solar on his own destroyed many universes anyway.
I'm not sure you even read Unity tbh. Go have a peak friend. It will change your life. 😉
😂 And you say how much i read of Unity....
Damn. How much have you really read from Unity, is the real question here. Because im betting you didn't read jack.
Because you see, it was shown in detail how Mothergod was preparing throughout the ages (until she reached the 4000 year) to actually achieve her plan:
http://i.imgur.com/65Q4DBp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/b5dnYm3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FBSfl3a.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uTiUo1n.jpg
And here she literally explains how she was going to do it -- through a machine which rips a hole in the space/time continuum:
http://i.imgur.com/5FJMBUg.jpg
By all means though, continue to pretend like she's some sort of multiversal being -- just like you claim solar is -- and provide these multiversal feats of hers. However, multiversal beings usually don't get killed by Rai's sword, for one. Who actually attempted to kill her with it, and her son Albert eventually.
This begs the question how much you really know of Solar, actually. Which is becoming pretty clear.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Not surprised you couldn't piece two things together tbh. He can sense everything in the universe. Can sense all sorts of energy, as well as manipulate. It doesn't take rocket doctor to understand he could sense the hyperspace. Not to mention it probably falls under common knowledge anyway considering even Zopzop knows of it.Damaging his sensing ability shown in comics isn't the best way to go about it either. A large portion of his powers revolve around sensing powers. Hell the guy regularly goes in a state where he can see everything in the universe as energy anyway. Something which he can then manipulate.
Are you seriously questioning if a guy who recreated a multiverse controls all energy?
Meh. Let's see statements about how he can control anything.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Solar/vsolarpower9.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/solar74.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/solar19.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/solar20.jpgMaking a judgment about how his armor is much different or such and such just because he cheapshotted a being above LT is quite the assumption. That doesn't make him suddenly drastically different in makeup than any other Celestial.
Also, the "Celestial Muzzle" was just that, a Celestial muzzle. It seemed it was just a common bit of Celestial tech, which farther throws the whole thing into question. Unless we assume the Celestial muzzle was just unique to Scathan and then it defeats the purpose of calling it just that in the first place.
So basically you have nothing and as such resort to insults? Pretty convenient tactic. Lol if you think he can sense everything in the universe, because as you know, there have been no instances where he has been surprised even by humans or spider aliens or some sentient crystals....no. for some reason, he'll use his "cosmic awareness" to exploit a weakeness which he's never done. good assumption, but baseless, as always.
Are you seriously saying that Solar created a multiverse? Lol, for real? Don't tell me that you are basing this off him creating alternate timelines, because anyone who ACTUALLY READ the story, would know that it was explained that anyone who enters the time stream would unintentionally create a divergent reality, Solar did just that: entered the timestream, and created divergent realities. Seriously, read the comics. Especially before you accuse me of not reading them.
Also, you do understand that this place he goes into is just that: A place, from where he sees everything, similar to how in DC has Metron see from an "aleph point" (i think it was called) everything there in existence.
I honestly don't see what you're arguing regarding Scathan. It was established that he overpowered Protege, confirmed in a bio. Period.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I know it makes you nervous, but try to think about it from a non bias stance. His entire thing is about draining energy. He has done so before. Common knowledge of Beyonder on the only two arcs he appeared have his defeats to do with getting his energy drained. So if we can count by twos and tie our shoes, it seems we should be able to add in that Solar absorbing energy in a fight against a being vulnerable to getting his energy drained in a fight is a strong possibility.Now once he does that to Beyonder, then it's smooth sailing for him against Mxy and Scathan.
"Makes me nervous"? now why would you say that? Im perfectly aware of Solar's limits, which is why im not going to buy that stupid notion that Solar is going to drain the Beyonder, based on his highest showing and Beyonder's lowest.
Lol, sure thing.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Undoubtedly. Though I was going to ask you the same thing considering how blatantly wrong you were on so many things concerning Solar. And average is irrelevant when we're speaking strictly of him at his best. But go on and tell me how using Solar at weaker forms is much different than using Beyonder Post Retcon. I'll await with bated breath.Pretty funny considering you're questioning his megaversal feat just because Supreme hurt the character he was fighting, yet not him. I guess you agree that we should ignore Beyonder's feats because Doom rocked the shit out of him? Guess Solar absorbing his powers won't be much help for Solar afterall...
Oh if there is anyone who's hilariously wrong here, it's definitely you. You're literally just nitpicking scans from comics without any context whatsoever. But you'll see shortly just how wrong you are.
Considering that the OP was saying every character is at their highest citing someone like WF Mxy and Classic(PR) beyonder, he's saying that we use the most powerful version, which is Valiant/Acclaim as opposed to Gold Key version. Had the OP said that everyone at their highest, like Classic high showings only Beyonder, id agree. But as it is, it means we're using the most powerful version with average showings.
No, i questioned also his megaversal feat because Void was perfoming a multiversal feat, a level she is nowhere near that. That whole crossover seemed pretty odd. But whatever, i acknowledged his feat there, but said that it is inconsistent. If we're using a high showings only, Solar, then it'd be a different story.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Hell, I think deep down everyone agrees with me. Even Operator. Especially Operator.
That's funny, because i see it completely ridiculous that you hold Solar in such high regards. No kidding. I read his every appearance, and i will say with full confidence that he's nowhere near multiversal, universal, or even galaxy-level, on average.
Originally posted by operator616Go on.
But you'll see shortly just how wrong you are.
Originally posted by Mr MasterEither him, or it could be talking about
^^ Beautiful response opr, but unfortunately you've also become a victim of the Bran.
I guess with time you'll understand what that means, most been there at one time or another.That aside, what the hell is this? Is the Beyonder coming back?
Anyone know about this?
Spoiler:
Cosmic Man/Dr Midas
Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ Beautiful response opr, but unfortunately you've also become a victim of the Bran.
I guess with time you'll understand what that means, most been there at one time or another.That aside, what the hell is this? Is the Beyonder coming back?
Anyone know about this?
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftSpoiler:
Go back and read the first letter of every paragraph of every response from me in this thread starting at this post and ending at my last one. Just click the blue "post" link in my quote to begin your journey
Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ Beautiful response opr, but unfortunately you've also become a victim of the Bran.
I guess with time you'll understand what that means, most been there at one time or another.
😂 Damn. It took me till now to see it.
I hope the Trapper thread wasn't a hoax too.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17Speaking of Bendis...
Richard Rider.
Dick punched Thanos so hard out of the Cancerverse that his shockwave also blew Starlord out and knocked him back too far.
Someway Thanos is getting shit on here, so I'm wondering if both heroes get written up or just one. Maybe Dick broke his neck hitting a rock.
