Originally posted by Nephthys
Funny, in the Book of Sith Sidious refers to Maul as nothing but an animal who could never hope to expand beyond a limited set of tasks.
Plagueis and Palpatine were both impressed with Maul's combat ability regardless. Palpatine also regarded Vader as just a "minor masterpiece" in the Creation of Monsters.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Enough that he goes from clearly below Dark Council member level to comfortably above it. As I said, he had incredible potential within him. Which obviously indicates a great deal of growth left before him. And he had more time than most Sith to harness his power.
What is so damn hard in listing some feats to show for his power instead of some vague quotes and implications?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Maul can do the same what? We see in Revan that Scourge gets a sizeable boost from drawing off other Sith's rage and hate.
Feed on rage and fear. It's a common sith ability, not something exclusive to Scourge.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Of course shield generator's can withstand direct kinetic force.
Kenobi has pushed right through them.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Due to Savage's lack of skill, which isn't a factor here. Savage was still stronger than Maul is. I merely pointed out that Scourge is likely stronger than Maul is.
Maul still parried the impact of Savage's saber strikes quite casually. One of the only force users shown to handle Savage's strength without much trouble.
Now, are you going to give me feats to show that scourge is stronger than Maul, or are you expecting me to believe it to be the case because he is big and lots of people called him strong? This has been your style of debating for months now.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Conclusion: Scourge has an exceeding grasp of combat skill.
Your opinion: Scourge is Maul's level.
Originally posted by Nephthys
As for Ventress, can you truly say that she didn't benefit from dueling all those people? Of course she did, direct combat experience has a known ability to be beneficial. Which is kindergarten obvious.
Whether it did or not is not the point. Point is, she isn't any more skilled than many of the council members who don't have a kill count to their name, and it's not her kill count that makes her impressive, which is why you don't see it brought up in debates often. Who cares about a bunch of nameless nobodies?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Wasn't he only one of the most skilled sith "appentices" in history? Which puts him on par with, er, Visas Marr maybe? Of course, Scourge isn't a mere apprentice, so that quote means nothing to him.
That's only one quote to Maul's name.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It only says "one of". It's impressive to a point, but it's only good enough to show us that Maul is a skilled Sith. What, is he one of the most skilled.... hundred Sith? Million? That quote by itself doesn't put Maul above any notable Sith.
The quote along with his skill feats, and the skilled opponents he's defeated puts him ahead of most, yes. It gives more depth regarding his skill more than Scourge killing a bunch of nameless/featless jedi throughout his hundreds of years of existence does his.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Maul wasn't the most dangerous sith apprentice in history, he was only one of them. And that means nothing in regards to Scourge, who isn't a freaking apprentice. 🙄
I'm pretty sure it said the most. Love how you keep harping on that single quote I gave out as if it's the only one he has. Does Scourge have any to his name, or are opinions from Neph now being considered as accolades to be used on vs forums?
Originally posted by Nephthys
And here you're not even addressing the point, only throwing out Maul accolades as if they trump Scourge. If you're not going to try don't bother replying, because I won't.
LMAO
What points? You haven't made any. You've listed a bunch of stuff that implies Scourge is very skilled and powerful, and then tried to throw off your opinion that these implications means he is above Maul as fact.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, because that quote [b]actually definitively puts him above certain people. Maul being "one of the best evar" is ambiguous and vague as phuck. It's basically worthless in regards to putting Maul above other Sith. I could be called one of the best debaters in history, but that doesn't mean I could beat Socrates in an argument, or thousands of others either.[/B]
If someone of today is said to be one of the best debaters in history and has won debates against other very good debaters, while someone from the early 1900s was said to have won lots of debates, I'd think of the person of today as being superior.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Maul isn't said to have beaten either of those two due to his technical skill. He beat Qui-Gon by being younger, more powerful and fitter than him.
And here is where you begin to lowball the character you're arguing against because of your inability to prove your assertions.
Qui Gon had the help of Kenobi which made up for his lack of youth. Jin was still skilled. His skill didn't fade, and he still lost.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And Anoon has nothing to his name other than losing to Maul and his apprentices fangirlish opinion, so color me unimpressed.
I guess it'd only be impressive if Maul killed a thousand Anoons, right?
Originally posted by Nephthys
He forced a concussed Kenobi to retreat after he'd beaten the crap out of him while he was tied up and Don Moch'd him. And beating a featless racist stereotype doesn't suggest he can beat Scourge either.
Prove that Kenobi was concussed. I can pretty much say the same about the rage enhanced Maul who Sidious beat, considering he had just been knocked unconscious by Sidious' force push.
Fact is, Maul was very rusty, and had just received a pair of legs from Talzin to which he wasn't even yet accustomed to. These are disadvantages of Maul's that can be proven and were visible in his first fight against CW Kenobi.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And beating a featless racist stereotype doesn't suggest he can beat Scourge either.
Oh, but Scourge beating a thousand of nameless and featless jedi and sith suggests he can beat Maul?
Originally posted by Nephthys
I've never argued that Maul isn't skilled. Of course he has accolades and context for his skill. I just really don't see how they measure up to Scourge's. Despite being pushed to his limits and having greater power, Maul's skill isn't enough for him to beat Kenobi. It won't be enough for him to beat Scourge.
Maul turned down plenty of opportunities to kill Kenobi. Intrepid has posted the source that pretty much confirms this several times. Maul has gotten the best of Kenobi more times than not.
You haven't even provided anything to suggest Scourge can defeat Kenobi let alone defeat Maul.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Maul didn't regenerate half his body, he used the Force to create a mechanical spider torso and legs. That's like, not even close to the same thing. 😬
You're right. I was looking at certain picture wrong. However, you do realize Maul used the force to build a set of spider-legs when he should have been unconscious from having his body cut in half, right? He used the force in a very refined way while severely injured. Let me guess, Scourge can do this too because a bunch or people said he had very refined TK abilities and a high level of pain tolerance, right?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Do you seriously disagree that it would make Scourge that skilled, or are you just not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt for pretty obvious reasons?
Never said it didn't make Scourge more skilled, but killing a bunch of nameless/featless nobodies does not suggest he is as skilled as one of the most skilled sith in history--a title Scourge does not have to his name.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Either way it's more than an opinion.
No, it's your opinion that he's Maul level.
Originally posted by Nephthys
If you want to ignore evidence that's cool as long as you're upfront about it.
Evidence of his skill and power is not proof that he's Maul's level, and neither is your opinion
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I'm obviously not going to do that because you don't accept the one I gave you and Scourge has limited exposure on that front.
Well, I can't help that. When he has more exposure, then we can talk. Until then, I don't give two shits about your opinion.
Wasn't he only one of the most skilled sith "appentices" in history? Which puts him on par with, er, Visas Marr maybe? Of course, Scourge isn't a mere apprentice, so that quote means nothing to him.Maul wasn't the most dangerous sith apprentice in history, he was only one of them. And that means nothing in regards to Scourge, who isn't a freaking apprentice. :roll eyes:
Maul is a Sith Lord. You can say all you want about his status being little more than Palpatine's personal assassin, but I could point out that Scourge is in the exact same position under an inferior master.
Also:
"One of the most skilled and deadly warriors in Sith history, Darth Sidious' apprentice took part in the first encounter between Jedi Knight and Sith warrior for more than 1,000 years in the Battle for Naboo."
-Official Star Wars Fact File #1
"As a Sith devotee, Darth Maul drew his power from the dark side of the Force. He was one of the most highly trained Sith in the history of the order."
-Official Star Wars Fact File #1
"Darth Maul is Darth Sidious's apprentice and one of the most dangerous and highly trained Sith in the history of the Order."
-Star Wars: Character Encyclopedia
Originally posted by NewGuy01will you marry me?
Maul is a Sith Lord. You can say all you want about his status being little more than Palpatine's personal assassin, but I could point out that Scourge is in the exact same position under an inferior master.Also:
"One of the most skilled and deadly warriors in Sith history, Darth Sidious' apprentice took part in the first encounter between Jedi Knight and Sith warrior for more than 1,000 years in the Battle for Naboo."
-Official Star Wars Fact File #1
"As a Sith devotee, Darth Maul drew his power from the dark side of the Force. He was one of the most highly trained Sith in the history of the order."
-Official Star Wars Fact File #1
"Darth Maul is Darth Sidious's apprentice and one of the most dangerous and highly trained Sith in the history of the Order."
-Star Wars: Character Encyclopedia
@SIDIOUS_66
You really need to educate yourself about the ground realities of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire.
Lord Scourge thrived in a far more competitive environment than Maul could ever hope to. I get the "one of the most trained" argument in favor of Maul but this proves nothing much in the grand scheme of things, their can be like thousands of others who would fit this description perfectly including Lord Scourge.
Lord Scourge rose to prominence in an environment where competition was cutthroat and threats were ample. A Sith Lord have to rely on everything in him to succeed in this environment, not solely on strength factor itself. Maul was more of a warrior then a tactician and his chances are slim to succeed in an environment that Lord Scourge thrived in.
Anyways, Emperor Vitiate literally transformed Lord Scourge in to one of his strongest servants with his experiments. An example of this development is in Revan novel itself. Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia confirms that Emperor Vitiate enhanced Lord Scourge's warrior-ship abilities as well since this was vital for his survival in the role of Emperor's Wrath, which is one of the toughest roles for a Sith Lord to be assigned to. Keeping a check on the whole Empire and assassinating potential enemies in any part of the galaxy is not a matter of joke by any stretch of imagination and many powerful Sith may not have survived in this role without support from Emperor Vitiate himself.
Lord Scourge, at his prime, struck down over a 1000 Sith and Jedi in combat situations which is incredible display of strength and power and an achievement that is unlikely to be eclipsed even by the greatest of the heroes of the mythos.
It makes no sense to put Lord Scourge and Maul in the same ballpark. I would argue that even the likes of Dooku cannot be compared to Lord Scourge in warrior-ship ability and achievement aspects. Lord Scourge had risen to be among the greatest of the Sith in galactic history as evident from his achievements, their are few who match him.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDGaylord shut up
@SIDIOUS_66You really need to educate yourself about the ground realities of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire.
Lord Scourge thrived in a far more competitive environment than Maul could ever hope to. I get the "one of the most trained" argument in favor of Maul but this proves nothing much in the grand scheme of things, their can be like thousands of others who would fit this description perfectly including Lord Scourge.
Lord Scourge rose to prominence in an environment where competition was cutthroat and threats were ample. A Sith Lord have to rely on everything in him to succeed in this environment, not solely on strength factor itself. Maul was more of a warrior then a tactician and his chances are slim to succeed in an environment that Lord Scourge thrived in.
Anyways, Emperor Vitiate literally transformed Lord Scourge in to one of his strongest servants with his experiments. An example of this development is in Revan novel itself. Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia confirms that Emperor Vitiate enhanced Lord Scourge's warrior-ship abilities as well since this was vital for his survival in the role of Emperor's Wrath, which is one of the toughest roles for a Sith Lord to be assigned to. Keeping a check on the whole Empire and assassinating potential enemies in any part of the galaxy is not a matter of joke by any stretch of imagination and many powerful Sith may not have survived in this role without support from Emperor Vitiate himself.
Lord Scourge, at his prime, struck down over a 1000 Sith and Jedi in combat situations which is incredible display of strength and power and an achievement that is unlikely to be eclipsed even by the greatest of the heroes of the mythos.
It makes no sense to put Lord Scourge and Maul in the same ballpark. I would argue that even the likes of Dooku cannot be compared to Lord Scourge in warrior-ship ability and achievement aspects. Lord Scourge had risen to be among the greatest of the Sith in galactic history as evident from his achievements, their are few who match him.