Khan Noonien Singh vs. Palpatine

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wrong. Prove it.

Anakin interfered. One on one in a fair fight Windu beat Palpatine. Maul and Savage are both weaker so no surprise there. Yeah, he died at the hands of Vader. His own apprentice took him out and he was completely caught off guard.

https://youtu.be/C-DeI3ohVbY

1) He explicitly takes a kill shot at Luke at 1:30.

2. 1:34-1:35 he attempts to trample Luke

3) 1:54 he turns on the carbon freezing so he can freeze Luke

4) 2:06- 2:07 He takes a death slash at Luke's legs

5) 2:10-2:12 he attempts to decapitate Luke but Luke uses a valve to spray carbon into his face

6) 3:36-3:43 he attempts to use the force to TK throw an object toward Luke and then lunge toward him.

7) 4:52 he attempts to decapitate Luke

8) 4:53-5:19 he attempts to just plow thorugh aggressively and break Luke's defense even pushing him down with physical strikes

9) 5:27 he brings his blade where Luke's body used to be

10) 5:28-5:30 he aims for Luke's neck and upper torso part of his body in all of his strikes

11) 5:33 he tries to kill Luke once again

12) 5:35 he chops of Luke's hand

13) 5:42-5:45 Vader explicitly states don't make me destroy you which shows that he would have if he had to

Even in that fight Sidious could have beaten him. He ad plenty of opportunities to kill him with both the blade and the force. He could have used force lightning when maces back was turned. Or used force choke or force push. Or when he had mace at saber point why didn't he just lunge through his heart and be don't with it? Or when he and Mace had their momentary pause he could have used the force to spin him against the windu and then shock him with lightning, or use his speed to do a quick crosscut to windus torso. So really Sidious could have ended the duel whenever he wanted. The only reason the duel even happen was because Samuel L Jackson wanted a spectacular death.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
https://youtu.be/C-DeI3ohVbY

1) He explicitly takes a kill shot at Luke at 1:30.

2. 1:34-1:35 he attempts to trample Luke

3) 1:54 he turns on the carbon freezing so he can freeze Luke

4) 2:06- 2:07 He takes a death slash at Luke's legs

5) 2:10-2:12 he attempts to decapitate Luke but Luke uses a valve to spray carbon into his face

6) 3:36-3:43 he attempts to use the force to TK throw an object toward Luke and then lunge toward him.

7) 4:52 he attempts to decapitate Luke

8) 4:53-5:19 he attempts to just plow thorugh aggressively and break Luke's defense even pushing him down with physical strikes

9) 5:27 he brings his blade where Luke's body used to be

10) 5:28-5:30 he aims for Luke's neck and upper torso part of his body in all of his strikes

11) 5:33 he tries to kill Luke once again

12) 5:35 he chops of Luke's hand

13) 5:42-5:45 Vader explicitly states don't make me destroy you which shows that he would have if he had to

Even in that fight Sidious could have beaten him. He ad plenty of opportunities to kill him with both the blade and the force. He could have used force lightning when maces back was turned. Or used force choke or force push. Or when he had mace at saber point why didn't he just lunge through his heart and be don't with it? Or when he and Mace had their momentary pause he could have used the force to spin him against the windu and then shock him with lightning, or use his speed to do a quick crosscut to windus torso. So really Sidious could have ended the duel whenever he wanted. The only reason the duel even happen was because Samuel L Jackson wanted a spectacular death.

😂

He says, join me right after the destroying part.

😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
He also says, Your destiny lies with me. So at the end of your clip you acknowledge all your precious notes are useless because Vader didn't want to destroy him at those points. You ruined your own case by his words. You're a bumbling fool.

😂

He says, join me right after the destroying part.

😂

That doesn't disprove the fact that he took multiple shots to kill Luke. No matter what he said, his actions speak louder than his words.

So really you can't disprove his own actions thus you concede. 😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
I did.not say always. You basically avoided the common theme of the Jedi who are there to keep the peace first and foremost. They can and have killed but acting like they hold back is silly unless out for the kill. Keno I just saw his master slain and he did not even kill him. Yoda also failed against Palptine so it seems when they are out for the kill they aren't very effective. I ignore nothing but your ridiculous claims are just that.

What? Do you actually know anything about SW. Jedi are taught restraint, unless that's absolutely not an option.

I know you desperately want the Jedi to hold back against Khan. But if they do, then they're not taking him that seriously. Which is quite easy to imagine actually.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The point is Anakin was not out for the kill and he defeated him easily. Your theory that Jedi are less effective is absurd. Ok and ? I never said the Jedi don't kill but he soundly defeated him without having to kill him. Dooku soundly defeated Obi won't out having to kill him. Windu soundly defeated Palpatine without having to kill him. Obi soundly defeated Anakin without having to kill him. 💃

The difference is, Windu wasn't holding back against Palpatine. He wouldn't have cried if he did kill him.

Nor was Anakin holding back on Dooku.

Against characters like Bane though? Yeah the Jedi are usually restraining themselves. Which is why Kenobi stomped Cad Bane hard the next time they fought.

Also there's a big difference between a fencing match and a Saber vs Gun. In a fencing match the easiest targets are wrists and arms. It's also easier to disarm your opponents weapon compared to stabbing them through the chest LOL. And they're in reach to kick each other.

With a Saber vs Gun, the EASIEST things would be to deflect the shot back to their face, or body. As Vader recently showed in Rebels.

But don't let things like context, and lack of comprehension of the specifics get in the way of your trolling 😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nah, the Jedi kill and most of their strikes kill if someone doesn't defend themselves so this notion that they hold back is ridiculous.

The Jedi don't usually just cut the head off people like Bane. They attempt to disarm them and capture them instead.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bane needed to keep distance between them. So why wouldn't he keep running when he has guns to their swords ? Is he supposed to fight dumb because you're upset and a fanboy. Khan is going to kill. His blasts are far more successive and far more powerful than Bane's weak weaponry.

Exactly. But Khan hasn't shown he can run and leap around with that big gun of his. And even if he could it's only a matter of seconds before the Jedi catch up with him. A minute at the very most. Because he can't fly away.

S

Originally posted by quanchi112
hows how a bounty hunter can evade two Jedi for over a minute on foot. That's relevant you poor deluded thing.

Bane can. Khan can't. He hasn't shown he can leap around carrying that big gun of his. In fact he purposefully dropped his gun before making his leap, suggesting he can't.

I didn't see Bane evading Kenobi for long in their last fight. He tried to fly away and Kenobi just leaped up and caught him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So Bane takes advantage of the situation over the Jedi who just usually rely on their force abilities without tact. Thanks for conceding that. Khan guns down the old man. He doesn't need to shoot the ground.

Khan couldn't touch any of these guys. Just look how far and high they're leaping. Look at the reflexes, agility and coordination of all of them including Bane.

Khan's out of his league.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he needs time to recover while his other peer continues pursuit giving him the time he needs. There were two of them with laser swords so damn right he had to keep running. It worked. 😂

Yep he kept running. Khan will try and run, but without flight capabilities, he's gonna get caught.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Khan doesn't need to fire his big gun while moving. He was quite effective against over twenty trained Klingons. We see when he needs to go mobile he does.

He was effective from a Vantage point.

Khan wasn't capable of running around and leaping with his big gun. That's why he dropped it before he leaped.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kenobi isn't in this thread but leap all he wants. He has not shown the saber can deflect the Boolean gun. He leaps he dies. It doesn't matter but try to stay on topic, darth troll.

With his Pre-Cog and Leaps, Khan won't hit him. Holding that Boolean gun, Khan is a sitting duck.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So it isn't cheap for two Jedi but a shitty droid is breaking the rules. You're such a hypocrite I can't take you seriously. Khan doesn't need one. He isn't weak like Bane who still beat Obi by the way.

LMAO So is it cheap when 2 Police officers arrest 1 man together? You're being desperate.

All 3 combatants are well beyond Khan as proven in the video.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They were in pursuit so it shows one bounty hunter can effectively create distance while taking on two highly skilled Jedi and outright defeat Obi. Thanks for destroying your ridiculous super combat speed argument. Bane is tactical and smart while the Jedi are overconfident while leaping first.

They clearly showed combat speed the way they leaped at him mid combat. And dodged/blocked all his Blaster Fire. Keep crying.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Khan has superhuman attributes as well. The guy jumped fifty meters after crash landing which killed the rest of the men onboard. I never said Bane wasn't. It depends on which humans as all aren't equal, fanboy.

He dropped down. Show me him leaping upwards, as in against gravity.. dummy!

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can't prove he does and my point was that he wasn't as extensively trained as Obi has been. It's all about what you can prove, darth troll.

I can't prove he's trained to shoot either. But it's kind of obvious. He lasted 3 seconds. Keep crying.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you pretend he was worried about losing another jedis light saber to the point he dropped his guard.

I don't pretend. We saw him get distracted by it. Keep crying.

Originally posted by quanchi112
A major trait of the Jedi is to not hold onto attachment so this ridiculous theory of yours is baseless. Jedis lose their sabers all the time and they don't break concentration and become sentimental over it. You have no grasp of what it is to be a Jedi.

LMAO

Oh yeah. The guy who doesn't even get Jedi Restraint is trying to explain what a Jedi is to me. Nice!

"This weapon is your life" - Obi-Wan to Anakin- Attack of the Clones.

Keep crying Troll!

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. I know and proved he could. Thanks for admitting.
2. Once the battle starts there are no cheapshots. He was against two Jedi.
3. Due to being intelligent but ironically he beat Obi up close and personal making it even more humiliating for you.
4. When did I say he was ?
5. Blatantly untrue. Khan's weaponry and battle temperament was well behind this guy schooling two idiotic Jedi. He took down an entire squad of Klingons all converging on him at once. The Klingons also had ships. Khan came out on top. Your point was a droid was an unfair advantage against two Jedi vs. one bounty hunter.

This is my victory dance.

💃

1. Yep Bane ran. Just like Khan will be. Difference is Khan will be unable to keep his distance, and then he'll be sliced in two.
2. IN a 1 v 1 there will be no droid to to creep up from behind, and Obi won't be distracted by losing someone's else's Saber LMAO
3. He was lucky Obi was distracted. Khan won't be so lucky. Keep crying.
4. You're whole argumenT is based around Bane being a normal human foe LMAO. Stop trying to tread back. You know your arguments don't add up.
5. Khan cheap shotted the Klingons. The ones on the ship were easiest because the ship was an easy target for his Big Gun. He won't be able to hit the Jedi. The video clearly depicts the Jedi being physically beyond Khan. Even Cad Bane was clearly more skilled and faster than Khan.

So I've ripped apart your main lowballing of the Jedi you keep clinging to.

The video is there for everyone to see, how badly outmatched Khan is physically by these guys. Just look at those leaps, and those reflexes, and the coordination!

Miles ahead of Khan.

And neither Sidious or Yoda have ever been hit by a Non-Elite Jedi/Sith LMAO.

Fact remains Khan's best feat is Cheap Shotting a bunch of featless Klingons from a vantage point.

Kenobi's best feats are simply beyond Khan.

And Sidious or Yoda will simply freeze Khan, a Fact you've failed miserably to refute.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
What? Do you actually know anything about SW. Jedi are taught restraint, unless that's absolutely not an option.

I know you desperately want the Jedi to hold back against Khan. But if they do, then they're not taking him that seriously. Which is quite easy to imagine actually.

The difference is, Windu wasn't holding back against Palpatine. He wouldn't have cried if he did kill him.

Nor was Anakin holding back on Dooku.

Against characters like Bane though? Yeah the Jedi are usually restraining themselves. Which is why Kenobi stomped Cad Bane hard the next time they fought.

Also there's a big difference between a fencing match and a Saber vs Gun. In a fencing match the easiest targets are wrists and arms. It's also easier to disarm your opponents weapon compared to stabbing them through the chest LOL. And they're in reach to kick each other.

With a Saber vs Gun, the EASIEST things would be to deflect the shot back to their face, or body. As Vader recently showed in Rebels.

But don't let things like context, and lack of comprehension of the specifics get in the way of your trolling 😂

The Jedi don't usually just cut the head off people like Bane. They attempt to disarm them and capture them instead.

Yep he kept running. Khan will try and run, but without flight capabilities, he's gonna get caught.

He was effective from a Vantage point.

Khan wasn't capable of running around and leaping with his big gun. That's why he dropped it before he leaped.

With his Pre-Cog and Leaps, Khan won't hit him. Holding that Boolean gun, Khan is a sitting duck.

LMAO So is it cheap when 2 Police officers arrest 1 man together? You're being desperate.

All 3 combatants are well beyond Khan as proven in the video.

They clearly showed combat speed the way they leaped at him mid combat. And dodged/blocked all his Blaster Fire. Keep crying.

He dropped down. Show me him leaping upwards, as in against gravity.. dummy!

1. Yep Bane ran. Just like Khan will be. Difference is Khan will be unable to keep his distance, and then he'll be sliced in two.
2. IN a 1 v 1 there will be no droid to to creep up from behind, and Obi won't be distracted by losing someone's else's Saber LMAO
3. He was lucky Obi was distracted. Khan won't be so lucky. Keep crying.
4. You're whole argumenT is based around Bane being a normal human foe LMAO. Stop trying to tread back. You know your arguments don't add up.
5. Khan cheap shotted the Klingons. The ones on the ship were easiest because the ship was an easy target for his Big Gun. He won't be able to hit the Jedi. The video clearly depicts the Jedi being physically beyond Khan. Even Cad Bane was clearly more skilled and faster than Khan.

Ok so your point is he was not holding back and still disarmed Palaptine without having to kill him thus proving my point. When did I say he would have cried after ? What happens after the battle is over is irrelevant anyways, rookie.

Anakin wasn't out to kill. He didn't want to kill him after he had him at his mercy. He was urged and manipulated into doing so.

Nah, a fight can go either way. Bane and Kenobi are peers. I never said either was beyond the other. Both are quick enough and skilled enough with their own abilities to test and beat each other. You saying a Jedi holds back extensively when it isn't portrayed any differently than when a Jedi goes after pretty much anyone is just more desperation.

Yes, there is a big difference and in close quarters that's where Jedi are supposed to shine. We see Bane whose specialized skills center around using guns come out on top in close proximity to Kenobi despite him having a saber. You wanted to pretend he was attached and felt nad for being disarmed of Vos' saber. You're sad.

It depends on who wields the guns and what kind of firepower the guns bring. Did Windu easily deflect Jango's blasts back into his body or face ? Nah. It's because he's highly skilled. When Jango was disarmed after he disarmed Obi he's still formidable enough to give as good as he gets against a Jedi up close and personal.

You ignore context, evidence and specifics all the time. Look at the highly skilled combatants not the featless rabble when selling your biased misinterpretations.

Just like Windu disarmed Palapatine. Just like Anakin disarmed Dooku. Just like Luke disarmed Vader. You don't have to cut someone's head off to kill them. Saber strikes do the job just fine.

Khan doesn't need to run but if he does need to go mobile he will toss it aside as shown in the video. What aren't you getting ? Khan won't need all that time to put down one Jedi or Sith. How many Klingons did he put down in a minute ?

Why can't Khan ? Frankly, he doesn't have to but based off Khan's physical abilities let me know why he can't. He still has a phaser rifle so he won't be unarmed. We see him leap and fire just fine with his phaser rifle.

Bane isn't Khan and I already proved Bane can defeat a highly skilled Jedi with the help of another Jedi thus destroying your super combat speed due to the force. Bane doesn't tap into the force, sparky.

Here comes the oldest biased trick in the book. Say everyone from a selected universe is greater dismissinG timing, feats me and common sense. It's to be expected from a weak debater such as yourself. Khan jumped 50 meters which is around 98 feet iirc. Do you think Bane jumped that far ? If you look at Khan's reflexes, coordination, and strength you'd realize Bane is simply outmatched. You're biased and will continue to look through every single feat through biased tinted glasses.

Bane lasted an entire minute against a two Jedi. There's one guy here. It is Palpatine. Quit ignoring the variables and acting like bane was running from one Jedi. Khan doesn't need to run anyways.

Yes, because he's intelligent and will use whatever advantage he has. Do you expect him to act like a dumb Jedi ? I never said he leapt with his Boolean gun. Pay attention to what I do say from now on.

With Kenobi's precognition that didn't stop Jango from disarming him or preventing him from getting his saber back. Hell, did he even apprehend Jango who doesn't have precognition or force abilities ? Nah. That's called evidence destroying your biased hyperbolic based claims.

When they are two peers against one bounty hunter that is an unfair advbatagea but Bane still came out on top. You act like him using any help from a shitty droid is unfair because you're biased.

Khan showed by my evidence he can decimate over twenty well organized Klingons and two ships with relative ease. You can't even show me two Jedi apprehending one bounty hunter. 🤣

I never said they couldn't deflect blaster fire but bane showed he was quicker thus destroying your super combat speed argument. I understand dhow Star Wars works and am much smarter than a fanboy such as yourself.

98 feet is 98 feet. That's super friggin human. We also see him leap while aiming and killing a Klingon a superhuman distance in battle. Khan, **** yeah!!!

Guns are his weapons of choice and as a skilled bounty hunter it's rather obvious. He beat him right after he was disarmed. Way to **** up, Obi.

Jedi do not hold onto attachment. If he gets distracted that easily against losing a lightsaber he's flat out awful by your own opinion, mate.

That weapon wasn't Obi's life and they get disarmed all the time without losing their shit. Lucas made a running gag throughout the films disarming Jedi so please quit making up excuses. Attachment is wrong and to a saber a nonliving thing. You're lost.

1. No. Bane ran and effectively fled from two Jedi for over a minute. Khan doesn't need to move. Prove the Jedi can deflect the Boolean gun ?
2. So Obi being disarmed distracts him. He was disarmed by Jango as well. You're a fool. Baseless claims which ignore the Jedi way. Khan isn't Bane and he doesn't need to run while armed. And even if he did he'd cast aside the Boolean gun and go mobile.
3. There is. I luck there are only facts. Bane won and Obi lost. Deal with it, fanboy. You're running from the facts as trolls always do.
4. No, it isn't. My argument is any super skilled opponent can and has defeated Jedi. Khan isn't a normal human either. My arguments are backed by continuity.
5. Khan struck first because that's what he does. He didn't gun them all down and also took out multiple Klingons on foot with his Boolean gun. Saying he won't be able to hit the Jedi when pretty much their entire order was mowed down by order 66 is laughable and baseless. No, Bane was not. That's speculation. He was faster than the Jedi and able to best Obi in close quarters. That's a fact while your assertion is mere conjecture.

I just skull ****ed your fanboyism and all your biased exaggerations and unproven theories.

Khan doesn't need to run away while armed like Tano and Bane had to resort to. Khan wins against the older Sith Lord here. Khan guns him down as he is clearly superior.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
That doesn't disprove the fact that he took multiple shots to kill Luke. No matter what he said, his actions speak louder than his words.

So really you can't disprove his own actions thus you concede. 😂

His words from your post confirmed my claims.

😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
He knew what it would take to kill him and he didn't do so. He also asked for his assistance thus proving my claim he didn't want to try to kill him. Your own post confirms this.

His words from your post confirmed my claims.

😂

He aimed to kill several times. What about that don't you understand. That's like saying I aimed a gun at you and aimed for your head and heart and pulled the trigger but you,dodged it and then I took more shots at you but missed, and you say you weren't trying to kill me. I flat out aimed for vital organs. So Vaders actions speak louder than his words. He attempted to kill Luke and he even says at the end don't make me destroy you showing that throughout the whole battle he was forced to aim to kill as Luke was not cooperating to what he needed to do.

His actions speak louder than his words thus I win this argument. 😂

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
He aimed to kill several times. What about that don't you understand. That's like saying I aimed a gun at you and aimed for your head and heart and pulled the trigger but you,dodged it and then I took more shots at you but missed, and you say you weren't trying to kill me. I flat out aimed for vital organs. So Vaders actions speak louder than his words. He attempted to kill Luke and he even says at the end don't make me destroy you showing that throughout the whole battle he was forced to aim to kill as Luke was not cooperating to what he needed to do.

His actions speak louder than his words thus I win this argument. 😂

Quit ignoring Vader's clear words because you're a fanboy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Vader's own words prove you wrong. He wanted him to turn not to kill him you fool.

Quit ignoring Vader's clear words because you're a fanboy.

Actions speak louder than words. He aimed to kill him, he several times attempted to kill him as seen through the duel. You are an idiot. If someone is trying to kill you but says they don't want to kill you that doesn't take any from the fact that they tried to kill you several times.

Quit ignoring Vaders Clear actions. You are an idiot who doesn't think at all of process what he sees. Fanboy for who? What does this have to do with being a fanboy?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Actions speak louder than words. He aimed to kill him, he several times attempted to kill him as seen through the duel. You are an idiot. If someone is trying to kill you but says they don't want to kill you that doesn't take any from the fact that they tried to kill you several times.

Quit ignoring Vaders Clear actions. You are an idiot who doesn't think at all of process what he sees. Fanboy for who? What does this have to do with being a fanboy?

Originally posted by quanchi112
His actions matched his words. He didn't kill him and he even made his actions clear words. This is why you're a fanfic debater.

His actions out due his word. He didn't kill him because Luke kept blocking and dodging. He attempted to take his head, take off his legs, attack him multiple times. With all of that he tried to kill Luke. So yes he did try and kill Luke. This is why you're a poor debater because you can't process what you see.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
His actions out due his word. He didn't kill him because Luke kept blocking and dodging. He attempted to take his head, take off his legs, attack him multiple times. With all of that he tried to kill Luke. So yes he did try and kill Luke. This is why you're a poor debater because you can't process what you see.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Hus actions never killed him. His words matched his actions. You're a fantasy debater.

He sure was trying to kill Luke. His actions out due his words. You are a poor debater.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
He sure was trying to kill Luke. His actions out due his words. You are a poor debater.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He did not kill him and his words matched that. Do you have some additional footage where Luke dies matching your claims ?

That doesn't take away from the fact that he was trying to kill him. It doesn't matter if he died or not this debate is about whether vader attempted to kill Luke which by the footage is correct. He attempted to kill Luke on several occasions.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
That doesn't take away from the fact that he was trying to kill him. It doesn't matter if he died or not this debate is about whether vader attempted to kill Luke which by the footage is correct. He attempted to kill Luke on several occasions.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He said he didn't want to and since he didn't his words match his actions. Luke lived, fanboy.

Actions>words he attempted to kill Luke as seen in the video. Undeniable. He also said don't make me destroy you which shows he was willing to as seen in the video how Luke was being uncooperative and Vader was trying to kill him. Idiotic Fanboy.

Palps wins even easier than the poll suggests

Originally posted by quanchi112

Nah, a fight can go either way. Bane and Kenobi are peers. I never said either was beyond the other. Both are quick enough and skilled enough with their own abilities to test and beat each other. You saying a Jedi holds back extensively when it isn't portrayed any differently than when a Jedi goes after pretty much anyone is just more desperation.

LMAO

Kenobi's being a peer to Bane is like Khan being a peer to Spock.

You're completely delusional.

Kenobi kicked Bane's ass the last time they fought. Lucky for you I can't find the youtube video to put it in your face.

So one time, Bane cheap shots Kenobi and suddenly they're peers 😂

Keep trolling

Ahsoka is faster than Khan. Kenobi would stomp him. Yoda is a non-fight, as he'll just freeze Khan.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
LMAO

Kenobi's being a peer to Bane is like Khan being a peer to Spock.

You're completely delusional.

Kenobi kicked Bane's ass the last time they fought. Lucky for you I can't find the youtube video to put it in your face.

So one time, Bane cheap shots Kenobi and suddenly they're peers 😂

Keep trolling

Ahsoka is faster than Khan. Kenobi would stomp him. Yoda is a non-fight, as he'll just freeze Khan.

So what ? Bane beat Obi. He did so despite being outmanned two to one.

In a fight it isn't a cheapshot. Bane was too quick for him.

She isn't faster than his weaponry. In a hand to hand fight minus weapons Khan crushes her skull. Khan beats any Jedi or Sith to date from continuity.