Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol Dooku's feats are superior.
Eh, not really.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Ha Ha. Based on what? Inb4 you use that ridiculous Jedi Knight feat who has the best TK feat of the entire TOR era.
Well why should I not? Malgus states that he could end the Jedi in 'any of several ways', which obviously includes TK. Considering he hasn't displayed much variance in his abilities, really just TK, lightning and scream.
Regardless, Malgus' lightning is superior to Dooku's since it possesses the power to burn through a torso even after overpowering a lightsaber defense and has killed multiple Jedi in a single blast.
His TK is good enough to blast away a mountain of rubble and toss around Aryn Leneer. And his Force Scream has destroyed a squad of starfighters.
Even if Dooku is the greater of the two, and if so it would be because of his more refined, fleshed out dueling skill, Malgus is definitely on his level with regards to overall power and Force abilities.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Obviously Leneer is better than Qui-Gon. That's why I said she's TPM Maul level. Zallow isn't above Qui-Gon, he's on the same level as him. Blitzing mooks isn't above Qui-Gon neither is owning faildraas.
Nah, I'm not seeing Qui-Gon Force pwning a powerful Sith Lord like Adraas, nor being fast enough to blitz the strongest Sith Warriors in the era.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Right because Kenobi was totally trying to kill Maul and Savage. 🙄
With regards to your reply, of fookin course he was trying to kill them. Obi-Wan was about to coup de grace Savage before Maul stopped him. Kenobi wasn't sticking to Jedi restraint in that situation. Hell just look at his face, he's practically snarling.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Please Kenobi landed plenty of kicks on blows before Maul before Savage even joined the fray.
No he didn't.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
ROTS Kenobi is superior to Maul, he's a master of Soresu, an expert at Niman and Ataru, and in the TK area he matches ROTS Anakin who I'm sorry has superior feats to Maul, there's no proof that his TK was reduced to a point that puts him below TCWs. ****ing hell man. Kenobi pushed Maul to his limits in TPM. He mastered Soresu because of Ataru's failures against Maul, became the master of Soresu in a Jedi Order where Soresu is the predominant form. If you think 13 years of mastering a saber technique isn't enough to put you above a Sith Lord who spent the same years crying in a cave you're delusional.
His TK clearly was reduced that much since even in the CW Dooku couldn't ragdoll Anakin like he did Kenobi. He could push him back, but even Barriss managed that, it's not proof he could ragdoll and throw him like he did to Obi-Wan in the movie. I think it's pretty obvious that you're the delusional one since you keep saying Kenobi is RotS Anakin's force equal even when that's blatantly untrue. I can list all of Maul's skills and accolades too and he is no less martially skilled than Obi-Wan is.
And lol, Obi-Wan didn't push him to his limits in TPM and if he did it was only due to his anger giving him a temp boost.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku outclasses Maul. He would not give Dooku a good fight, the Count would win 9/10.
The fact that Maul would even win one suggests they're closer than you say, since that suggests he does have a chance to win and isn't completely outclassed. Which is true.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Eh, not really.
Well why should I not? Malgus states that he could end the Jedi in 'any of several ways', which obviously includes TK. Considering he hasn't displayed much variance in his abilities, really just TK, lightning and scream.
Which is a hubris filled statement, Dooku also thought he grossly outclassed Skywalker and we see how that went.
Regardless, Malgus' lightning is superior to Dooku's since it possesses the power to burn through a torso even after overpowering a lightsaber defense and has killed multiple Jedi in a single blast.
And Dooku's has massacred over a half dozen Kiffar and a quarter dozen nightbrothers in a single short blast.
His TK is good enough to blast away a mountain of rubble and toss around Aryn Leneer. And his Force Scream has destroyed a squad of starfighters.
And Dooku's is better than Anakin who has brought down massive domes, one of the Jedi Temple's gargantuan statues, and lets not forget his little weapons platform attack.
Even if Dooku is the greater of the two, and if so it would be because of his more refined, fleshed out dueling skill, Malgus is definitely on his level with regards to overall power and Force abilities.
When he gets his final powerup where he stomps Leneer he's slightly below Dooku.
Nah, I'm not seeing Qui-Gon Force pwning a powerful Sith Lord like Adraas, nor being fast enough to blitz the strongest Sith Warriors in the era.
Point withdrawn on him being able to force pwn Adraas. Yeah he's definitely fast enough imo. I mean TCWs Maul is fast enough to lol blitz Mr. 20 blows per second Grievous.
With regards to your reply, of fookin course he was trying to kill them. Obi-Wan was about to coup de grace Savage before Maul stopped him. Kenobi wasn't sticking to Jedi restraint in that situation. Hell just look at his face, he's practically snarling.
Do you have proof other than something as ridiculous as 'snarling'? Because Brienne of Tarth snarled towards Jamie Lannister but she was rather clearly trying to disarm him the whole way. You are wrong in this situation. The director rather clearly states that Kenobi lost the last confrontation because he wasn't in the right state of mind i.e. Avenging Qui-Gon/ being enraged. He was focused, a focused Jedi is not about murdering anyone.
In terms of the Jedi Order unless they make it clear 'I am going to end this once and for all' or, 'Destroy the Sith we must'. It should never be assumed they are going for the kill.
No he didn't.
Rewatch the fight. It was one kick but still.
YouTube video
1:56
His TK clearly was reduced that much since even in the CW Dooku couldn't ragdoll Anakin like he did Kenobi. He could push him back, but even Barriss managed that, it's not proof he could ragdoll and throw him like he did to Obi-Wan in the movie. I think it's pretty obvious that you're the delusional one since you keep saying Kenobi is RotS Anakin's force equal even when that's blatantly untrue. I can list all of Maul's skills and accolades too and he is no less martially skilled than Obi-Wan is.
I've never said he's equal to ROTS Anakin in the force. I said he's equal to Mustafar Anakin who is in terms of raw force power superior to his Clone Wars counterpart.
And lol, Obi-Wan didn't push him to his limits in TPM and if he did it was only due to his anger giving him a temp boost.
Which...is still pushing him to his limits. And yes I consider bifercating someone's weapon and kicking them to the floor like a bad dog pushing them to their limits.
The fact that Maul would even win one suggests they're closer than you say, since that suggests he does have a chance to win and isn't completely outclassed. Which is true.
That one win is if its a case like in ROTS where Dooku doesn't use his force powers right away.
Originally posted by WildBantha88
Sabers:Casually disposes of jedi knights in the temple. Beat Kao, Ven Zallow, and Knight Satele.
None of which are things Dooku couldn't do better.
Lightning: Insta kills two padawans before that same lightning lifts a knight off her feat and kills her within seconds.
Dooku instantly kills four nightbrothers, all of whom are easily above Padawans. He also massacres at least 6 Kiffar warriors.
TK: Cassually chokes out jedi in the temple. Blast of power that levels a crowd and rocks a ship.
So? Dooku didn't choke out some mook, he's choked out some of the most powerful Jedi of the age. And demolishes Ventress with a ****ing finger.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
-snip-
Yeah there's nothing in there even worth responding to.
That powerful Jedi have demonstrated greater strength then even Dooku, but even such level of strength was not enough to stop Malgus.
Dooku who matched effing Yoda's raw power? I really don't think so.
Leener is TPM Maul level, seriously? What has Maul done at this point to be on par with Leener supposedly?
Defeated two seasoned swordsmen which is...wait for it exactly what Malgus had done by that point.
-snip-
Yes we've established that Zallow is good. So is Qui-Gon. And I don't care how good these Sith Warriors are they are mooks in comparison to Qui-Gon level duelists.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Which is a hubris filled statement, Dooku also thought he grossly outclassed Skywalker and we see how that went.
Except that Malgus really did pwn him in a single attack. 😬
Originally posted by Lord Stark
And Dooku's has massacred over a half dozen Kiffar and a quarter dozen nightbrothers in a single short blast.
Yes, as I said his lightning isn't as powerful as Malgus'. Killing people with no visible burns doesn't equal having the intensity to burn through torso's. Malgus' is demonstrably much more potent.
Also those guys were never confirmed dead.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
And Dooku's is better than Anakin who has brought down massive domes, one of the Jedi Temple's gargantuan statues, and lets not forget his little weapons platform attack.
You keep bringing up Anakin bringing down that dome, but that feat made Dooku shit his pants. After Anakin had performed that feat (and goes on to do the statue feat) Dooku didn't display superiority over Anakin with TK, so your point isn't accurate. Is it not possible that Anakin had matched or surpassed Dooku in TK at that point?
I am going to forget that weapons platform thing though. In the end, Dooku has done nothing that Malgus couldn't also do.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
When he gets his final powerup where he stomps Leneer he's slightly below Dooku.
That made me just about piss my pants. As if Dooku could beat Leneer with lightning, lmao. 😆
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Point withdrawn on him being able to force pwn Adraas. Yeah he's definitely fast enough imo. I mean TCWs Maul is fast enough to lol blitz Mr. 20 blows per second Grievous.
He didn't blitz him.
You can see GG is stunned by Maul's Force Wave and then caught off-guard. In their previous fight Maul didn't blitz him. And according to you Kenobi > Maul, yet he couldn't blitz Grievous. Nice try though.
Qui-Gon has no speed feats to match up with Zallows.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Do you have proof other than something as ridiculous as 'snarling'? Because Brienne of Tarth snarled towards Jamie Lannister but she was rather clearly trying to disarm him the whole way. You are wrong in this situation. The director rather clearly states that Kenobi lost the last confrontation because he wasn't in the right state of mind i.e. Avenging Qui-Gon/ being enraged. He was focused, a focused Jedi is not about murdering anyone.In terms of the Jedi Order unless they make it clear 'I am going to end this once and for all' or, 'Destroy the Sith we must'. It should never be assumed they are going for the kill.
Oh man, way to spoil that Brienne and Jaime fight bro.
I already proved it, Kenobi disarmed Savage and tries to kill him even when he had no weapon. He was clearly not f*cking around in that fight.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Rewatch the fight. It was one kick but still.
YouTube video
1:56
I'm not sure how you saw that and missed Kenobi almost cutting Savage's head in half but as I said he didn't kick him multiple times. And kicks don't mean superiority.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
I've never said he's equal to ROTS Anakin in the force. I said he's equal to Mustafar Anakin who is in terms of raw force power superior to his Clone Wars counterpart.
"in the TK area he matches ROTS Anakin"
😐
Anyway, you didn't refute my logic. Dooku couldn't lift and toss CW Anakin like he did RotS Kenobi. So isn't it accurate to say that Anakin was weakened further than that?
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Which...is still pushing him to his limits. And yes I consider bifercating someone's weapon and kicking them to the floor like a bad dog pushing them to their limits.
Not really. Obi-Wan only did that well because he got mad, which you know gives people a temporary boost. Maul kicked Obi-Wan over a 20 meter ledge while engaging with Qui-Gon at the same time before then. He treated Obi-Wan as a minor annoyance in the first portion of the fight.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
That one win is if its a case like in ROTS where Dooku doesn't use his force powers right away.
And Maul beats him in sabers?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Except that Malgus really did pwn him in a single attack. 😬
Yes, as I said his lightning isn't as powerful as Malgus'. Killing people with no visible burns doesn't equal having the intensity to burn through torso's. Malgus' is demonstrably much more potent.
Then I guess Sidious' lightning is the worst ever.
Also those guys were never confirmed dead.
"I will kill you, then kill Maul, then kill Talzin, then your people will be but a memory" heavily implies the other nightbrothers are dead considering them Maul, and Talzin are all that's left with Grievous' massacre on Dathomir. Also considering Dooku's decapitation of the other one its a safe bet he's going for the kill here.
You keep bringing up Anakin bringing down that dome, but that feat made Dooku shit his pants. After Anakin had performed that feat (and goes on to do the statue feat) Dooku didn't display superiority over Anakin with TK, so your point isn't accurate. Is it not possible that Anakin had matched or surpassed Dooku in TK at that point?
Nope. And Dooku shit his pants because he didn't think Anakin was at that level. It was likely rivaling his own at that point.
I am going to forget that weapons platform thing though. In the end, Dooku has done nothing that Malgus couldn't also do.
Then we have nothing left to discuss. You can't dismiss a canon source because you don't like it.
That made me just about piss my pants. As if Dooku could beat Leneer with lightning, lmao. 😆
Laugh it up. Its true.
He didn't blitz him.You can see GG is stunned by Maul's Force Wave and then caught off-guard. In their previous fight Maul didn't blitz him. And according to you Kenobi > Maul, yet he couldn't blitz Grievous. Nice try though.
Kenobi>Maul doesn't mean Kenobi's better at him then everything genius. Just that in a fight Kenobi'd beat him, which is true. And according to you Kenobi=/<Maul so...yeah Maul should be able to react to/ counter 20 strikes per second, which even if he were half that speed in TPM would still be far faster than Zallow.
Qui-Gon has no speed feats to match up with Zallows.
Keeping up with Maul.
Oh man, way to spoil that Brienne and Jaime fight bro.
Spoiled in promotional images, trailers, ect.
Also not really a significant plot point...at all.
I already proved it, Kenobi disarmed Savage and tries to kill him even when he had no weapon. He was clearly not f*cking around in that fight.
No he doesn't he very clearly is charging at Maul when Maul pushes him away.
I'm not sure how you saw that and missed Kenobi almost cutting Savage's head in half but as I said he didn't kick him multiple times. And kicks don't mean superiority.
Prove he wasn't going to cut Savage's arm off.
"in the TK area he matches ROTS Anakin"
Context is pretty clear here Neph. I obviously meant Mustafar Anakin.
Anyway, you didn't refute my logic. Dooku couldn't lift and toss CW Anakin like he did RotS Kenobi. So isn't it accurate to say that Anakin was weakened further than that?
Dooku didn't try and TK Anakin though, and the times he did he was successful. 😬
Its like saying Dooku couldn't TK AOTCs Anakin when he clearly could, he just chose to go for sabers.
Not really. Obi-Wan only did that well because he got mad, which you know gives people a temporary boost. Maul kicked Obi-Wan over a 20 meter ledge while engaging with Qui-Gon at the same time before then. He treated Obi-Wan as a minor annoyance in the first portion of the fight.
Yes it is. Regardless of how he did it. He did it. I highly doubt rage enhanced Padawan Kenobi who only knows Ataru is superior to Master Kenobi who's a master of Soresu and at worst on par with Padawan Kenobi's Ataru.
And Maul beats him in sabers?
Nah depending on settings he may use the force to score some fluke victory. But honestly 9/10 is really generous. Rethinking it Dooku probably takes it 10/10.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Then we have nothing left to discuss. You can't dismiss a canon source because you don't like it.
Fo srs? You know why I don't take that feat as representative of Anakin and its not just cuz I don't like it. I happen to love the Tartovsky stuff, its just that I don't take them as serious representations of the character capabilities.
But if you are srs then I guess theres no point in me replying.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Fo srs? You know why I don't take that feat as representative of Anakin and its not just cuz I don't like it. I happen to love the Tartovsky stuff, its just that I don't take them as serious representations of the character capabilities.But if you are srs then I guess theres no point in me replying.
Why? Because it puts PT characters above your precious TOR characters? I accept your concession.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Even I said Dooku would likely win. But it would be a good fight.
Nah not really.
Originally posted by Nephthys
TOR high tiers are stronger.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
The PT high tiers are just as strong if not stronger.
There, I just saved us several hours of debate.