They aren't going to fight past two.
Oh?
I think Shado has possibly surpassed his master Sazen,
Perhaps, but they should be on a similar level either way.
Maladi's got sorcery which I don't think either of the others are good against,
I doubt Maladi could have topped Shado Vao, and I'd infer that a combat-oriented Council Member isn't more than negligibly lesser than he.
and Kas'im is better than any of them in sabers.
Agen Kolar.
Heck, 2's stronger than 3 I'd say, no weak links in 2.
Cin is pretty awfully underrated, nowadays.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I doubt Maladi could have topped Shado Vao, and I'd infer that a combat-oriented Council Member isn't more than negligibly lesser than he.
Fair argument, so point.
Agen Kolar.
There I disagree.
Cin is pretty awfully underrated, nowadays. [/B]
Shaak Ti stole one of his big hypes! And the movie version- and thus highest canon- of his Vader fight is quite unimpressive.
I like to think he was in a bit of a Qui-Gon situation- skilled, but perhaps past his prime.
What do you mean Shaak Ti stole his hype? You are aware that there is a quote that blatantly states that Drallig is more skilled than Shaak, right?
If you're referring to the LoE thing, I think that's a rumor. I bought a new copy of the book in the Dark Lord Trilogy mashup set, and Drallig's name is still there.
Also, people tend to forget that Drallig/co. were defending themselves against blaster fire whilst being cut down by Anakin, as once he was defeated the apprentices behind him were shot to shreds.
Actually Bane had graduated from the Sith Academy, been declared a Dark Lord, and been promoted to the Sith Council prior to his departure for Lehon.
But not true Dark lord of the Sith. That occurred after he destroyed them, not that it matters though.
Despite the fact that Karpyshyn built up that entire confrontation as a feat for Bane and displayed it as a battle of two master duelists.
He has no feats to call him a master duelist, and getting beaten by a trainee who had barely been trained for a few months it makes him look like shit. Again feats >> whatever Krapashyn had intended.
skill was not an unfair advantage as it was within his own ability. The nexus was not an unfair advantage because both were dark side aligned. His skill in Jar'kai allowed him to drive Bane into a desperate retreat, when he then lost to Bane's advantage "his enormous command of the force."
I never said his skill was an unfair advantage. I said that based on his skill he should've beaten him, the sole advantage he had was knowing Jar kai and it meant little because he still died like *****. If he devoted all of that time to saber combat, he should've done much better than getting killed by someone who trained much later in life. Krapashyn's writing makes no sense.
Bane achieves the exact same speed on Korriban and Lehon, so the nexus of Lehon evidently didn't amp up their speed, which makes me question it's ability to passively amp their other abilities.
Lolnope he never replicated that speed again in his life. He barely moved fast enough to block rain drops. The nexus helped him admit it
][quotePerhaps it's because Bane never had another opportunity to demonstrate that level of telekinetic ability again.[/quote]Not even in DOE did he do a similar feat, his TK isn't that strong off nexus, sorry.
On Ruusan, all there was for him to destroy was a campsite, and he still ****ed that up. That does not demonstrate itself as the max of Bane's abilities however.
The broader point being he had a nexus to boost his powers, unlike in the case of other Sith he has no other max showings.
[quote[In Nadd's tomb he hurls a large stone slab that is cursed to be unmovable by Sith Sorcery. This is also an impressive showing of telekinesis.[/quote]
Nadd's tomb is a darkside nexus=nexus feat
After that point Bane was covered in Orbalisks, so he couldn't exactly demonstrate stuff without the Orbalisks because they were attatched to him.In DOE after losing the orbalisks, he also never had a chance to demonstrate a feat on that telekinetic level, because in his confrontation with Cognus and the Doan guard, Cognus was suppressing his force power.
Lol what? The orbalisks amplified him too when he killed those assassins he made it appear as if he wielded 12 lightsabers, in DOE he could barely deflect rain. He was amped in all of his showings, and his limited amount of showings poorly reflect his skill/force power. You're theorizing if you say he "never had a chance", on the feats he has done off nexus he clearly isn't as strong.
Once again the Nexus argument is moot here as it didn't give Bane or Kas'im an unfair advantage over the other.
No lol. All of his showings off nexus simply don't match his showings on them. Its not a coincidence its simply Bane is nowhere near as skilled or as powerful as you'd like him to be. All of this "HE COULD'VE DONE X" is simple posturing, going by feats he's not really even on the same tier as Malgus, Bane, Kun, or Vader. He's slower, weaker, and by simply demonstration he can't match any of them on his best day.
Bane was no longer a trainee as I have proven numerous times, and I've also proven his ability advanced a great deal past the point when he was a trainee. I'm not sure what kinda crack you are smoking, but it must be some hardcore shit.
Whether or not Bane has demonstrated that feat again does not make Kas'im any less impressive, as the one time he did it, Kas'im blocked it.
Kas'sim was drawing on the nexus too, and sure it makes it less impressive. It means that Bane and Kas'sim aren't capable of replicating the capacity of that feat off nexus, and that Bane's supposedly "Great force power" comes from nexuses and much less his own power.
You still used the feat of switching between forms of lightsaber combat as a demonstration of Venamis's raw skill, so Sirak performing the exact same feat is still highly impressive, and even if it doesn't put Sirak on Venamis's level, it still shows him to be a very skilled duelist in his own right.
Not really lol considering Plagueis is a much faster and infinitely more skilled opponent than Bane. His ability to switch, contort his body, and attack from all angles against Plagueis's speed is more impressive than two weak trainees fighting. Venamis even seared Plagueis's neck, and forced him to use a battle mind like technique.
Sirak was by far the strongest apprentice at the academy in every respect before Bane passed him up. He's hardly a "weak" trainee, and by all meanings of the word, Venamis was still "Tenebrous's trainee"Lonope he was going to be the Dark lord had Plagueis died, there is a difference between an apprentice and a trainee at an academy. One is technically a Sith Lord, and the others are only nominally Sith lords according to stupid egalitarian ideals Kaan didn't want to use the Darth title. They're trainees
who hadn't even earned the title of Darth yet, so your suggesting that rank=power is a preposterous one, or that it is one that has any relevance here. And Plagueis doesn't exactly have any dueling feats by this point that are more impressive than ones you casually dismiss for other characters.
Kaan didn't want to use the Darth title because it denoted individuality. Hence why they're trainees under the laugable title of "Lord". Try again
I'm not disagreeing that Venamis is Sirak's superior, but Sirak achieving what you count as an impressive skill feat for Venamis still marks him as a very skilled duelist, no matter what twisted logic you try and pull out your ass. They may be different characters, but it's the same feat.
The situations are different Bane was a trainee titled by a guy who avoided using the Darth title, and Venamis was still technically a Sith lord even if it was in violation of Bane's rule. He was still trained and wouldv'e justly assumed his title if Plagueis died. Bane was atrainee, and gave the title to himself once he killed of Kaan's weak order. Not really similar, and Venamis fighting Plagueis is an INFINITELY better feat than Sirrak beating pussy Bane
Originally posted by NewGuy01
What do you mean Shaak Ti stole his hype? You are aware that there is a quote that blatantly states that Drallig is more skilled than Shaak, right?If you're referring to the LoE thing, I think that's a rumor. I bought a new copy of the book in the Dark Lord Trilogy mashup set, and Drallig's name is still there.
Also, people tend to forget that Drallig/co. were defending themselves against blaster fire whilst being cut down by Anakin, as once he was defeated the apprentices behind him were shot to shreds.
Ah, that was an incorrect rumor? Oh well.
Still, there is the matter he is really lacking in feats.
Originally posted by carthage
But not true Dark lord of the Sith. That occurred after he destroyed them, not that it matters though.
Originally posted by carthage
He has no feats to call him a master duelist, and getting beaten by a trainee who had barely been trained for a few months it makes him look like shit. Again feats >> whatever Krapashyn had intended.
Hell, when Bane actually was a trainee, prior to his graduation from the Sith Academy, he considers the notion that he could take Kas'im in a real fight a preposterous one. And Bane hasn't even seen the true scope of Kas'im's abilities with a saberstaff yet at this point.
So as duelists: Jar'kai Kas'im>Sith Council Bane>Saberstaff Kas'im>Holding Back Kas'im>Trainee Bane
Originally posted by carthage
I never said his skill was an unfair advantage. I said that based on his skill he should've beaten him, the sole advantage he had was knowing Jar kai and it meant little because he still died like *****. If he devoted all of that time to saber combat, he should've done much better than getting killed by someone who trained much later in life. Krapashyn's writing makes no sense.
Originally posted by carthage
Lolnope he never replicated that speed again in his life. He barely moved fast enough to block rain drops. The nexus helped him admit it
And if you are really going to play the Nexus card for Dxun, Bane on Dxun considered the rainstorm feat impossible using speed and TK so... his speed evidently increased quite a bit by DOE. Zannah also considered Bane to be "faster than she could've ever imagined," and she has fought a bloodlusted Orbalisk Bane before.
Originally posted by carthage
Not even in DOE did he do a similar feat, his TK isn't that strong off nexus, sorry.
Originally posted by carthage
The broader point being he had a nexus to boost his powers, unlike in the case of other Sith he has no other max showings.
Originally posted by carthage
Nadd's tomb is a darkside nexus=nexus feat
Originally posted by carthage
Lol what? The orbalisks amplified him too when he killed those assassins he made it appear as if he wielded 12 lightsabers, in DOE he could barely deflect rain. He was amped in all of his showings, and his limited amount of showings poorly reflect his skill/force power. You're theorizing if you say he "never had a chance", on the feats he has done off nexus he clearly isn't as strong.
Your claiming the fact that he has orbalisks reflects poorly on his power? Let's look at speed. Zannah finds DOE Bane faster than she ever could've imagined despite fighting bloodlusted ROT Bane. And not only did Bane receive a boost in force power from the Orbalisks, but he received a purely physical boost as well. This implies that DOE Bane's force strength was enough to augment his speed to be superior to the physically and force enhanced speed of his Orbalisk encrusted self.
Now let's look at his lightning shall we? Bane's force storm in ROT reduces three people to ash, while in DOE off of a nexus he is capable of reducing four people to ashes with a casual one handed blast.
DOE Bane's strength in the force from these two examples is highly comparable with that of his orbalisk encrusted self, at the very least.
You're claiming that the Orbalisks reflect poorly on his skill? In his fight with Lsu, he managed to outmaneuver her and throw her on her ass with an unpredictable maneuver, and Lsu was the BM invigorated top duelist of the Jedi Order. Lsu was also an Echani, and Echani specialized in reading their opponents so they could predict their next moves. The fact that Bane was able to outmaneuver Lsu was impressive, especially given the mass of the Orbalisks reducing his agility, and the bloodlust from the Orbalisks clouding his judgement. But that's not all. After losing the Orbalisks, Bane improves immensely on the aspect of his fighting style that allowed him to throw Lsu on her ass.
Originally posted by carthage
No lol. All of his showings off nexus simply don't match his showings on them. Its not a coincidence its simply Bane is nowhere near as skilled or as powerful as you'd like him to be. All of this "HE COULD'VE DONE X" is simple posturing, going by feats he's not really even on the same tier as Malgus, Bane, Kun, or Vader. He's slower, weaker, and by simply demonstration he can't match any of them on his best day.
DOE Bane is immensely fast, you are retarded.
DOE Bane is also physically strong enough to rip a durasteel door off of its hinges, a feat which none of the other people you listed (except possibly Vader) has a strength feat on that caliber.
I have just proven that DOE Bane's force strength is at the very least on the same level as that of his orbalisk encrusted self, and he has numerous accolades for his power that you are choosing to ignore, so yes Bane is immensely powerful.
Originally posted by carthage
Kas'sim was drawing on the nexus too, and sure it makes it less impressive. It means that Bane and Kas'sim aren't capable of replicating the capacity of that feat off nexus, and that Bane's supposedly "Great force power" comes from nexuses and much less his own power.
Their speed was not impacted by the nexus as I've proven countless times, so...
And the nexus does not change their level of skill and strength in the force in comparison to eachother.
Originally posted by carthage
Not really lol considering Plagueis is a much faster and infinitely more skilled opponent than Bane. His ability to switch, contort his body, and attack from all angles against Plagueis's speed is more impressive than two weak trainees fighting. Venamis even seared Plagueis's neck, and forced him to use a battle mind like technique.
You noted the raw ability of being able to switch rapidly between forms as impressive, and Sirak did that several times in a single sequence and demonstrated himself to be ambidextrous. Even if Sirak is not Plagueis/Venamis level, he is still a highly skilled duelist.
Originally posted by carthage
Lonope he was going to be the Dark lord had Plagueis died, there is a difference between an apprentice and a trainee at an academy. One is technically a Sith Lord, and the others are only nominally Sith lords according to stupid egalitarian ideals Kaan didn't want to use the Darth title. They're trainees
You have just proven you're immense bias again. When Bane is close to being the Dark Lord, you're like "lolnope Bane's an unimpressive trainee." But when the same rings true for Venamis, you're like "Oh he's impressive for almost being the Dark Lord."
Originally posted by carthage
The situations are different Bane was a trainee titled by a guy who avoided using the Darth title, and Venamis was still technically a Sith lord even if it was in violation of Bane's rule. He was still trained and wouldv'e justly assumed his title if Plagueis died. Bane was atrainee, and gave the title to himself once he killed of Kaan's weak order. Not really similar, and Venamis fighting Plagueis is an INFINITELY better feat than Sirrak beating pussy Bane
You have just proven you're immense bias again. When Bane is close to being the Dark Lord, you're like "lolnope Bane's an unimpressive trainee." But when the same rings true for Venamis, you're like "Oh he's impressive for almost being the Dark Lord."
Venamis- He lost to an inexperienced form of a dark lord who was not yet at his peak against whom he was specifically trained to have an advantage over.
Bane- He beat a highly experienced dark lord, veteran of countless combats, who had a good knowledge of his style.
Originally posted by red8
Plagueis was the Dark Lord of the Sith at that point. He had over a century of experience.Venamis giving him a challenge >>> Bane defeating Kas'im
Other than that argument, I agree with Emperordmb.
I merely made the argument that Sirak blending several forms into a sequence was impressive, and that Carthage claimed that it was impressive when Venamis did it.
Carthage then blew it way out of proportion and started putting words in my mouth.
I never said his skill was an unfair advantage. I said that based on his skill he should've beaten him, the sole advantage he had was knowing Jar kai and it meant little because he still died like *****. If he devoted all of that time to saber combat, he should've done much better than getting killed by someone who trained much later in life. Krapashyn's writing makes no sense.
Star Wars tends to favor talent over skill/experience. Otherwise Obi-Wan and Dooku should not have had a problem with Anakin. Sidious would have been too rusty to blitz the strike team or fight Yoda. Revan should have been too rusty and exhausted to be much of a challenge in the Foundry. And so on.
With that being said, Karpashyn wrote Bane's character to be unusually talented. He went from being a miner to a soldier to a Sith acolyte to the Dark Lord of the Sith way too quickly. But other than that, PoD was a good book.
If you'll notice, I never made that argument.
I stand corrected.