No, and I am not a Thor-hater. I'm Marvel all day every day so its funny how presumptuous people can be.
I feel like people are acting like I am making a claim that the Walrus can beat Thor, hell I didn't even state that the Superior Venom can beat Thor, I made the thread and asked the question.
Do I think the Superior Venom is a match for Thor? Well, lets look at the facts.
-We know that the symbiote's strengths are influenced greatly on the host. Some hosts make the symbiote stronger and some hosts make the symbiote weaker. It can very well be argued that the symbiote on the Superior Spider-Man is the strongest incarnation to date. And throughout the fight I mentioned, the Superior Venom was gaining strength and speed.
-It can be argued, aside from Superior Spider-Man, Eddie Brock resulted in the strongest Venom incarnation. His feats are so incredibly varied its hard to pin point how strong he is/how his defenses are. I believe his worst appearance was when Ben Urich literally turned his lighter on and it made Venom run away. A freaking lighter. In contrast to that, there's been scenes where Venom has been surrounded by scorching fire and still was able to do things like lift a building. Fire aside, he has ALWAYS been extremely durable. He's laughed off hits from the Juggernaut, the Thing (who he beat), Ghost Rider, Hulk. It can be assumed Thor would not be able to use his weakness against him anyway.
-At Venom's prime, both publishers and writers of Marvel and DC pit Venom against Superman in a crossover. Yes, its not canon but that doesn't negate the fact both creative teams put Venom on par with Superman. Who has better authority then the writers and publishers of both teams? Again, not to say Eddie Brock's Venom can take on Superman, but it shows how strong they thought Venom was at his prime (same time period he took on Juggernaut).
Obviously not Thor Thor, but Spider-Man has always been shown to be faster and more agile then Thor. This is greatly increased by the symbiote (and throughout the fight, he showed he was much faster and more versatile then Thor). Not to mention, unlike Eddie Brock's Venom, the Superior Venom has a spider-sense.
So we can definitively say Spider-Man (and with the symbiote, this is tenfold) is faster then Thor. It would be very hard for Thor to even land a blow against him, let alone pummel him with ease (as many people in this thread claim he would do).
Although the symbiote is essentially controlling him, he clearly has access to Doc Ock's genius brain. Time and time again, the Superior Spider-Man has shown to be much more tactful and resourceful then Thor.
Can the Superior Venom take on Thor? Maybe. He was shown to take on the Avengers without being inflicted any damage, and towards the end of the fight (no matter what anyone says in this thread), Thor was fighting at his full potential.
I see your point, which is to ignore what is essentially the ENTIRETY of Thor's respect thread, and use his one showing.
Based on the Thor as depicted in the scans you showed, yes, Venom can win.
Based on Thor's absolute best showings, when he's at his full potential?
Since, we are taking statements as gospel, do you think Venom can replicate a blow that could shatter diamonds? Even if he could, it only makes him blink:
And can move like the lightning he commands:
Of course, since you are taking your character statements as gospel, mine can also be taken as gospel, right?
Actually, you know what? Here's a respect thread:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t522796.html
I'd like to point out, however, that Ock when in Spidey's body, showed he was weaker, AND had a less effective Spidey sense than Peter.
Here's probably the best example. Thor says that he used the 'full force of Mjolnir'. It has zero effect:
But wait! A few panels later, he does the EXACT SAME THING. Guess what? KO.
IOW, what Thor says and what he actually does are two very different things. He may say he's not holding back, but as we have seen, there is a precedent.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here's probably the best example. Thor says that he used the 'full force of Mjolnir'. It has zero effect:But wait! A few panels later, he does the EXACT SAME THING. Guess what? KO.
IOW, what Thor says and what he actually does are two very different things. He may say he's not holding back, but as we have seen, there is a precedent.
Originally posted by OnslaughtKILLS
No, and I am not a Thor-hater. I'm Marvel all day every day so its funny how presumptuous people can be.I feel like people are acting like I am making a claim that the Walrus can beat Thor, hell I didn't even state that the Superior Venom can beat Thor, I made the thread and asked the question.
Do I think the Superior Venom is a match for Thor? Well, lets look at the facts.
-We know that the symbiote's strengths are influenced greatly on the host. Some hosts make the symbiote stronger and some hosts make the symbiote weaker. It can very well be argued that the symbiote on the Superior Spider-Man is the strongest incarnation to date. And throughout the fight I mentioned, the Superior Venom was gaining strength and speed.
-It can be argued, aside from Superior Spider-Man, Eddie Brock resulted in the strongest Venom incarnation. His feats are so incredibly varied its hard to pin point how strong he is/how his defenses are. I believe his worst appearance was when Ben Urich literally turned his lighter on and it made Venom run away. A freaking lighter. In contrast to that, there's been scenes where Venom has been surrounded by scorching fire and still was able to do things like lift a building. Fire aside, he has ALWAYS been extremely durable. He's laughed off hits from the Juggernaut, the Thing (who he beat), Ghost Rider, Hulk. It can be assumed Thor would not be able to use his weakness against him anyway.
-At Venom's prime, both publishers and writers of Marvel and DC pit Venom against Superman in a crossover. Yes, its not canon but that doesn't negate the fact both creative teams put Venom on par with Superman. Who has better authority then the writers and publishers of both teams? Again, not to say Eddie Brock's Venom can take on Superman, but it shows how strong they thought Venom was at his prime (same time period he took on Juggernaut).
Obviously not Thor Thor, but Spider-Man has always been shown to be faster and more agile then Thor. This is greatly increased by the symbiote (and throughout the fight, he showed he was much faster and more versatile then Thor). Not to mention, unlike Eddie Brock's Venom, the Superior Venom has a spider-sense.
So we can definitively say Spider-Man (and with the symbiote, this is tenfold) is faster then Thor. It would be very hard for Thor to even land a blow against him, let alone pummel him with ease (as many people in this thread claim he would do).
Although the symbiote is essentially controlling him, he clearly has access to Doc Ock's genius brain. Time and time again, the Superior Spider-Man has shown to be much more tactful and resourceful then Thor.
Can the Superior Venom take on Thor? Maybe. He was shown to take on the Avengers without being inflicted any damage, and towards the end of the fight (no matter what anyone says in this thread), Thor was fighting at his full potential.
I understand what you're saying, but when it comes to Thor cutting loose in an open environment, where he can gain altitude and unleash barrage after barrage against a grounded opponent that has a weakness to heat, Spider-Venom kind of loses badly here. Lightning is hot, really hot, and really fast. The symbiote would be flash fried against Thor going to extremes against him if he was hit. The key word is "if" because like you pointed out, Spider Man has a chance to evade exposure. Another question is how long would he be able to evade?
I do agree that he would give Thor a challenge based on the scans that you presented when this thread began, but that would be in a closed in environment. I'm going on what I saw in those scans, and like it or not they are canon, so....
Originally posted by Warlord
so what tier is Thor now after this well documented analysis that we all have to accept?
High meta maybe?
Or is it Venom herald level?
Depending on who the symbiote is attached to, perhaps. I mean if the symbiote somehow became attached to Namor, Hulk, Ikaris... etc it would likely become quite a threat. It was hinted on during a What If many years ago that it does change power levels depending on the host. So, OnslaughtKILLS isn't saying anything that hasn't appeared in some form or another concerning this.
I'll play along.
Let's ignore all those showings which support Venom not even being able to hurt Thor or the Odinson effortlessly killing him.
What can Venom do if Thor, I don't know, decides to fly up? And then proceed to use Mjolnir or just annihilate everything as far as the eye can see with an aoe attack or blast?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'll play along.Let's ignore all those showings which support Venom not even being able to hurt Thor or the Odinson effortlessly killing him.
What can Venom do if Thor, I don't know, decides to fly up? And then proceed to use Mjolnir or just annihilate everything as far as the eye can see with an aoe attack or blast?
Not a damn thing brother. It would be a closer match based on the scans if they fought in a closet though.