Ironman vs Heralds

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm sorry but am and will always be unimpressed with the WWH arc.

The arc consisted of him not even fighting the actual top dogs. Most of the people he fought he should have beaten even before the supposed amp he had going in.

I mean the only people he fought that were in the weight class from before were. Dr. Strange who he tricked into allowing him to crush his hands before so Strange couldn't use his full powers.

An unleashed Ghost Rider who simply drove away before the fight.

The Sentry who had been pretty inconsistent.

The Juggernaut who managed to fight WWH to a stand still and WWH couldn't damage.

So once again I don't equate WWH has a greater being then most of these guys.

This is what I've always said. He beat the guys he's always beaten (Thing, Colossus, Wolverine et al) but no more. MAYBE Hercules, but no real top dogs.

Originally posted by Galan007
specifically, the energy saber he used to damn-near decapitate a serpent-amped grey gargoyle:
http://i.imgur.com/aSrRNES.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ENlPDp8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BtyS03Z.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aMdCYh9.jpg

I'm still not sure how much stock I would put in that fight when the upper feats for Iron Man and Thor have such a wide margin.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yah, but carver only wants Hulkbuster, so no energy sword. It IS adamantium, though, and we all know what Wolverine can do with it....

Originally posted by Newjak
Yeah I know but it didn't stop him and we found numerous times during that arc that durability of the Worthy weren't necessarily amped. Just their survivability was cranked up.

I'm still not sure how much stock I would put in that fight when the upper feats for Iron Man and Thor have such a wide margin.

by all accounts the bleeding edge armor was near thor-level.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm sorry but am and will always be unimpressed with the WWH arc.

The arc consisted of him not even fighting the actual top dogs. Most of the people he fought he should have beaten even before the supposed amp he had going in.

I mean the only people he fought that were in the weight class from before were. Dr. Strange who he tricked into allowing him to crush his hands before so Strange couldn't use his full powers.

An unleashed Ghost Rider who simply drove away before the fight.

The Sentry who had been pretty inconsistent.

The Juggernaut who managed to fight WWH to a stand still and WWH couldn't damage.

So once again I don't equate WWH has a greater being then most of these guys.

Every last one of those fights he was holding back and majority of them wasn't even long extended fights. Ghost Rider got stomped by the way.

Like I've stated before, no matter what i show you, you are going to deny it. Like here, Pak threw it in our face that the same WWH is above Herald level....

http://s980.photobucket.com/user/ankur2292/media/IncredibleHulk611005.jpg.html

Thor is out there...on the battle field and gets pushed to the side by WWH with Hulk saying "no one out here can beat me, make room for my son". Lol...Hulk knows what Thor can do AND Pak pretty much gave us an indication on where Hulk stood tier wise.

Then we have Thor himself during fear saying that he never could beat the Hulk which resulted with Thor bfring him. Then we have it being outright stated on panel that World War Hulk is physically more powerful. Like I've stated, everything points to Hulk being more powerful...hell, his recent bio depicts him as the most powerful being on the planet. I can go on for days but again, how can I convince someone that is in denial...especially when everything points to me being correct.

Would the Hulkbuster be Thor-level as well?

The problem with his Buster armours are how 1-dimensional they are. Hulkbuster? Make it a brawling melee exosuit lol.

If Thor goes h2h with it, what do you think? Full abilities?

Magneto would rip it apart (remember, Tony had to specifically use carbon nanotubes for his Magsbuster)

And for all the talk about the durability of the Worthy and whether the adamantium blade can slice Thor up, don't forget what Mjolnir did to Angrir.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This is what I've always said. He beat the guys he's always beaten (Thing, Colossus, Wolverine et al) but no more. MAYBE Hercules, but no real top dogs.

He never cut lose. He didn't just beat Wolverine and Colossus either, he beat the entire group of Xmen. He really didn't have any solo fights, not many and the ones he did, they were either treated like nuisances or the fight didn't last.

if he is in standard gear for every fight and no prep tony has 0 chance at out right winning any of these, however if hes given some prep time and knowledge of each one to tinker with some suits he could pull some wins i doubt any majorities still though

Originally posted by Galan007
even if you want to argue that way(even though there's no proof i'm aware of which suggests that thor's head/neck is more durable than serpent-amped gargoyle's was), bleeding edge was able to defeat an amped crimson dynamo and ulik--the same amped duo that thor himself was hard-pressed to contend with in the very same mini.

by all accounts the bleeding edge armor was near thor-level.

👆

Yeah.....of the X-men, who were the most powerful? Who did he beat where you went sh!t, he's been able to do that before!!!

A moot point. Hulk is not in this thread. Stop derailing your own thread lol.

Btw, Iron Man was also holding back against the Hulk lol.

@ DS...

the previous hulkbuster armors definitely possessed thor-level+ strength(and possibly durability), but like you said: they were one trick ponies--brute strength is all they brought to the table. give thor all of his abilities and he'd pick them apart, imo. hopefully this new hulkbuster will prove to be more than just a mech-brick, though. *crosses fingers*

Originally posted by Galan007
even if you want to argue that way(even though there's no proof i'm aware of which suggests that thor's head/neck is more durable than serpent-amped gargoyle's was), bleeding edge was able to defeat an amped crimson dynamo and ulik--the same amped duo that thor himself was hard-pressed to contend with in the very same mini.

by all accounts the bleeding edge armor was near thor-level.

And I'm not denying what happened the arc with Thor and Tony I am just saying I would still be hesitant to claim Bleeding Edge is strong enough to duplicate Thor's best based on one arc. I've always been that way.

Originally posted by carver9
Every last one of those fights he was holding back and majority of them wasn't even long extended fights. Ghost Rider got stomped by the way.

Like I've stated before, no matter what i show you, you are going to deny it. Like here, Pak threw it in our face that the same WWH is above Herald level....

http://s980.photobucket.com/user/ankur2292/media/IncredibleHulk611005.jpg.html

Thor is out there...on the battle field and gets pushed to the side by WWH with Hulk saying "no one out here can beat me, make room for my son". Lol...Hulk knows what Thor can do AND Pak pretty much gave us an indication on where Hulk stood tier wise.

Then we have Thor himself during fear saying that he never could beat the Hulk which resulted with Thor bfring him. Then we have it being outright stated on panel that World War Hulk is physically more powerful. Like I've stated, everything points to Hulk being more powerful...hell, his recent bio depicts him as the most powerful being on the planet. I can go on for days but again, how can I convince someone that is in denial...especially when everything points to me being correct.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah.....of the X-men, who were the most powerful? Who did he beat where you went sh!t, he's been able to do that before!!!

A moot point. Hulk is not in this thread. Stop derailing your own thread lol.

Btw, Iron Man was also holding back against the Hulk lol.

Lord have mercy. I'm done.

Originally posted by Newjak
Yeah I know but it didn't stop him and we found numerous times during that arc that durability of the Worthy weren't necessarily amped. Just their survivability was cranked up.

What?

The Worthy definitely had amped durability. Just look at some of the shit Juggernaut, Angrir, Sin, Attuma and so on were taking. Although clearly some of the Worthy had better showings then others based on what you'd expect.

Speaking of Grey Gargoyle specifically, he was literally no selling Bleeding Edge Iron Man in a way I'd be hard-pressed to imagine anything less then an elite doing:

Originally posted by Newjak
Hulk may have been holding back but he still didn't care about quickly dispatching opponents through brute force. He broke Colossus' arms because he could. Something he was unable to do to Cain.

He gave what he knew wouldn't kill anyone. My argument isn't that Hulk would one punch kill anyone but Pak threw everything from the kitchen table to the house at us so that we'll know how powerful WWH was.

Originally posted by Newjak
I think the proof that would need to be given was that amped Gargoyle's durability was equal to Thor's. Other wise it is just speculation on your part to say Gargoyle's durability at the time was amped enough that the blade could do the same to Thor.

And I'm not denying what happened the arc with Thor and Tony I am just saying I would still be hesitant to claim Bleeding Edge is strong enough to duplicate Thor's best based on one arc. I've always been that way.

i'm not talking about high-end feats, i'm talking about average portrayals--and the bleeding edge armor was definitely in thor's league in that regard. c'mon, not only did BE tony stalemate and/or own an amped duo that thor himself was struggling against, but he went on to stalemate thor himself later in the series. we also have BE tony's battle with serpent-amped GG as proof that his armor can stand up to repeated strikes from thor-level beings AND cause them massive injuries in the process. there's also BE tony trapping an alternate apocalypse in a force-field, but that's neither here nor there...

again, all signs point to the BE armor being in thor's league. like i said earlier, though: sans lucky shots, i don't see the BE beating thor on average, but it can undoubtedly put up a damn good fight.

Good. Because Hulk is not here.

In this thread, if it was a lifting/arm wrestling contest? Tony could give a good account of himself.

All abilities? Heralds win.

Originally posted by Galan007
meh, this part of the argument is pointless--although based on feats, i'd be extremely hesitant to put thor's piercing durability over amped GG's. /shrug

i'm not talking about high-end feats, i'm talking about average portrayals--and the bleeding edge armor was definitely in thor's league in that regard. c'mon, not only did BE tony stalemate and/or own an amped duo that thor himself was struggling against, but he went on to stalemate thor himself later in the series. we also have BE tony's battle with serpent-amped GG as proof that his armor can stand up to repeated strikes from thor-level beings AND cause them massive injuries in the process. there's also BE tony trapping an alternate apocalypse in a force-field, but that's neither here nor there...

again, all signs point to the BE armor being in thor's league. but like i said earlier: sans lucky shots, i don't see the BE beating thor on average--however, it candefinitely put up a damn good fight.

Of course that's a silly argument to make everytime because we couldn't debate these types of things if we always assumed that. By the way what happened to the Bleeding Edge armor is Tony still using it?

Originally posted by Newjak
Fine I'm still not sold completely on Bleeding Edge putting IM into High Herald territory but I admit I can't really refute it either other than to say comics often play around with power levels to make fights more even then they sometimes should be.

Of course that's a silly argument to make everytime because we couldn't debate these types of things if we always assumed that. By the way what happened to the Bleeding Edge armor is Tony still using it?

the bleeding edge armor vanished when mavel did the NOW reboot.