Originally posted by quanchi112
There were two groups fighting against the other. Riddick had someone intervene to try and help him but Vaako broke his back. Khan was fighting a one on one fight and despite Uhura showing up he wasn't defeated by eight of her blasts.
Riddick was also fighting someone else when he got blasted. So both combatants were shot while they were occupied by another person. And again, a phaser on stun (or even kill) does not even remotely have the same concussive force effect that a gravity gun does.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are speculating. Quit making assumptions without any proof, sport.
Every single person hit with a gravity gun was sent flying several yards. That's the effect of a gravity gun. I base what I say off of onscreen proof of what happens to anyone hit with a gravity gun. If you want to claim that Khan is somehow unique and can do what no one else has been shown to (tank a gravity gun blast and not get sent flying), you have to prove it. A phaser set to stun visibly rocked Khan. Phasers set to kill had the same visible effect on the Klingons they hit. Or are you going to suggest that the Klingons can also tank gravity guns without being sent airborne now?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Khan took out trained warriors with hand to hand combat and knives easily. He doesn't have to rely on knife fighting only as this is hand to hand as well. Based off of khan's portrayal and feats he wins over Riddick who gets beat up quite a bit in his own movies.
Riddick performed pure H2H moves, grappling etc. in the group fight. And also against trained Necromomger soldiers. And if Khan is stupid enough to abandon his blades in this fight, he dies even more quickly. Based off of Riddick's feats, he lures Khan into one of the pitch black areas and slices him to ribbons. And if you are going to start the nonsense of Khan having better night vision than Riddick again, please provide any kind of screen example of him showing enhanced night vision.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerOne shot still took him out despite him not taking on the brunt of the blast entirely.
Riddick was also fighting someone else when he got blasted. So both combatants were shot while they were occupied by another person. And again, a phaser on stun (or even kill) does not even remotely have the same concussive force effect that a gravity gun does.Every single person hit with a gravity gun was sent flying several yards. That's the effect of a gravity gun. I base what I say off of onscreen proof of what happens to anyone hit with a gravity gun. If you want to claim that Khan is somehow unique and can do what no one else has been shown to (tank a gravity gun blast and not get sent flying), you have to prove it. A phaser set to stun visibly rocked Khan. Phasers set to kill had the same visible effect on the Klingons they hit. Or are you going to suggest that the Klingons can also tank gravity guns without being sent airborne now?
Riddick performed pure H2H moves, grappling etc. in the group fight. And also against trained Necromomger soldiers. And if Khan is stupid enough to abandon his blades in this fight, he dies even more quickly. Based off of Riddick's feats, he lures Khan into one of the pitch black areas and slices him to ribbons. And if you are going to start the nonsense of Khan having better night vision than Riddick again, please provide any kind of screen example of him showing enhanced night vision.
Khan has sent people flying back much farther as well and to say he goes flying off the platform. That isn't supported at all since it would depend on his location on the platform and not your speculative bs. I never said it doesn't pack power I disputed the point you said it would knock him off of the platform.
Acting as if he isn't skilled enough to roundhouse him or toss the knives into Riddick's body. He is too tactical for Riddick who himself has at times called himself, "civilized."
Originally posted by quanchi112
I know they do so my points still stand.Post the link, infidel.
Originally posted by RJ 2.0That is a different medium so movement is clearly different. We can't ignore his live action films, Johnny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd7pUc7jf8g
Originally posted by quanchi112It is a feature film, that's all that counts.
Yes, they do but that doesn't translate over so well being shown in a different medium and all.
You:
And you would have no problem presenting similar evidence in Khan's favor, butthurt boy.
Originally posted by RJ 2.0I have presented evidence in this very thread. Riddick loses just as he did against Vaako despite the aid Riddick had.
It is a feature film, that's all that counts.You:
And you would have no problem presenting similar evidence in Khan's favor, butthurt boy.
Originally posted by quanchi112
One shot still took him out despite him not taking on the brunt of the blast entirely.
And everyone who took direct hits from those guns died. In the beginning of Riddick, we see that a gravity blast hitting an unprotected head literally blows it to bits. And as for the 8 stuns... Riddick got shot by 4 horse tranquilizers in Riddick, and that didn't put him down either. And an average dose horse tranq is potentially lethal to a normal human.
Also, if you consider cheap shotting someone with a gun while they are fighting someone else as "beating" them, then it doesn't speak much about you as a person. And if you bring up the group nonsense again (which is still irrelevant, considering there are no groups here, and Khan had the Enterprise crew also killing Klingons), I will gladly make a thread of Vaako and 50 Necromonger soldiers VS Khan and a handful of nameless mooks, and we will see who the forum thinks would win that battle.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Khan has sent people flying back much farther as well and to say he goes flying off the platform. That isn't supported at all since it would depend on his location on the platform and not your speculative bs. I never said it doesn't pack power I disputed the point you said it would knock him off of the platform.
He was semi-crouching, and starting to rise, maybe a meter away from the side of the one edge of the platform, when Uhura shot him in the back. Even if he had literally only tumbled 2 meters (which is WAY less than a gravity gun hurls people when it hits them) he would have been thrown off the platform. You have to be blind, biased, stupid, or some combination of the 3 to dispute this.
Also, Riddick sent Lord Marshal flying several meters from an uppercut while rising up from a lying position. What does either of those 2 things have to do with them getting hit by a gravity gun?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Acting as if he isn't skilled enough to roundhouse him or toss the knives into Riddick's body. He is too tactical for Riddick who himself has at times called himself, "civilized."
I love how you try and use a quote from a character as an apparent "feat", but then also totally ignore the context or the rest of the comment. He said that the Necromongers had blindsided him because he had let himself become civilised. He then states that the clock is turned back to zero, and that it was him alone on an unknown planet, and that he would get back in touch with his animal side. And he then spends an unknown period of time (long enough for that weird giant dingo dog thing to fully mature, and his leg to heal) where he does just that. So bringing up the "civilised" thing is utterly pointless.
Riddick has also shown, when not engaged with someone else, relfexes fast enough to dodge gravity gun blasts after they were fired. So he could very well simply dodge any thrown object. He also managed to block, dodge and parry superhumanly fast blows from the Lord Marshal. In fact, the only reason the Lord Marshal had the advantage was because he could use his enhanced speed to attack Riddick from blind spots. A speed advantage Khan does not have.
And Khan is too tactical in a straight fight? Prove it, seeing as you made the claim.
Here are just a few examples of Riddick using tactics:
Taking out a room full of Necromongers with guns, using only his knives, by turning environment to his advantage through killing the lights.
Slowly inoculating himself against the venomous creatures in Riddick, so that their poison wouldn't affect him when he fought them.
Constantly shown to make weapons and traps using what he finds in his environment, and hiding them for later use, to help combat his enemies.
Using Vaako's distraction during the fight with the Lord Marshal to position himself to land the killing blow.
Using stealth and tactics to take out a whole crew of mercenaries on a ship before any of them really know what is happening.
Taking out one of the Lord Marshal's most skilled warriors by using the weapon impaled in his back against him.
And there are other examples of him using tactics and strategy to defeat his enemies as well.
So prove that Khan is too tactical for him. And don't simply say Klingon fight or Spock fight. I want specific examples of him using better tactics than Riddick to beat people 1 on 1. Or otherwise you concede that he can't.
And I am also waiting on your proof to back your claim that Khan has better night vision than Riddick. You did, after all, say that Khan is superior to him in every way.
I admit I made a mistake with the one feat. They weren't Necromongers, they were Helion Prime soldiers. Not that it makes any difference, seeing as the post was an example of tactics Riddick himself has used.
But just to highlight how silly Quan's argument of Khan somehow not getting knocked off the platform is, here are 2 clips:
The first one is some scenes from Chronicles of Riddick. The battle on Crematoria starts just after the 4 minute mark. I tried finding a standalone version of battle on Youtube (ok I only spent like 2 minutes looking), but this is the best I could find:
Second clip is the Spock vs Khan fight. Uhura beams down around 2:40min into the clip:
Now is there anyone here, other than Quan, who thinks that based off of Khan and Uhura's respective positions when she shoots him, as well as the massive concussive force effect a gravity blast creates (people get knocked more like 10m, instead of the massive lowball 2m number I used earlier), that he would not have been knocked off the platform?