The Fulcrum vs CA Supes

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
If we're going by 'comic logic', then Superman is unbeatable.
He will never be TRULY defeated or killed. This is a fact that is undeniable. He is basically DC's (or probably the entire comicdom's) ultimate hero. Yes, his existence in comicdom is even greater than Thor or Batman. And no, I'm not even a fan of Supes.

Anyways, I think the Thought Robot will adapt to The Fulcrum's powers.

Superman's STORY is greater than The Fulcrum, and that is enough to defeat it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's because TOAA is based on real human beings.

The artist in your scan hasn't drawn the story yet, which is why it's a mystery to him.

TOAA is not referring to something located somewhere like this Fulcrum is. (heck, TOAA draws the location and item)

TOAA is referring to actual stories that make up comics, histories.

Here's TOAA's "collaborator" (writer obviously) giving him [b]real world ideas to draw in comics:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19336867/TOAA1.jpg.html

Here's the full scan of your linked crop that elaborates on the context:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19336869/TOAA2.jpg.html

The artist (half of TOAA) is explaining how the evolving lives of the FF (stories in comics) intrigues him.

And I agree, since he only draws while the writer thinks up the stories.
[/B]

I understand. And the same thing applies to Fulcrum as well. But yeah, i was mistaken to compare a depiction of TOAA as a real world person (like FF #511) and a supreme being within the comic book reality (like the Fulcrum). Sp perhaps this one should clarify my point.

Fulcrum "searching" for anything, is similar to TOAA needing Thanos to fix the flaw. Sure it was never stated that he needed Thanos, but one could easily ask why did he give Thanos the HOTI to begin with.

Originally posted by Mr Master

This is an unquestionable portrayal of real humans (writer/artist) being portrayed as TOAA.
In the same fashion it's not surprising they're limited like real world humans.

But they have no limits when it comes to stories already written that are situated in comics.
They can do whatever they like since it's just ink and paper to them.

So, if Fulcrum is TOAA, then stating Taimut is as powerful as him, has to be taken as a joke: (like She-Hulk killing TOAA)

Which makes the whole story a joke!

Or, the Fulcrum is not TOAA and instead a powerful cosmic that came out of nowhere.

And the same thing applies to the Fulcrum. Or do you think that the Fulcrum being called "jack" and it being the master of Celestials (similar to how Jack Kirby actually created the Celestials), and a picture of the Fulcrum being similar to how Kirby looks (the instance where he referred to Tiamut as his equal in power) is all a coincidence?

And you're saying this as if comics haven't depicted characters exceeding the supreme being. Because fact is, they have.
In Supergirl v4, the Carnivore usurped the Presence after blackmailing him (he threatened to kill one of its aspects).
And in Swamp Thing v2, Swamp Thing evolved into a power greater than God.
The titan brothers in the Lucifer series also usurped the Presence.
Etc..

And you yourself think that LT, empowered by TOAA, was determining if he had enough power to take on IG Warlock (something which i disagree with but that's beside the point), so it shouldn't be too hard to accept Tiamut being equal to a supreme being due to retarded writing.

And this is all different from She-Hulk killing John Bryne. That was just pure comedy and not to be taken seriously. throughout the entire She-Hulk run there was 4th wall breaking comedy.

Take for example Sensational She-Hulk #37, where she literally commanded Bryne to draw the background and her apartment back. Which he did. Obviously this is a joke, how can TOAA (the writer) be commanded by a character he's writing/controlling? That's not even mentioning that She-Hulk is not exactly a cosmic level character.
So one can easily differentiate the tone between the Sensational She-Hulk series and the Eternals series to come to the conclusion that the She Hulk shouldn't be taken seriously while the Eternals should.

Originally posted by Mr Master

The Fulcrum supposedly existed before the current universe, and was looking for a companion since the big crunch.

That right there, makes this Fulcrum a character based on absolute fiction.

And there are other implications that he isn't.

Similar to how in other instances, TOAA is a character based on absolute fiction.

Originally posted by Mr Master

I've never seen TOAA being portrayed without any indication given to us we're dealing with 4th wall fiascos.

the Spider-man instance.

Among others. Like the time when TOAA declared that the infinity gems shouldn't be used in unison. There wasn't any indication that he's a real world writer. Well actually there wasn't any indication before FF #511 anyway (sure, there are multiple instances across Marvel titles where real writers manifested in comic books, but they weren't exactly considered TOAA; only after the FF issue were writers and the supreme being, by the name of TOAA, were equated to be the same being.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Cool. Still no matter the adjective preceding the title, it's still the "Fulcrum."

"All high Fulcrum" kind of implies that he is higher than everyone. Similar to how the one above all implies that he is above everyone.

Originally posted by operator616

I understand. And the same thing applies to Fulcrum as well. But yeah, i was mistaken to compare a depiction of TOAA as a real world person (like FF #511) and a supreme being within the comic book reality (like the Fulcrum).

Originally posted by operator616

Fulcrum "searching" for anything, is similar to TOAA needing Thanos to fix the flaw. Sure it was never stated that he needed Thanos, but one could easily ask why did he give Thanos the HOTI to begin with.

Also, they gave Thanos HOTI so we can enjoy a good story. (but HOTI is really ink on paper to TOAA)

Originally posted by operator616

And the same thing applies to the Fulcrum. Or do you think that the Fulcrum being called "jack" and it being the master of Celestials (similar to how Jack Kirby actually created the Celestials), and a picture of the Fulcrum being similar to how Kirby looks (the instance where he referred to Tiamut as his equal in power) is all a coincidence?

Yet, while it is a powerful cosmic, imo, it is not TOAA. At-least not based on the evidence I've seen so far.

Originally posted by operator616

And you're saying this as if comics haven't depicted characters exceeding the supreme being. Because fact is, they have.
In Supergirl v4, the Carnivore usurped the Presence after blackmailing him (he threatened to kill one of its aspects).
And in Swamp Thing v2, Swamp Thing evolved into a power greater than God.
The titan brothers in the Lucifer series also usurped the Presence.
Etc..

Originally posted by operator616

And you yourself think that LT, empowered by TOAA, was determining if he had enough power to take on IG Warlock (something which i disagree with but that's beside the point), so it shouldn't be too hard to accept Tiamut being equal to a supreme being due to retarded writing.

LT having to determine that, is Starlin giving us reference to how powerful the IG was.
But the IG is nothing but paper and ink to TOAA. (LT empowered is only significant within the confines of TOAA's canvas)
So, when I see TOAA being taken advantage of by their artwork, it's not to be taken seriously.
(or classic She-Hulk > LT + omniverse)

Otherwise, if it's a serious setting, then imo it's not TOAA.

Originally posted by operator616

And this is all different from She-Hulk killing John Bryne. That was just pure comedy and not to be taken seriously. throughout the entire She-Hulk run there was 4th wall breaking comedy.
Take for example Sensational She-Hulk #37, where she literally commanded Bryne to draw the background and her apartment back. Which he did. Obviously this is a joke, how can TOAA (the writer) be commanded by a character he's writing/controlling? That's not even mentioning that She-Hulk is not exactly a cosmic level character.
So one can easily differentiate the tone between the Sensational She-Hulk series and the Eternals series to come to the conclusion that the She Hulk shouldn't be taken seriously while the Eternals should.

Obviously this is a joke, how can TOAA (the writer) be equalled by a character he's writing/controlling?

So, we agree.

Originally posted by operator616

And there are other implications that he isn't.

Similar to how in other instances, TOAA is a character based on absolute fiction.

Originally posted by operator616

the Spider-man instance.

I know that issue well. There's at-least 4 separate instances where clearly it's TOAA (writer) portrayed as the bum.

Context of the story makes this evident.

---------------------------------------------------

Here,
Peter asks TOAA to Re-Write his history, so that uncle Ben, Gwen, her father,
Harry and even aunt May, (who was now in a coma dying) could all live.

TOAA looks at Peter with impossibility in its eyes.

Why? Because this isn't changing the context of a single story, withIN a single book,
this would involve over 50 years of print and 1000s of Spidey books in real life
that would have to be wished away, and well, in the real world, that's impossible.

---------------------------------------------------

Here, TOAA actually refers to a real life comic run that involved Spidey many times:

TOAA: "Thousands of people you saved"
Peter: "Thousands? Really?"
TOAA: Well, I'm counting Team-Ups, but yeah."

(Marvel Team-Up - about 150 issues published between 72' & 85'😉

---------------------------------------------------

TOAA relates to Peter's humanity,
since this is a representation of this comic's writer:

"We all have a purpose Peter, we all have a role to play"

...........................................................................

In the end, it's quite obvious this is the Writer that manifested himself on panel.

TOAA tells us he's gonna write for Peter a happy ending in this story:

Originally posted by operator616

Among others. Like the time when TOAA declared that the infinity gems shouldn't be used in unison. There wasn't any indication that he's a real world writer.

Originally posted by operator616

Well actually there wasn't any indication before FF #511 anyway (sure, there are multiple instances across Marvel titles where real writers manifested in comic books, but they weren't exactly considered TOAA; only after the FF issue were writers and the supreme being, by the name of TOAA, were equated to be the same being.

Originally posted by operator616

"All high Fulcrum" kind of implies that he is higher than everyone.

Similar to how the one above all implies that he is above everyone.

😛

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Superman's STORY is greater than The Fulcrum, and that is enough to defeat it.