Kyle Katarn and Jaden Korr Vs Kao Cen Doroch and Satale Shan

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy

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Oh and while the Reborn may not have been force sensitives here's something you should take a look even though you'll probably dismiss it. They Are considered Dark Jedi deal with it.

Hethrir had entrusted Desann with training a number of his loyal Empire Youths that were "purified" by a trans-dimensional being called Waru. The Dark Jedi used the Force nexus in the Valley of the Jedi, whose location Desann had tricked Kyle Katarn into revealing, quadrupling their powers with the residue of the ancient Jedi and Sith spirits. Wielding their own lightsabers, and wearing cloaked uniforms, they were a military organization that would support Hethrir's Empire Reborn and posed a serious threat to both the New Republic and Skywalker's newly established Jedi Order."

Unlike the Cultists that lost their powers when the scepter was destroyed, when Desann was defeated The Reborn KEPT their quadrupled powers and as such these Dark Jedi present a much bigger threat to Jaden

You do realize how universally idiotic you sound right now right?
I've never said Rosh was Jaden's equal - far from it, he's not on his level at all, but He dueled Jaden when he was being amped by two of Tavion's Top two men and AFTER Jaden Killed them, while he still may have lost he survived were COUNTLESS did not and that is impressive.

And all of them are great and powerful Jedi masters and/or Sith Lords. or are you gonna bring up Rivi Anu and say something very foolish?

Alora is literally the Dark Jedi version of Jaden, they are made up to be equals until he finally defeats her, Again she was so fast in her use of lightning that Jaden Had barely enough time to react and it sent him flying backwards! Alora is the dark equivalent of Jaden by the time he faces her on Taspir III!

It implies mastery of battle from JADEN!! The fact that He took on COUNTLESS of powerful Reborn and Their artificially infused counter-parts implies great mastery of the lightsaber and Versatility. Though Kao Cen's duel with Vindican is impressive this is a weaker version of Malgus and a featless sith lord and he lost, Jaden has taken on a much more powerful version of Tavion who managed to rally former reborn, the empire, Mercenaries and Cultist to her cause and they followed her! No dark jedi or empire follows someone without fearing them and the fact that she lead her cult without question is a show of her power, Ragnos may have had something to with it, but how many people did you think she had to "Convince" so that they would join her cause?

These ****ing Reborn - which are the main enemies of Jaden for the 2nd and 3rd acts of the games, Are not "untrained" Even Luke regarded as powerful during the Outcast game, The reborn are powerful swordsmen and force users, Utilizing force abilities like Force Rage, Force Lighting and Force Drain along with their Core abilities - The cultist where infused with powerful energies that allowed them to use the deadly and power force lightning, Drain and Choke, they were trained to kill jedi and support Tavion. You honestly think Tavion Would send untrained peons to face Jedi? come on!

You mean like Exar Kun's spirit's strength is "irrelevant?" despite not even being on Ragnos' level in terms of Dark Side mastery?

Wasn't he facing the clone of a ****ing NJO council member! and didn't he get distracted when he lost three of his fingers! he in no way got "stomped" he was distracted and much like how Starkiller dealt with Shaak Ti, Alpha got a lucky shot. He nearly died, but he won in the end

😆 Funny, don't you and Nephthys(sorry Neph) Make the HoT, Emperor's Wrath, Nox, The Barsen'thor and the rest of their Ilk up to be gods because of Gameplay mechanics?

Aw your hurt my feelings fan boy.

because defeating countless amounts of powerful Reborn/Dark Jedi and Artificially infused warriors can't totally be done by this featless shmuck? the same shmuck that supposedly lost against some one he had already beaten? and what has Orgus done to make his TK comparable? take down a few of the cave's supports and the rest just falls down THAT! that is ****ing comparable to moving a Large ****ing pillar, sending a boulder flying, Opening a Large ****ing door! ****ING THAT! 😆

So Morgan Katarn becoming a force ghost shows a certain level of power too?

Jaden was praised as one of the most promising Young jedi of the entire academy, Luke himself thought that his defeating Rosh and The Kathos twins was impressive enough for him to be quickly elevated to apprentice and later Jedi Knight.

His feats are not "Above average" they are things only powerful jedi could ever reenact, don't bring you TOR mook and compare him to someone whose obviously above him.

Jaden? Featless! LOL okay, yeah sure, why not. Yeah because your opinion from weeks ago isn't relevant at all despite it showing how you quickly disregard anything I say. okay sure/

So the same could be said about Orgus din for losing to some one he had already beaten? or are we going for a double-standard here?

So unless they have recognition...they will never seem impressive. Okay, Yeah, Flawed Logic seems Legit 👆

Don't kid yourself Fan boy, You've yet to make a single argument that puts Darach on the same level as Jaden. Keep trying 😉

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
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first off I apologize for insulting you and Nephthys
Look its obvious we see Jaden's prowess and skill very differently, I see him as a powerful TK user, an expert duelist and a deadly combatant, you see him otherwise or maybe even the same but with A few differences. The fact of the matter is we put him on very different levels, I think he IS capable of taking on people like Kao Cen Darach, you don't and that's fine, but lets not draw this out, I'm tired of trying to make you see things my way, You have your opinion, I have mine. If you want to take this as me conceding, fine, whatever, Have at if hoss. I'm still a firm believer that Jaden is a much better warrior and combatant than Kao Cen, but that's just my opinion. I'm done dealing with you.

That's not impressive.

Satele's TK is has actually been used in a combat situation

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
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On second thought, No **** it I'm not backing down, You constantly bring down Jaden and every single attempt I make on truthfully providing people with knowledge of his strength and prowess. I wont let your ignorance keep misleading people about His power.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No one ever said that Kyle needed to draw on his anger to defeat Tavion. And considering that Kyle didn't need to draw on his anger to defeat an amped Desaan

watch?v=N4g_Of8Fpbk

No one said otherwise either, does this Man not sound angry to you Slice! he was clearly drawing on his anger, this proves it.
And I never did I say that his anger helped him against Desann, that would've been foolish of me, considering Kyle even tries to sway Desann back into the light during their final confrontation. Don't put words in my mouth.

Alora has never been shown to be Jaden's equal, her lightning only pushes him back in the N-canon ending, and even then it was a surprise hit. And she snuck into the temple while everyone else was distracted and disturbing the Force at the temple.

You are correct on the Alora only using her lightning in the N-canon ending, I completely forgot, My apologies. But regardless, even with the disturbing force No one sensed her?, not even the grandmaster of the order? or the other masters?

No, neither groups were made out of Force Sensitives. Both were being amped by outside means to compete with Jedi. This is why everyone remarks on why there are so many of them

No they aren't. You have to be Force Sensitive to be a Dark Jedi. Even by Wookiepedia's standard, which seems to be your go to source.

Go to wookieepedia look up Dark Jedi that says Tavion/Desann's reborn are Dark jedi.

But regardless of that, the Reborn's powers Quadrupled with the Valley of the Jedi and they made up the bulk of the cult and they retained they're power, now imagine if they were infused with the dark side energies of the cultist as well wouldn't that make it all the more impressive that Jaden defeated them?

Finally, Kyle fought most of these, not Jaden. Considering that at the end of Jedi Academy it's stated the cult lost their powers, most of them weren't Force Sensitive.

Look up battle of Vjun jedi knight academy. and TRY to prove me wrong. this is what they say

Luke "So, now we know who is leading this cult; but it doesn't explain why there are some many dark force users"
Kyle says "Some of Desann's left over Reborn were with her, as for the cultist Jaden has a theory"

[QUOTE]Nope, the point is that it doesn't give him the edge in this fight. Most of them have also done far more with TK then moving statues back into their proper place and moving lose rocks. Jaden's best TK feat is the obelisk.

The giant boulder was stuck in place, the large ass pillar had a weak point but he still had to make it form a bridge other wise it would've fallen. This can transition to a combat situation.

No they aren't. Jaden said she was no match for him before and even she didn't deny it

Alora pushed Jaden back during the start of their duel on Taspir, though no one got the edge, she still shows herself to be very aggressive. Though Jaden was the superior of the two she was somewhat on his level she wouldn't have survived their first encounter if she wasn't(I said survive not win)

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More endurance than any other ****ing 13yr old youngling has ever shown, more endurance than Kao Cen Darach, Orgus Din, Quinlan Vos. He has more dueling prowess and feats than Saesee Tiin. he accomplished more as a thirteen year old than Darach did in his life time, that's not me bragging that's a fact!

Most Reborn can't actually duel properly trained Jedi and no, they aren't Jaden's primary enemy. And you're literally just naming powers they used in gameplay, none of which has been called deadly anywhere.

Imma bring in gameplay mechanics and say that The Jedi NPC tend to die quite a lot when facing The New Reborn, though like I said it is gameplay mechanic and randomized they often die if left alone and even when you are fighting along side them they die. but is where's your source of this info? how could they not properly duel a jedi?

It's been well longer for Ragnos than it has been for Kun. A lot longer.

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some game mechanics are scripted to happen - like Rage, will always be used when the Reborn's health is reaches 75, Drain is usually used when they are below 5o health I believe, though choke and lightning are random.

My favorite characters come from the PT. But please, do go on. If anyone's showed fanboyism, it's you, blowing game mechanics way out of proportion and using charged words.

All of the things I said regarding Jaden's TK are a REQUIREMENT you are required to push the large ass boulder flying you are required to push the giant pillar down. You are required to open the large door with the force.

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Taking on multiple of those "Mooks" with different styles and saber types - Duel wielders, Saber staff user and single hilts, shows that Jaden is a very versatile duelist, This implies great mastery of adaptability and dueling prowess similar to Revan's great adaptability though not quite on Revan's level.

[QUOTE]Uh, yes, actually.

In a time when Jedi Knights are few and far between, sure. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with power level and more with showing a level of maturity by passing the trials.

Luke acknowledges his power countless of time, he told Wedge Antilles that one day Jaden would a make a great jedi, Luke says. quote. "Jaden, you did more than we ever could've ever hoped, you have become a true jedi" and at the end of the game he says. "Jaden, you have fought bravely, resisted the dark side, and saved another jedi from certain death. You will be a valuable member of the jedi order" Jaden maturity, skill and power are all what made him a powerful member of the order. don't keep downplaying him

Nope, but when nothing shows they are powerful and they have no recognition for being powerful, I'm not going to assume that they are for an internet debate.

Yet Jaden's power and skill is recognized by Kyle katarn and the grandmaster, Luke skywalker himself and that doesn't make him at all powerful? really?

You haven't made an argument to but Jaden on the level of anyone but Jaden.

I honest to god don't understand what your trying to say with this

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
On second thought, No **** it I'm not backing down, You constantly bring down Jaden and every single attempt I make on truthfully providing people with knowledge of his strength and prowess. I wont let your ignorance keep misleading people about His power.

You dare talk about Carthage that way

Originally posted by realslimshady25
You dare talk about Carthage that way

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
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though i know you probably wont respond i feel the need to mention this, I keep forgetting to mention, that Jaden beat Boba Fett, the same boba fett that nearly killed Kyle.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
though i know you probably wont respond i feel the need to mention this, I keep forgetting to mention, that Jaden beat Boba Fett, the same boba fett that nearly killed Kyle.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
True enough. I didn't see your response, but if I had, I'd just disagree with you back and forth over the validity of said things. If you're trying convince me that Jaden is impressive, you're wasting your time. I already know he's impressive. The point is, Jaden, as shown, isn't as fleshed out as I would like him to be to compete with the others in this thread. Neither is Kao Cen Doroch. I've dismissed both of these two and have brought it up to if Satele or Kyle could beat the other and then help their teammate, but if you really want me to go through them all again and give my opinion, I could.

What I want from you is an answer, Jaden obviously has great - not godly TK feats like Vader or Yoda, He has quotes from the man himself, Luke skywalker who praises him as a warrior, Kyle Katarn calls him the greatest student he's ever trained, he was the most active member in the Ragnos crisis, defeated Boba fett(correct me if I am wrong but didn't Boba nearly kill Jaina?) he's regarded as dangerous by Wrylock. again has done some TK feats and other powers - Like force protection, which is he used during Vjun, the fact that he had to keep focus whilst running cover to cover and fighting off Hazard troopers is impressive. But you have all of that yet you don't think he - at his peak, could take on Kao Cen Darach, obviously there's the fact that he nearly died at the hands of Kam Salusar? clone but he still has a great deal of experience in terms of real combat prowess. I see him as much more fleshed out than Darach, but I really want to get your perspective of this please, I deserve it you made me develop a twitch lol

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
What I want from you is an answer, Jaden obviously has great - not godly TK feats like Vader or Yoda, He has quotes from the man himself, Luke skywalker who praises him as a warrior, Kyle Katarn calls him the greatest student he's ever trained, he was the most active member in the Ragnos crisis, defeated Boba fett(correct me if I am wrong but didn't Boba nearly kill Jaina?) he's regarded as dangerous by Wrylock. again has done some TK feats and other powers - Like force protection, which is he used during Vjun, the fact that he had to keep focus whilst running cover to cover and fighting off Hazard troopers is impressive. But you have all of that yet you don't think he - at his peak, could take on Kao Cen Darach, obviously there's the fact that he nearly died at the hands of Kam Salusar? clone but he still has a great deal of experience in terms of real combat prowess. I see him as much more fleshed out than Darach, but I really want to get your perspective of this please, I deserve it you made me develop a twitch lol

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Based on feats, sure Kam would lose; Kam is featless. But Kam has the usual wanking that every well known Jedi master has, and has shown relative proficiency to most of Jaden's combat feats. Neither have shown Force feats above any other strong Jedi, Jaden just more of them and obviously the obelisk, but I doubt control will come into play in this situation. I can see Jaden beating Kao, I could see Kao beating Jaden, though admittedly Jaden being flashed out more gives him more evidence for said victories. So in the end, I seem them both as irrelevant and want to focus more on if Satele can beat Kyle or Kyle could beat Satele.

I see but, how can you see Kao Cen winning? i mean his only feats are using the unorthodox Jar'kai, uaing TK to hurl debris(large debris) at Malgus and getting himself beaten by this weaker version of Malgus, I mean Tavion nor Alora are not anywhere near Malgus, but Ragnos(his power comes into question, but his skill with the blade would not have become useless) does come near malgus considering his Hype(though that is just hype) i just don't see Darach as a guy who could hold his own against some one like Quinlan Vos or Jaden both of whom i consider pretty equal. Also i keep forgetting that Jaden also survived a shot from The scepter of Ragnos which has been able to bring down a rooftop and break through walls as seen in the N-canon Dark side ending.

Eh, Jaden unlike walls has Force shields.

I see beating Tavion's dead body as up in the air. Yes Ragnos has his sword, but Tavion's body was wrecked even before he destroyed it. And as Darach was able to hold off Malgus and his master, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to hold off Jaden long enough for the others to finish their duel.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Eh, Jaden unlike walls has Force shields.

I see beating Tavion's dead body as up in the air. Yes Ragnos has his sword, but Tavion's body was wrecked even before he destroyed it. And as Darach was able to hold off Malgus and his master, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to hold off Jaden long enough for the others to finish their duel.

Well actually he was only able to hold off vindican with one saber and had to resort to Jar'Kai against both of them, but when Malgus used his variation of Jar'kai he completely demolished him afterwards, now I don't think Jaden is near Malgus' level, but like I said before this is a weak version of Malgus. and Jaden has trained under the NJO's foremost expert and master of lightsaber combat.

"Hold off" loosely meaning not dying. From someone of even Apprentice Malak's caliber, that's saying a lot. It's more about the weapon proficiency. I also don't think Apprentice Malak is too far below the one seen in Deceived or Hope. I can see Kao holding Jaden off simply because Jaden doesn't fight as aggressively as Malgus and Kao is one of the foremost expert and master of lightsaber combat of his time.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
"Hold off" loosely meaning not dying. From someone of even Apprentice Malak's caliber, that's saying a lot. It's more about the weapon proficiency. I also don't think Apprentice Malak is too far below the one seen in Deceived or Hope. I can see Kao holding Jaden off simply because Jaden doesn't fight as aggressively as Malgus and Kao is one of the foremost expert and master of lightsaber combat of his time.

But Kyle has more feats to back him up, defeating Jerec and his seven Dark Jedi, Desann while he was amped, Tavion, and has some pretty good TK and other force powers. Plus he's second only to the most strongest of NJO masters apparently.

Like I said Kyle is Jaden's master and Jaden as a 13 year old he accomplished quite a lot. Still not fighting as aggressively is not a bad thing and you of all people should know that. we need only look at Dooku for that.