Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yes, I am aware of Shan's feats. Though like Nomi's and Bastila's, they aren't totally combat directed. Keeping up with Revan in a "brutal" battle, then previously causing his Dark Lord himself to become "desperate" in combat is a superior combat and speed showing then really anything Shan has demonstrated.
No it isn't. Not in terms of speed or strength or even lightsaber skill. Revan had just fought through the Star Forge and had to defeat Malak multiple times. Malak managing to put up a decent fight isn't indicative of superiority to Satele. Given the same advantages she could easily do the same. Probably even beat Revan in fact.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Having lightning capable of killing a Jedi instantly is superior then anything she performed with the droids, as does having a Force Stun mastery with a 3-0 record.
And his lightning is utterly useless against her Tutaminis. Also that Jedi was already being ragdolled, so I doubt he had force defenses up. Force Stun is similarly not going to effect her.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ultimately who's to say that with his powers amplified even greater by the Star Forge, he cannot replicate his feet on Satele herself?
Lmao.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And must I redirect you to him throwing a Mandalorian hundreds of feet?
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140132/3825656-malak+pushhh.png
This is really nothing that special tbh. It's nowhere close to shattering a blast door or cubing a Jedi-level droid with a flick of her wrist.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ultimately, if you like it or not, Mr. Karpyshyn displays Malak and Revan as half of a full. They are closer in power then you believe."For me, Malak was always the 'brawn' to Revan's 'brain' - he was renowned for his combat abilities, and I always felt that he was even better than Revan with a lightsaber. I also felt that he wasn't as strong at using the Force in other ways as Revan was."
―Drew Karpyshyn (Author)
Don't care. Feats and showings prove otherwise. Revan sliced off Malak's jaw, not the other way around.
Originally posted by Nephthys (Today)
Revan had just fought through the Star Forge and had to defeat Malak multiple times.
Originally posted by Nephthys (A couple days ago)
Also Revan had time to rest during the Star Forge battle, while he was making his new robes and talking to Bastila and Malak before fighting them.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Malak managing to put up a decent fight isn't indicative of superiority to Satele.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No it isn't. Not in terms of speed or strength or even lightsaber skill.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And his lightning is utterly useless against her Tutaminis.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also that Jedi was already being ragdolled, so I doubt he had force defenses up.
Originally posted by Nephthys
This is really nothing that special tbh. It's nowhere close to shattering a blast door or cubing a Jedi-level droid with a flick of her wrist.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Don't care. Feats and showings prove otherwise. Revan sliced off Malak's jaw, not the other way around.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Don't give me double-standards, Neph.
He still had to fight Bastila multiple times, defeat that room of infinitely spawning droids and beat Malak multiple times. Besides, I only said that he had some time to rest, but he could still have minor wounds and some weariness. The fact is that Malak had a ton of advantages and still got shit-stomped.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except Satele Shan's greatest combat showing is holding her own against Darth Malgus from "Hope" according to SWTORE.
Darth Malak contesting in a "brutal" battle with Revan on the Star Forge is much more impressive then this.
And don't forget this is Darth Malak with the Star Forge in the battle. 😉
I just think that it's wank of the highest order to give Malak the win JUST because he managed to give KOTOR Revan a good fight. I know you like Revan, but come the eff on. Malak had tons of advantages in that fight and still lost again and again and again and again and again. He is far below Kotor Revan, let alone Revan Reborn, who has most of Revan's actually impressive feats.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It is a display that Darth Malak can press Revan in combat to a far point.
Having impressive speed, strength, and lightsaber skill is required for this to happen.
Not really with the speed and strength considering Revan has next to no feats in that. I can't believe that you're giving Malak the nod in several areas purely because he managed to fight Kotor Revan.
Satele was able to blast 3 Sith into the air then cut them down from several meters away before they'd even started falling. With strength she managed to hold off Malgus with one hand while using the Force.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That wasn't the point. The point rather was he has "incredible power", as demonstrated by his lightning.
Gee and here Satele only have "slightly above the norm" power. 😬
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ragdolling a Jedi is also very impressive. Though it is logical to assume an instinctual Force barrier was put up in a last-effort to save themselves.
And Satele can take out multiple Sith with a single attack, well before her prime. As well as shatter blast doors casually and cube super battledroids with a gesture.
Its not logical. He was already being ragdolled, his defenses wouldn't be up.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Erm, what? Demagol, a famed Mandalorian (a warrior race that rivals the Jedi Order according to sources), was thrown *hundreds* of feet. That is highly impressive.
It doesn't matter if he was a famed barber his weight would be the same. And I don't find it impressive to throw a human that far. It's less than an Obi-Wan level feat, let alone a Satele Shan level feat. It's not in the same ballpark as her.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Feat and showings don't prove otherwise. In their three battles, Darth Malak has proved himself excellently against Revan.
In one, it was described as "desperate" In another, it was described as "brutal". Hell, Malak even beat Revan once.
And amnesiac, half-baked Revan sure. In the other two Revan cut his jaw off and humiliated him and in the other Revan beat the piss out of him over and over again despite being disadvantaged and before Revan's prime.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Why is losing to Revan a poor showcase? He's goddamn Revan. No one else in that time period sans the KotOR2 gang could rival him!
Ignoring statements that suggest Revan and Malak are close in power is really lame Neph. Revan was so beat up in the Star Forge battle he required time to recover.
You mean, besides Kotor 2 AND the Sith Empire? And Satele does rival him in her era. Without needing a nexus amp and 5 goes at him as well. Even straight up she'd give Revan a great fight, forget about being able to fight him multiple times in a row.
It was a pain replying to this since you had 5 different main ideas in each response. If I forgot anything, let me know.
Originally posted by Nephthys
He still had to fight Bastila multiple times, defeat that room of infinitely spawning droids and beat Malak multiple times. Besides, I only said that he had some time to rest, but he could still have minor wounds and some weariness.
Originally posted by Nephthys (First Response)
The fact is that Malak had a ton of advantages and still got shit-stomped.
Originally posted by Nephthys (Second Response)
...he managed to give KOTOR Revan a good fight.
Originally posted by Nephthys (Third Response)
...he managed to fight Kotor Revan.
Originally posted by Nephthys (Seventh Response)
Revan beat the piss out of him over and over again
😐 Stop smoking Neph. You made like 4 different opinions on the same topic in the same thread. I was unaware "good fight" is the same as "shit-stomped."
However, regardless of your interpretations of the fight, I fail to understand why you ignore the only statement on the fight, which crowns it as "brutal."
- - - - -
[Note, the below should cover nearly all your quotes. Your entire debate revolves around Malak getting hammered with Revan on the Star Forge.
You said this goddamn thing for 1/2 of your actual debate again and again and again in different variations.]
Originally posted by Nephthys
just think that it's wank of the highest order to give Malak the win JUST because he managed to give KOTOR Revan a good fight.
I don't place Malak where he is because he fought Revan. I place him where he is because of his performance against Revan.
I also don't really understand how I "wank of the highest order" for Malak. I place him as a rough equal to Darth Maul from Son of Dathomir.
Meanwhile, I place Satele Shan as a rough equal to Obi-Wan Kenobi based on how she fared against Darth Malgus and Mekhis.
I won't lie when I say based on depictions of the fight, he did much better against Revan then Shan did against Malgus. She lasted only damn 30 seconds against Malgus in lightsaber combat.
• The first 10 seconds of the fight was actual direct combat and lightsaber attacks.
• The next 10 seconds was Malgus pressing his lightsaber against Shan's and a tree falling.
• The next 5 seconds are once again actual direct combat and lightsaber attacks
• The final 5 seconds are Shan being pushed then leaping out of Malgus's attacks until she's disarmed.
In total, there was literally only 15 seconds of direct combat. And in such, Malgus was not injured.
I fail to see how this is even comparable, considering Revan is above Hope Malgus and that Malak lasted "multiple pages" against Revan.
- - - - -
This is not even mentioning only stalemating damn Mekhis, who a non-Force sensitive beat.
watch?v=xTt8IzilofM&feature=kp
Originally posted by Nephthys
and 5 goes at him as well.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really with the speed and strength considering Revan has next to no feats in that.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Without needing a nexus amp
Originally posted by Nephthys
Malak had tons of advantages
So...where is the 1000+ advantages coming from? 🙄
Originally posted by Nephthys
Malak hadtons ofadvantages in that fight and still lost again and again.and again and again and again.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Satele was able to blast 3 Sith into the air then cut them down from several meters away before they'd even started falling...And Satele can take out multiple Sith with a single attack
Originally posted by Nephthys
With strength she managed to hold off Malgus with one hand while using the Force.
Originally posted by Nephthys
As well as shatter blast doors casually
Originally posted by Nephthys
and cube super battledroids with a gesture.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It doesn't matter if he was a famed barber his weight would be the same. And I don't find it impressive to throw a human that far. It's less than an Obi-Wan level feat, let alone a Satele Shan level feat. It's not in the same ballpark as her.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its not logical. He was already being ragdolled, his defenses wouldn't be up.
Originally posted by Nephthys
In the other two Revan cut his jaw off and humiliated him
Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean, besides Kotor 2 AND the Sith Empire?
Originally posted by Nephthys
And Satele does rival him in her era.
Revan's command of the force as a whole, including both the light and dark would allow him to some pretty crazy things.
For example Revan could command the light side and force sever team one, and or then he could command the dark side and create a non stop force lightning aura that would incinerate them.
Or he could combine the powers and create a storm of force sever beams.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Neph, I know and said all of this in our debate, lol.
Once again, I am not enjoying these double-standards.
Ok. But that doesn't stop it from being true. Malak explicitly sent him army out to weaken Revan. That happened, Ant.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
😐 Stop smoking Neph. You made like 4 different opinions on the same topic in the same thread. I was unaware "good fight" is the same as "shit-stomped."
However, regardless of your interpretations of the fight, I fail to understand why you ignore the only statement on the fight, which crowns it as "brutal."- - - - -
[Note, the below should cover nearly all your quotes. Your entire debate revolves around Malak getting hammered with Revan on the Star Forge.
You said this goddamn thing for 1/2 of your actual debate again and again and again in different variations.]
I don't smoke. You're aware of exaggeration, right? When I'm talking about him stomping him, I'm referring to the fact that Revan beat him multiple times in a row despite the fighting he had to do to get to him. I count that as being beaten rather badly. I'm aware that it was a grueling fight for Revan, but I still don't think that means Malak can beat Satele.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I don't place Malak where he is because he fought Revan. I place him where he is because of his performance against Revan.
That's literally the same thing I said.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I also don't really understand how I "wank of the highest order" for Malak. I place him as a rough equal to Darth Maul from Son of Dathomir.
Meanwhile, I place Satele Shan as a rough equal to Obi-Wan Kenobi based on how she fared against Darth Malgus and Mekhis.
Obi-Wan > Maul. 😉
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I won't lie when I say based on depictions of the fight, he did much better against Revan then Shan did against Malgus. She lasted only damn 30 seconds against Malgus in lightsaber combat.
• The first 10 seconds of the fight was actual direct combat and lightsaber attacks.
• The next 10 seconds was Malgus pressing his lightsaber against Shan's and a tree falling.
• The next 5 seconds are once again actual direct combat and lightsaber attacks
• The final 5 seconds are Shan being pushed then leaping out of Malgus's attacks until she's disarmed.
In total, there was literally only 15 seconds of direct combat. And in such, Malgus was not injured.
I fail to see how this is even comparable, considering Revan is above Hope Malgus and that Malak lasted "multiple pages" against Revan.
Length of duels are proof of nothing. Some fights are just short, some are exceedingly long. It just happens. By this logic Ahsoka is better than Satele as well considering she lasted a few minutes against GG. Meanwhile Kenobi almost lost to the General in under 1 minute. Ahsoka > Obi-Wan? Malak lasted long because he was able to regenerate multiple times.
Lmao at that "multiple pages" crap. You know, Ven Zallow's fight lasted multiple pages in Deceived and yet he got handled faster or as fast as Satele did in the trailer.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
- - - - -
This is not even mentioning only stalemating damn Mekhis, who a non-Force sensitive beat.
watch?v=xTt8IzilofM&feature=kp
Satele beat Mekhis, wounded her and forced her to flee. And she didn't lose in a straight up fight.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Darth Malak merely regenerated his health twice. Leaving a total of Revan beating him 3 times, not 5.
And you know this how?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan has some pretty nice speed feats actually. 🙂 You even admitted to such.
Revan Reborn does, perhaps. SF Revan does not, nor is there proof that Malak was as fast as him. He wouldn't need to be to put up a fight.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Don't you ****ing dare. You ignore nexus' more often then PT is banned.
Sure, but in this case the amp is confirmed. Even I can't ignore that.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
1. He was on a nexus, something Bane, Kun, and Vitiate did in nearly every combat showing.
2. He replenished his health twice throughout the battle when weakened.So...where is the 1000+ advantages coming from? 🙄
Revan had to fight to get to him and Malak had time to prepare for him while Revan dealt with the droids.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
This isn't beyond Malak's capabilities, being an "extraordinary" duelist to the likes that he is superior to Revan with a lightsaber.
Also, those Sith looked godly fodder (much more then the Dark Jedi on the Star Forge). Some of them got their ass kicked by Republic soldiers.
Satele Shan's speed is seemingly no greater then Hope Darth Malgus. I wouldn't put that around Vitiate level, who is fast enough to survive a lightsaber inches away from him.
Being above average in technical skill and having an unconfirmed notion about him being better in lightsabers than Darth Revan, a man who has no real skill feats, are not speed feats.
That's Havoc Squad, the best of the best. You don't look down on Jedi and Sith for losing to Mando's, so why to these guys?
And I wouldn't put Malak on that level either so cool story.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You can't be seriously arguing Malak vs Shan in strength. 😐
Why, because she's a woman? Malak has no strength feats. Malgus does. Satele does. Satele > Malak. Even Aryn Leneer was strong enough to toss a man 40 meters with one arm. She's also stronger than Malak.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The one that was less than 9ish feet high and no bigger then 6 inches thick?
Yes. It's a blast door, so by design it is capable of withstanding powerful explosions. It's size and thickness aren't necessarily representative of its durability. And besides, shattering that amount of metal is still above anything Malak has shown.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Didn't Kenobi do this as well? lol
These are actual super battle droids. Designed to fight Jedi one on one and needing mounted cannons to damage.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
A *Zeltron with heavy Mandalorian gear on. I have rarely ever seen Mandalorians be TK'ed in the first place motions to comics with Jango Fett and Jedi Dooku. They are on the same level though. 😕
Being Mandalorian doesn't increase your weight, so it doesn't make it any more difficult to push one. And it's not in the same level. The amount of force needed to crumple those droids into balls is more than is needed just to push a human that far. Plus Satele did it casually, and Malak was clearly straining.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Still though, choking two Jedi while walking around and chatting with Revan is really badass. And the Jedi would still have some Force powers left in them. It's not like they are dead and completely helpless.
Yes, it is impressive. I'm not suggesting SF Malak sucks. He's just not beating Satele. Kotor Revan isn't so far above her that he can beat her over and over again while suffering on a nexus.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
After a fight that made Revan desperate in combat. 🙄
The fight being called desperate doesn't suggest Revan was desperate.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You mean after 300 years of prolonged draining and torture? I would be embarrassed if she wasn't.
He had more than enough time to recover.
Oh wow, you actually responded! 😛 However, I'm going to wait a little bit to respond. I just emailed Drew on the 10th concerning Darth Malak. Hopefully his response should clear up some issues.
I don't see a reason responding now when one of our arguments can be destroyed/confirmed in several days. Though if he doesn't respond by the 24th (two weeks later), I'll respond back anyway.
