Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I suppose it's a good thing that he has two of the greatest sith lord in history at his side. 😬
Krayt would be an issue for Sidious, in that he'd be annoying to kill whilst staving off Vitiate, but Kun's on another level from Sidious and Vitiate, he's powerful, but would get obliterated.
Originally posted by Selenial
I don't even know what that is 🙁 🙁 🙁But tbh, that'd be interesting to see. Vitiate isn't exactly one for combat, Sidious would just take Kun out of the picture immediately, so it'd be an interesting 2v1
It's a thread where its horribly unbalanced in one sides favor. As if the person made the thread just to have the other side get massacred.
Lol, Sidious isn't one-shotting Kun.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It's a thread where its horribly unbalanced in one sides favor. As if the person made the thread just to have the other side get massacred.Lol, Sidious isn't one-shotting Kun.
Well, he could obliterate Leia, so that's something.
But it's a discussion for another time, back to the thread.
Yup, there were plenty of times during his duel with Yoda that Sidious evinced strain or fear, indicating that Yoda was a significant challenge. Not so much from the Zabraks, who are less challenge and more in the order of absolute fodder.
As you concede, it's reasonable to conclude that distance plays a role in the strength and effectiveness of Force powers. Else Jedi or Sith would be smiting one another across interstellar distances without ever having to confront one another face-to-face.Dooku was already plotting behind Sidious's back with both Ventress and Opress. Your insinuations that the Count is a fetishist with a bent for asphyxiation notwithstanding, I'd say it would be pretty damn hard for anyone (let alone a Sith Lord for whom survival is priority one) to not reflexively try to defend one's self.
But even being generous and granting you the assumption that Dooku didn't defend himself, we're back to square one: why wouldn't he try to defend himself from a man he wants to murder anyway?
The answer is obvious: because Sidious is that much more powerful than he is and Dooku knew it wouldn't end well for him. Either way, we're back to the inescapable fact that Sidious is well beyond the Count and there's nothing you can do to mitigate that truth. 😬
Your contextless excerpt notwithstanding, there are some critical differences between Luke being throttled by the Qrephs and Sidious throttling the Zabraks. First: We know from the passage that Luke was indeed caught off guard; there's no proof that the Zabraks were. Second: Luke had no idea where the Qrephs were and much of his desperate flailing had to do with locating the unseen threat in order to combat it whereas Sidious was standing in their line of sight, visible and known, and the Zabraks were still helpless.
I accept your concession about their spines. But you have no proof that the attack was unexpected. You have no proof that these two particularly durable Force users were damaged or incapacitated by their impact against the glass, particularly when we see them recover quite nicely. You're simply and clumsily cobbling together a series of assumptions in an attempt to undermine Sidious's victory as circumstantial in defiance of authorial commentary that explains Sidious's victory was the result of vastly superior power, skill and expertise. He's better than the brothers, Arhael, together and separate. And by a lot. Filoni has said so exhaustively. Any insinuations to the contrary will be disregarded without comment. It's been a year; if you can't process black-and-white now, you never will.
Equally you have no proof that these two particularly durable Force users as you say weren't damaged by the Force blast. Other characters like Kenobi were shown to get knocked down by Force blast alone. Brothers in comparison were blasted, suffered additional impact against window and were pressed hard against it. There was clear expression of pain on their faces. Yes, they recovered quickly, which is impressive but in no way it means they were undamaged by it. Second similar Force blast from Sidious completely knocked Maul down.
Accuse me of assumptions all you want, you equally assume here but with much more bias. Filoni's statements that they were no match for him does not prove that he could Force handle them at any moment of his choosing. You can't prove it no matter how you interpret things.
And I might be compelled to believe you, if the brothers were indeed known to have been caught off guard. Regardless, your argument topples: if Dooku didn't try to resist Sidious, it was because he knew it wouldn't do him any good because of Sidious's vastly superior power. And as to why "I conveniently ignore" cut content? Because it defies Filoni's commentary and, oh, it's cut content.
If you think otherwise, then both fights of Yoda and Dooku don't make sense. If Yoda - Sidious equal in power by all accounts could safely overpower Dooku with TK, that's exactly what he would do. He already showed it on Ventress, no reason for him not to try it on Dooku. The only logical conclusion is that Dooku would be able to resist.
Sidious is better than these guys, Arhael, and in the words of the Dark
Originally posted by Nephthys
Leia is comparable to Exar Kun now?Also I recall her judo-slamming him through a coffee table, lol.
She had the force potential of Luke, according to a master who's name I can't remember (will check)
But yeh, she's hella powerful. She stopped Sidious' own essence, was equal to a Spirit Vodo Siosk Baas + 6 Jedi in terms of force strengths MINIMUM (Judging that Luke needed that number to make a wall of light. Luke needed Leia for the same reason, but theirs was way bigger)
She's impressive.
Maybe not Kun, but it's close, and that's the point, no?
Originally posted by Arhael
That's absurd. Lightsaber is far more lethal than TK. TK is far safer way to knock down opponents without killing.
Yoda could have annihilated Dooku with the force, Dooku explains that in Dark rendezvous and hints at it in multiple sources.
Yoda just wanted to redeem him, which he would have if not for Anakin/Obi Wan.
Originally posted by Selenial
She had the force potential of Luke, according to a master who's name I can't remember (will check)But yeh, she's hella powerful. She stopped Sidious' own essence, was equal to a Spirit Vodo Siosk Baas + 6 Jedi in terms of force strengths MINIMUM (Judging that Luke needed that number to make a wall of light. Luke needed Leia for the same reason, but theirs was way bigger)
She's impressive.
Maybe not Kun, but it's close, and that's the point, no?
😐
Seriously? Leia has like, no training at all at this point. Even though she has power, she can't effectively use it. Sidious pwning her would be like him pwning TPM Anakin.
Later on even with training she had a tough fight with Alema Rar and got beat up by an Ewok. She isn't even in the same ballpark in the same county as Exar Kun,
I never said she was Kun's equal.
But she had the power to hold off Palpatine without any training. Held the Milenium Falcon together, which was supposedly incredibly difficult.
Mind tricked a fully fledged Jedi Knight into dropping her saber,
Dueled Boldarion or whatever his ridiculous name was without any proper training.
She never took the Jedi path like Luke did but it was clear she had the potential to be his equal.
Arhael
Fear, yes. Strain? Where? He is laughing and smiling whole time, except when dodged platform and at the end of final contest. Again, at which point you saw strain on his face? All, I could see is his permanent wrinkles.
During his lightsaber duel with Yoda on the Chancellor's podium and the final lightning assault on the Senate pod, Sidious can be seen straining or grunting with exertion. No such expression on his face with the brothers. The difference is that Yoda is a challenge and a half whereas the Zabraks barely qualified as light exercise.
And be careful when making remarks about His Imperial Majesty's complexion, plebe. uhuh
Arhael
Dooku is not stupid. He knows that he is below Sidious. Had he counterattacked Sidious, inevitable hunt down would follow.
👆
Bingo. Dooku knew that resistance was futile.
Arhael
And there is critical difference that maintains my point that you missed out. Zabraks are not Luke skywalker. Majority of characters are helpless, when choked or electrocuted. It is consistently observed throughout series.
Anakin and Kenobi couldn't break Ventress' Force choke, despite the fact that she is below both of them, only ship reverberation saved them.
Yet, later Ventress couldn't break out of Anakin's Force choke.
Dooku was able to Force choke Anakin, Ventress and Kenobi. Yet, was unable to break free from Opress' choke, despite the fact that Opress' attention was split on choking Ventress as well.
When Sidious caught Dooku with Force choke, it could as well mean that Dooku wouldn't be able to break free like he couldn't break free from amateur Opress.
And if Opress throttled Dooku as effortlessly as did Sidious and from a similar interstellar distance, I'd also put Opress above Dooku. But we know from narration and other feats that the Count is Opress's superior by a notable margin and that Ventress and Opress together weren't good enough to take Dooku down. There's plenty of reason to conclude that Opress couldn't duplicate that feat in your average fight. Sidious, on the other hand, has no such consideration working against him. There's nothing to say that he's not capable of humiliating Dooku whenever he wants, which is probably why Dooku is looking for an ally in taking Sidious out rather than trying to do the job himself. He knows he doesn't stand a chance.
Arhael
Equally you have no proof that attack was expected. In particular we can see that Sidious turns away and Maul looks at him with confused face: "Master?"
You mean his feigned confusion over the fact that Sidious wasn't falling for his BS?
Arhael
Equally you have no proof that these two particularly durable Force users as you say weren't damaged by the Force blast. Other characters like Kenobi were shown to get knocked down by Force blast alone. Brothers in comparison were blasted, suffered additional impact against window and were pressed hard against it. There was clear expression of pain on their faces. Yes, they recovered quickly, which is impressive but in no way it means they were undamaged by it. Second similar Force blast from Sidious completely knocked Maul down.
Translation: "Yeah, I know the brothers didn't show any signs of injury and recovered well enough seconds later, but they were totes really really hurt by it and were prolly paraplegic and they mos def qualified for Dathomirian Disability after that i sure hope Talzin had them insured!!1!"
Not buying it, Arhael. And yeah, I'd say being torpedoed into concrete and then flung to the ground would probably hurt a bit more than being shoved against a window. 😬
Arhael
Accuse me of assumptions all you want, you equally assume here but with much more bias. Filoni's statements that they were no match for him does not prove that he could Force handle them at any moment of his choosing. You can't prove it no matter how you interpret things.
In Filoni's own words, these guys together pretty much couldn't even touch him. He's not just better, bro. He's leagues better. The martial difference between Sidious and the brothers is more or less the martial difference between Thor and Stephen Hawking, except the Zabraks don't get the spiffy chair. 😬
Arhael
As you confirm, Dooku knew it wouldn't do him any good, thus didn't try. Reluctance of Dooku does not prove that Sidious can Force handle him during fight any moment he wants.If you think otherwise, then both fights of Yoda and Dooku don't make sense. If Yoda - Sidious equal in power by all accounts could safely overpower Dooku with TK, that's exactly what he would do. He already showed it on Ventress, no reason for him not to try it on Dooku. The only logical conclusion is that Dooku would be able to resist.
?
Who's comparing Dooku to season 1 Ventress? No one. Dooku is in a whole 'nother league. But yeah, I'm sure if Yoda got pissed and wanted to Force choke Dooku, he'd do just fine. But that's not a textbook Jedi tactic, is it?
Arhael
That has absolutely nothing to do with my argument. It's not about whether he is better than them, he is undeniably better. However, you have no proof to claim that he can simply dispose of either of them during fight with Force like "fodder" as you say. There is no way 3 against 1, where one character could fight Yoda without being Force handle is waaayy too much.
Nah. The Zabraks are nothing but a mild annoyance to Sidious at their very, very best. All he need do is fling Dooku aside for the three seconds it would take to grind them into talcum powder. Then he smites Dooku with impunity.
Originally posted by Selenial
I never said she was Kun's equal.But she had the power to hold off Palpatine without any training. Held the Milenium Falcon together, which was supposedly incredibly difficult.
Mind tricked a fully fledged Jedi Knight into dropping her saber,
Dueled Boldarion or whatever his ridiculous name was without any proper training.She never took the Jedi path like Luke did but it was clear she had the potential to be his equal.
And I never accused you of saying that. But you said they were comparable. They aren't.
When did she hold off Palpatine? Wouldn't that directly contradict your own point about him being far above her? And she held together the Falcon in 40 ABY, not when Palpatine was alive. Same with the mind trick feat.
Leia had power, but at the time she met Sidious she still had minimal training and control of the Force.
Originally posted by Selenial
Krayt would be an issue for Sidious, in that he'd be annoying to kill whilst staving off Vitiate, but Kun's on another level from Sidious and Vitiate, he's powerful, but would get obliterated.
Not really. None of them really have any feats to indicate that they can even see him let alone not get blitzed. Maybe Krayt, but that's just personal opinion.