ROTS Sidious Runs the Gauntlet

Started by Robtard3 pages

Originally posted by Kotor3
Agreed. So, if it is a kill situation you feel it would go in the favor of Wolverine?

I don't.

How would Sidious kill Wolverine?

Depends on whether you think Adamantium is completely resistant to a lightsaber.

Let's say it's not.

Fry him with force lightning, or force TK him around like a rubber ball, both are solid options for KOing Wolverine. In return, Wolverine would not have much of a chance to beat Sidious up close, which is the only manner Wolverine can attack.

Originally posted by Robtard
How would Sidious kill Wolverine?

When you can tell me how Wolverine would be able to kill someone who moves as fast, is as skill, and can attack near and far, like Sidious, I will answer your question.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Agreed. So, if it is a kill situation you feel it would go in the favor of Wolverine?

I don't.

Not really. It's more a situation of me not being able to see him killing Wolverine, unless we assume a saber can cut through adamantium. So it'd just be the whole day of Sidious throwing Wolverine around like a rag doll via force TK, able to KO but not kill him. But if we do assume his saber can cut through adamantium, he can decap Wolverine.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Magneto is another one. Powerful he is but I see no defense that he would have from being force choked.

Well, he can't really stop Sidious from choking him. But he can still use his powers while being choked. Which still allows him a lot of options to fight back. Main difference here between Wolverine and Magneto is that Wolverine is a melee, street-level brawler. Magneto is a mutant powerhouse with a lot of range and control. For example, Magneto could still grab Sidious' saber and attack him with it. Or any metal from the surrounding area. Can Sidious maintain a force choke while defending against a barrage of metal shrapnel?

Sidious can easily force choke Wolverine. Death by asphyxiation.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Sidious can easily force choke Wolverine. Death by asphyxiation.

Magneto poked him full of metal bars and dropped him in a lake, in which he spent several minutes. He woke up seconds after they took him out again. So it will at best KO him, not kill him.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Magneto poked him full of metal bars and dropped him in a lake, in which he spent several minutes. He woke up seconds after they took him out again. So it will at best KO him, not kill him.
So Wolverine cannot be asphyxiated, not by any means?

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
So Wolverine cannot be asphyxiated, not by any means?

Well, considering his lungs would have been filled with water, rendering him utterly unable to breath for several minutes, and he survived that just fine, I don't see how force choke will be any different. Cutting off someone's oxygen supply is cutting off someone's oxygen supply. The techniques to do it might vary, but the effect and end results are the same. Only way to kill him would be a decap, assuming the saber can cut through adamantium.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, considering his lungs would have been filled with water, rendering him utterly unable to breath for several minutes, and he survived that just fine, I don't see how force choke will be any different. Cutting off someone's oxygen supply is cutting off someone's oxygen supply. The techniques to do it might vary, but the effect and end results are the same. Only way to kill him would be a decap, assuming the saber can cut through adamantium.

Ah, the age old argument, adamantium versus lightsaber. My theory is that adamantium will withstand a few blows from a lightsaber, but after a dozen or so, the adamantium will weaken and give way.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Ah, the age old argument, adamantium versus lightsaber. My theory is that adamantium will withstand a few blows from a lightsaber, but after a dozen or so, the adamantium will weaken and give way.

Yeah, not really sure. For the purposes of this fight, I am just going to assume a lightsaber can cut through adamantium with enough blows. Otherwise, there would be no point to pitting them in a death match. We do know, from The Wolverine, that superheated adamantium can cut through normal adamantium with little problem. Either way, Wolverine isn't actually winning this fight, as there is nothing he can do to Sidious unless Sidious allows it.

Only people on this list I see giving him trouble or possibly beating him are Magneto, Thor or Spidey. None of the people listed who lack ranged attacks stand a chance.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
We do know, from The Wolverine, that superheated adamantium can cut through normal adamantium with little problem.

Even normal, unheated Adamantium can cut Adamantium.

Originally posted by Placidity
Even normal, unheated Adamantium can cut Adamantium.

One adamantium object cutting through another has always seemed stupid to me. But that is irrelevant here in anyways, as Sidious doesn't have any on hand. I raised the point about the super heating because a lightsaber can in fact generate a shit ton of heat once it comes into contact with a solid surface. So I don't think it will cut right through by any means, but there might be case for it slowly melting through adamantium or weakening it, from repeated saber blows, or pressing the saber against it for an extended period of time.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Not really. It's more a situation of me not being able to see him killing Wolverine, unless we assume a saber can cut through adamantium. So it'd just be the whole day of Sidious throwing Wolverine around like a rag doll via force TK, able to KO but not kill him. But if we do assume his saber can cut through adamantium, he can decap Wolverine.

I see no reason to assume that a saber cannot cut through Adamantium. It most likely wouldn’t happen from one hit but multiple yes.

Obi-Wan was able to fight General Grievous and handle his abnormal speed. Sidious is much faster and more powerful than Obi-Wan. Since Wolverine has shown no ability to dodge attacks in the movies, I see Sidious striking him probably a hundred times in a minute. That would be a decapitation of Wolverine.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, he can't really stop Sidious from choking him. But he can still use his powers while being choked. Which still allows him a lot of options to fight back. Main difference here between Wolverine and Magneto is that Wolverine is a melee, street-level brawler. Magneto is a mutant powerhouse with a lot of range and control. For example, Magneto could still grab Sidious' saber and attack him with it. Or any metal from the surrounding area. Can Sidious maintain a force choke while defending against a barrage of metal shrapnel?

How long does it take for a force choke to kill someone? I have never seen it take more than a few secs. Sidious has abnormal speed as shown in ROTS. Sidious we also know is more powerful than Vader. In ESB Vader was choking people from across space while talking. When fighting Luke he was able to move objects without the use of his hands or pointing to the objects while fighting. Vader was taught by Sidious.

So yes, I see Sidious be able to dodge attacks with his speed while maintaining a choke hold on Magento until he is KO or dies.

Are lightsabers powerful enough to cut adamantium? IIRC Qui Gon and Obi Wan were struggling to cut open a metal door in TPM.

Here is the link to the scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OTHjSG61SI

Please tell me where the struggle was? They had to add to close two more doors to fortify themselves since the saber was cutting through the first one like nothing. And was still cutting through the second and third doors.

That was only in a few seconds before the destroyers showed up to distract the Jedi.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, not really sure. For the purposes of this fight, I am just going to assume a lightsaber can cut through adamantium with enough blows. Otherwise, there would be no point to pitting them in a death match. We do know, from The Wolverine, that superheated adamantium can cut through normal adamantium with little problem. Either way, Wolverine isn't actually winning this fight, as there is nothing he can do to Sidious unless Sidious allows it.

Only people on this list I see giving him trouble or [B]possibly beating him are Magneto, Thor or Spidey. None of the people listed who lack ranged attacks stand a chance. [/B]

Just a theory.

Originally posted by Kotor3

How long does it take for a force choke to kill someone? I have never seen it take more than a few secs. Sidious has abnormal speed as shown in ROTS. Sidious we also know is more powerful than Vader. In ESB Vader was choking people from across space while talking. When fighting Luke he was able to move objects without the use of his hands or pointing to the objects while fighting. Vader was taught by Sidious.

So yes, I see Sidious be able to dodge attacks with his speed while maintaining a choke hold on Magento until he is KO or dies.

Well, Anakin had Padme in a force choke for about 10 seconds and she survived. During the "I find your lack of faith disturbing" scene he chokes a guy for 15 seconds and he survives. When he chokes that guy over the monitor the guy dies, but it takes 17 seconds, and you hear and audible crack at the end, which suggests more than simple asphyxiation. And the key thing is, all these people were helpless and had no way whatsoever of fighting back. Magneto does.

And as to Sidious simply dodging everything while also maintaining a force choke, this is where you and I disagree. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest a force user can maintain a force choke for several seconds, while dodging multiple projectiles coming from various directions. And let's say he can dodge things coming directly at him, it won't help Sidious if Magneto creates a shrapnel storm around him. Dodging one piece of metal doesn't help when it puts you in the path of five others. And once a piece of metal gets under Sidious' skin, he is going to be in trouble.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, Anakin had Padme in a force choke for about 10 seconds and she survived. During the "I find your lack of faith disturbing" scene he chokes a guy for 15 seconds and he survives. When he chokes that guy over the monitor the guy dies, but it takes 17 seconds, and you hear and audible crack at the end, which suggests more than simple asphyxiation. And the key thing is, all these people were helpless and had no way whatsoever of fighting back. Magneto does.

Your examples still support my statement of a few seconds. Now, Anakin did not want to kill Padme neither was he trying to. So I wouldn’t say that is a good example. Neither am I going to look up those scenes and count the secs. I will take your word for it.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And as to Sidious simply dodging everything while also maintaining a force choke, this is where you and I disagree. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest a force user can maintain a force choke for several seconds, while dodging multiple projectiles coming from various directions. And let's say he can dodge things coming directly at him, it won't help Sidious if Magneto creates a shrapnel storm around him. Dodging one piece of metal doesn't help when it puts you in the path of five others. And once a piece of metal gets under Sidious' skin, he is going to be in trouble.

Your whole argument of Magneto moving objects at Sidious on pin point target is based on a scene where the metal was already on top of Magneto and the beast and all he did was make it come down and restrain the beast. A more accurate scene to support your argument would be to show me one where Magneto is restrained and moving objects at enemies who are not right on top of him.

I gave you the example in ESB where Vader move objects while fight Luke. He was attacking with his saber while objects were flying at Luke.

If Sidious can maintain the choke then the match is over he is too fast to be hit by flying metal. So lets say he cannot maintain the hold for the sake of the battle. Magneto only advantage would be to do aerial attacks.

Sidious, is too fast for Magneto. Sidious could attack Magento from any direction or location with TK or force lighting. He also can send non-metal objects at Magneto that would force Magento to go on the defensive. Magento only chance is to hope there is enough metal around to throw at Sidious.

I really see nothing that would make Magneto survive in a one on one battle with Sidious.