Selene/Spiderman vs Darth Vader/Darth Maul

Originally posted by Placidity
[B]Not the ones that Jedi are shown to block. You can say its the same weapon, but bolt speed is measurably different - onscreen.

"it looked slow on TV so it must be slow"

Well if you want to go with peak human Agent Smith and Neo because we don't see super flashy camera effects during their fights despite consistently bullet timing, or say Bleach is the fastest fictional verse ever because you can't see them or any backgrounds on panel when they're fighting then, sure. We'll do that

Long distance speed feats determine the speed of a character/projectile basically

I'm basing this on movie feats only.

Me too

Force speed depends on how you play it. They have never shown using it in a fight. Well actually, they never used it period after that one time in TPM. Sure would've been handy to use that ability later - why didn't they use it?

So Sidious vs Palpatine in the novelisation of ROTS don't count then?

Also the "hurr durr can't do it in combat" excuse kinda died out as a copout excuse years ago

Or should have at least. Apparently not

Again, long distance feats determine speed of characters

Originally posted by StealthRanger
"it looked slow on TV so it must be slow"

Exactly. I base it on what I observe. I'm sure you have other methods, like base it on your feelings, or on what you'd like to believe.

Originally posted by StealthRanger

Long distance speed feats determine the speed of a character/projectile basically

Again, long distance feats determine speed of characters

You make a lot of assertions. They don't mean anything. You need to realize this when you debate other people.

Originally posted by StealthRanger

Also the "hurr durr can't do it in combat" excuse kinda died out as a copout excuse years ago

I don't know about that. But I do know SW fanboy idiocy lives on.

Originally posted by Placidity
Well rolling over a few times and skidding is more accurate. But nonetheless doesn't take away from the feat, still impressive.

Originally posted by Placidity

I once made your helicopter argument, it was countered by DDM, who had some good points. Basically he said it actually doesn't take that much force to pull it down if its just hovering. I didn't completely buy it but I generally exclude that feat from my estimations for now.

Michael, while jumping down and holding the same rope Marcus pulled, didn't budge the copter. Or even come close to doing that. Yet Marcus just tugged on it once and brought it crashing down.

Marcus also lifted the large stone door when he was locked out from William's crypt's chambers.

Originally posted by Epicurus

I don't care

Cool story.

Originally posted by Epicurus

He has claimed that Twilight vampires can exert million tonne-force simply based on one pushing down a f*cking tree.

All that means is that he can be wrong. That is true of everyone.

Originally posted by Epicurus

Marcus also lifted the large stone door when he was locked out from William's crypt's chambers.

Yes King has mentioned this. I agree its Marcus' best and high end feat. At least 10 tons in my opinion.

Originally posted by Placidity
Exactly. I base it on what I observe. I'm sure you have other methods, like base it on your feelings, or on what you'd like to believe.

Cool. Because I loved peak human level Matrix characters too

Because lets ignore bolts travelling many km in seconds over being able to see it on screen :distracted

You make a lot of assertions. They don't mean anything. You need to realize this when you debate other people.

Not sure about house standards here, though it's practically how debates work. Stops people from nitpicking low end feats (or what could be percieved as such) out of the blue

Again, textbook definition of this where Matrix agents appear peak human in fights despite bullet timing feats

Or subsonic MGS railguns because we saw it take a few seconds to cross hundreds of meters

To take this logic in DBZ, Goku vs Cell appeared faster than Gohan vs Buutenks, yet none of us would claim Cell and CS Goku are faster than Buutenks and BS Gohan because by feats, powerscaling and statements they're clearly superior

That and Buu Saga characters are far more powerful than Cell Saga characters, ofc

I don't know about that. But I do know SW fanboy idiocy lives on.

Funny that, the SW downplayer tends to live far longer

>SW vs x char from x franchise debate
>SW character (and others on a similar level inverse) has feats on x level several times throughout the series
>if it didn't happen that way in every fight it doesn't count in vs debates

>any other character (and characters throughout his/her franchise) has a feat of x level same amount of times throughout their respective series as would be in SW
>it's perfectly acceptable and usable in any vs debate even though it didn't happen every time in their series

Seems to be the usual course of SW debates when it isn't an EU debate know what I'm sayin' yo?

Originally posted by Placidity
Cool story.

All that means is that he can be wrong. That is true of everyone.

Yes King has mentioned this. I agree its Marcus' best and high end feat. At least 10 tons in my opinion.

Got it. 👆

Originally posted by Epicurus
IOW, you agree that Selene(who is = Marcus) is at the very least every bit as strong as Spider-Man.

Got it. 👆

Actually I said Spider-man is stronger. But I remember who you are now, and everything makes sense.

Originally posted by StealthRanger

Not sure about house standards here, though it's practically how debates work. Stops people from nitpicking low end feats (or what could be percieved as such) out of the blue

Do you even know what low end feats mean? Six movies, many dozens of fights. One short non-combat superspeed scene. So that one moment is the standard, and everything else is "low end". Thats nice. It's like you intentionally take everything that is logical and assert the opposite.

Originally posted by StealthRanger

To take this logic in DBZ, Goku vs Cell appeared faster than Gohan vs Buutenks, yet none of us would claim Cell and CS Goku are faster than Buutenks and BS Gohan because by feats, powerscaling and statements they're clearly superior

That and Buu Saga characters are far more powerful than Cell Saga characters, ofc

Well Gohan and Buu are capable of being faster, but they did not display/use it (for the most part).

The only reason we know they are faster is because of the other factors that you mentioned.

The Sith have no such other factors to rely on - unless you go into EU.

Originally posted by StealthRanger

>if it didn't happen that way in every fight it doesn't count in vs debates

>any other character (and characters throughout his/her franchise) has a feat of x level same amount of times throughout their respective series as would be in SW
>it's perfectly acceptable and usable in any vs debate even though it didn't happen every time in their series

Seems to be the usual course of SW debates when it isn't an EU debate know what I'm sayin' yo?

When has a Jedi/Sith EVER (even once) displayed superspeed in a fight?

If what you said is true, why are you complaining about others using the same dodgy tactics that you are trying to pull here? That makes you a hypocrite. You can't have it both ways. Your only defense is "well other people are doing it too!".

I am quite consistent with my standards. For example, a post I made today discounting that Wade Wilson (Note - a Marvel character) has superspeed:

Originally posted by Placidity
That moment although significant is all that you have to hang on to make a case for superspeed. Every other scene in the movie, he does not display any super speed at all.

Also he was clearly blocking bullets even without superspeed before that moment. Therefore, real world physics does not necessarily apply to that one slow motion scene either.

If you pause the video at the right places in the earlier part of that scene when he WASN'T filmed in slow motion, you can still see the bullets he is deflecting. The movie bullet is clearly slower than a real bullet.

Basically, a case can be made for superspeed, but it takes some inclination and self-convincing.

Originally posted by Placidity
Do you even know what low end feats mean? Six movies, many dozens of fights. One short non-combat superspeed scene. So that one moment is the standard, and everything else is "low end". Thats nice. It's like you intentionally take everything that is logical and assert the opposite.

Why yes I know what they mean

High end showing are definitive of a character's ability in vs debates

By low end I mean, we have various instances of blaster bolts travelling many km in second, yet for some reason you nitpick "but we saw tem move on TV wen Jedi got shot", but at least you haven't tried the "we see slow blaster bolts far more often then we do fast ones", yet

Technically it's cherry picking feats either way. One is just more frowned upon

Spoiler:
Hint: It's not my way of doing it, mate

Well Gohan and Buu are capable of being faster, but they did not display/use it (for the most part).

The only reason we know they are faster is because of the other factors that you mentioned.

Good job at missing the point

Stylistic protrayal is not<by feats/logical powerscaling

Gohan vs Buu being a good example. Just because they're fight didn't appear faster, didn't mean they were moving slower

When has a Jedi/Sith EVER (even once) displayed superspeed in a fight?

Well, Obi-Wan keeping up with Grievous' attacks (should I bring out relativistic reactions starfighter and MagnaGuard droids now?) or Windu vs Palpatine where they were performing DBZ/Wesker esque-shit against Anakin (moving and fighting so fast he can't see them both) (both novelisation feats, probably others I'm missing out on, and here's me awaiting the "waaah if they're x level why doesn't the setting go the way I think it should!" gem)

Regardless, we don't disregard Matrix characters fights because they didn't look fast, so why the same for Star Wars?

If what you said is true, why are you complaining about others using the same dodgy tactics that you are trying to pull here? That makes you a hypocrite. You can't have it both ways. Your only defense is "well other people are doing it too!".

Not complaining, just pointing out house standards for such things (if those are KMC ones idk, after all, some people try to pull the combat speed fallacy on MoS Superman) and that if you want to nitpick every tiny showing we'd get shit like city block level Thor and small mountain level DBZ characters

Or you're just a downplayer in any case

I am quite consistent with my standards. For example, a post I made today discounting that Wade Wilson (Note - a Marvel character) has superspeed:

Okay, so you're a downplayer in general then? (bullets in the movie not moving as fast as real ones :lmao)

Good to know

Originally posted by Placidity
Actually I said Spider-man is stronger. But I remember who you are now, and everything makes sense.

Originally posted by Placidity
Sith have no answer to bullets.

LOL.

Selene and spidey win

Based on?

Originally posted by The Manga Guru
Selene and spidey win

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Based on?

All I know is... I can see blaster bolts on screen whereas I can't see bullets fired on screen (unless they're slow motion).

Anyway, Selene's super speed and Spider sense counteract the Sith's precog, force choke can work but I have yet to see it used on anyone as durable as Selene and I haven't seen it used on a dodging, moving opponent like I assume Spiderman would be.

Selene/Spiderman for the win.

Lol no. Selene gets force lifted off the ground and decapped. Spidey gets Force lifted off the ground and decapped.

Sith rape.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Lol no. Selene gets force lifted off the ground and decapped. Spidey gets Force lifted off the ground and decapped.

Sith rape.

Spidelene rape.

Originally posted by The Manga Guru
being faster and stronger. Selene has faster weapons.

Why are they faster?

Please don't do that "blaster bolts are slow because we can see them move" thing /eyeroll

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Spidey alone is faster than them by a mile. He attaches a web to their head and pulls it off in an instant.

Spidelene rape.

Lol, no. Precog, dude.