Originally posted by Unbowed
What do you mean? As far as I know Nihilus is not referenced in the Book of Sith.
It's explained in there that using a ritual amps your powers to levels far higher than they could ever reach without it, that you could do in a ritual what you could never even dream of doing with your own power.
I am honestly shocked that this debate is still going on, but whatever. Ignoring the Nihilus comparisons, here are a few things:
1) The purpose of the ritual was not to create a dark side nexus, but to help Vitiate achieve corporeal immortality, as you have mentioned a number of times.
2) The darkside nexus was created as a result of the ritual. Again, I thought this had been decided, by now.
3) The desolation of the planet was a byproduct of the ritual and not something Vitiate actively did. You can't tap into that much darkside energy and expect some kind of massive fallout.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Based on what you revealed, I find The Ones to be a match for Emperor, better in some aspects as well. But this is not the appropriate thread for this debate.
You're right, this isn't the appropriate thread, but since you made the statement, I'm going to answer it. Vitiate is powerful, very powerful. He is easily in the top 3 Sith of all time, but the Ones are in a higher tier than anyone else. That's just how it is.
And btw, regarding your "dismissal" of Ant, I read what he posted and at no point was he insulting, rude, or condescending. He simply asked you to stop pushing the Nathema ritual discussion in that particular thread, because the argument was becoming circular and nothing was being achieved from it. He even pointed out that he accepted the fact you wouldn't change your mind, based on the information we provided, but other posters were complaining to him about it. At no point did he ban you from the thread, insult you, or even dismiss your opinion as irrelevant. In fact, he suggested you continue the discussion in a different thread, something you've suggested if a thread has gone off topic.
Instead, you make a point to publicly criticize him in your thread, something I personally felt was unneeded and unwarranted, culminating in you ignoring him. What you do is your business, but in the past, you've called other posters children, which implies you've been acting like the adult of the debate. Perhaps, on this, you should act like an adult and just let it go?
*Oh, and LeGenD, this isn't an attack on you, just some constructive criticism.*
LeGend, you continue to push with making Vitiate out to be a highly strong individual which I admire and respect you for doing that and trying very hard to do what you can to make a Vitiate a powerful being, however most of the Forum has already acknowledged Vitiate's power and most place him in the top 5 In their list. I admire your determination and perseverance. However at times you tend to over exaggerate some of the feats and ignore what most users, like Nephthys, Selenial, DarthAnt, freshestslice and many more. You recognize things that only help you in your quest for making Vitiate the strongest sith lord ever and ignore what is canon and makes him look bad, something that should never be ignored in a debate/
And at times, you effectively make Vitiate seem all the more overrated. No offense, but do try open up your mind and not be as - I mean no offense by this, Narrow minded as you tend to be. There are things that make a lot of characters looks bad, most of which include our favorites. There is no shame in admitting/ Acknowledging them. And Do try to refrain from insults, they're not the best way to get your opinion across, trust me I should know. just some friendly advice.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
I am honestly shocked that this debate is still going on, but whatever.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
1) The purpose of the ritual was not to create a dark side nexus, but to help Vitiate achieve corporeal immortality, as you have mentioned a number of times.
You may check this:
"He invited them to participate in a ritual to unlock the full potential of the dark side; he promised they would unleash power beyond anything they had ever witnessed or imagined."
"Didn't they suspect a trap?"
"Perhaps." Nyriss shrugged. "Some refused to answer his call. But many more came. After all, what could one man do against a hundred Sith Lords? Remember, he was not the Emperor back then. He was merely Lord Vitiate, ruler of a single planet of no particular importance. He hadn't fought in any battles of note or achieved any great victories or conquests beyond his homeworld. He had the reputation of a scholar, not a warrior. And the Sith Lords were driven by fear. Many thought the Jedi would soon wipe them all out. They were desperate for anything they could use as a weapon against the servants of the light side. Lord Vitiate played upon these fears, convincing those who answered his call to set aside their suspicions of him and of one another to join in a single glorious cause." (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)
As you may notice, the purpose of the ritual was to achieve something that could be used against the Jedi or so the visiting Sith Lords were led to believe. It is no where stated that they performed the ritual to grant Emperor Vitiate corporeal immortality (only), they would like to benefit from it as well. Interestingly, some suspected that this was nonsense or a trap and did not participate, 8000 didn't.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
2) The darkside nexus was created as a result of the ritual. Again, I thought this had been decided, by now.
The ritual led to creation of the largest nexus of the dark side ever, so it is possible that this was the objective or part of the objective. Keep in mind that Force-users decide what they intend to perform and achieve with a ritual. There is not a single example which suggests that performing a ritual leads to creation of a nexus of the dark side or light side as a byproduct like it happened in the Nathema event. The participants most likely willingly created the largest nexus of the dark side ever during this ritual.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
3) The desolation of the planet was a byproduct of the ritual and not something Vitiate actively did. You can't tap into that much darkside energy and expect some kind of massive fallout.
No where it has been stated that the participating Sith Lords intended to drain each other to death or that they wanted to fuel the power of Emperor Vitiate (only). If this was the case, telepathic subjugation would not have been performed by Emperor Vitiate initially before pulling the Force Drain card.
If we are to assume that participating Sith Lords willingly allowed Emperor Vitiate to fuel his power by draining them, then should we also assume that they were all willing to die for the greater glory of Emperor Vitiate, really? This is really stupid assumption. Sith Lords are not suicidal and neither 8000 would gather somewhere to commit suicide so that one individual would benefit from it.
Think.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
You're right, this isn't the appropriate thread, but since you made the statement, I'm going to answer it. Vitiate is powerful, very powerful. He is easily in the top 3 Sith of all time, but the Ones are in a higher tier than anyone else. That's just how it is.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
And btw, regarding your "dismissal" of Ant, I read what he posted and at no point was he insulting, rude, or condescending. He simply asked you to stop pushing the Nathema ritual discussion in that particular thread, because the argument was becoming circular and nothing was being achieved from it. He even pointed out that he accepted the fact you wouldn't change your mind, based on the information we provided, but other posters were complaining to him about it. At no point did he ban you from the thread, insult you, or even dismiss your opinion as irrelevant. In fact, he suggested you continue the discussion in a different thread, something you've suggested if a thread has gone off topic.
When you announce something, you do not single someone out for ridicule and impose restrictions on him among all in a "debating" forum with exception to trolls. This sends the wrong signal to the singled-out person. You make an announcement impartially like "Alright people, shift the discussion of Nathema to a different thread and reach an understanding on this matter over there. Once that happens, provide me details." When Moderators make an announcement, they do it impartially and for everybody. They do not make a habit of singling people out, unless they are not good Moderators. This is a matter of common sense. Even if his intentions were good, he handled the matter very poorly.
You know? He have been among those members whom I have personally respected. It is not like that I had something personal against him. He made the matter personal in his own thread and I also believe that others are to share the blame for motivating him to target me.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
Instead, you make a point to publicly criticize him in your thread, something I personally felt was unneeded and unwarranted, culminating in you ignoring him. What you do is your business, but in the past, you've called other posters children, which implies you've been acting like the adult of the debate. Perhaps, on this, you should act like an adult and just let it go?*Oh, and LeGenD, this isn't an attack on you, just some constructive criticism.*
That thread involved Sith Emperor, his actions and accomplishments would be expected to be discussed. He didn't like this, some others didn't like either. He should have just pointed out to be me to discuss Nathema event separately so that a meaningful understanding could be achieved from it in another thread. But he singled me out from others for insulting matter (even though some insulted me outright) and restricted my right to have a debate on that thread.When you announce something, you do not single someone out for ridicule and impose restrictions on him among all in a "debating" forum with exception to trolls. This sends the wrong signal to the singled-out person. You make an announcement impartially like "Alright people, shift the discussion of Nathema to a different thread and reach an understanding on this matter over there. Once that happens, provide me details." When Moderators make an announcement, they do it impartially and for everybody. They do not make a habit of singling people out, unless they are not good Moderators. This is a matter of common sense. Even if his intentions were good, he handled the matter very poorly.
You know? He have been among those members whom I have personally respected. It is not like that I had something personal against him. He made the matter personal in his own thread and I also believe that others are to share the blame for motivating him to target me.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is a matter of interpretation.
Not really. Vitiate promised them power to use against the jedi but he cared only for immortality so he deceived them and while the official goal of the ritual was to create a great dark side energy, the real purpose of Vitiate was to consume them and reach immortality.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I have seen nothing that suggests that Vitiate can wield drain to great extent in combat.
True. I think he is capable of it but his combat drain probably isn't as strong as his other feats so he doesn't even bother using it. Nihilus' combat drain seems superior to Vitiate's by a margin.
Just going to leave this here:
The Ritual of Nathema: many incorrectly assume that this particular ritual gave the Sith Emperor the combined strength of 8,000 Sith Lords that he could dispense at will. This is not the case. Given that if that was the case the Sith Emperor would have been able to utterly obliterate Revan with his sight alone. In actual fact the majority of these energies were most likely expended in the performance of the ritual itself. Clearly the Sith Emperor did not have the power to perform it alone, and Force drain was noted in Darth Bane to demand copious amounts of Force energy. And while the act replenished and added to the Force reserves of the wielder, it failed to make up for the power expended.Given that the ritual performed by the Emperor was effectively Force drain on a planetary scale the same mechanics apply. However in this case the Sith Emperor was capable of increasing his power by covering the ‘costs’ if you will by expending the power of the enslaved Sith Lords rather than his own, and as such his powers increased, however the strength of those Sith Lords was expended nonetheless. This likelihood is further reinforced by the fact that in order to perform the ritual again the Emperor required mass genocide. Effectively he needed another ‘sacrifice’ to produce the same if not more Force energy than before that he could use to enact the ritual.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISQg6yzWJ2s
@DarthAnt66Your attitude was shocking in the referred thread, you are among those members that I have personally respected in this forum. You accused me of insulting others in 'every' post during the discussion in the referenced thread which is simply not true, others have explicitly insulted me as well but you didn't warn them. You singled me out in the thread to take away the liberty from me to have a debate in that thread because some members didn't like the points that I raised. My friend, this type of behavior have consequences. Never in my life I have shied away from a debate or ignored any member just because of disagreements, but you have gone a bit too far. I have decided to ignore you at full capacity from no-onwards. What you did is worse then insulting. Whether you apologize or quote me 100 times, you are not going to get any response from me from now onwards. And if you bother me too much, I will put you on ignore and this would be really unfortunate since I do not believe at putting someone on ignore. I am sorry, it is over between us, thanks to actions of some members who motivated you to act against me and your lack of judgment. Let this be a lesson for you, next time you do injustice to someone, think about the consequences of your actions. I can cope with insults but I will not compromise on my rights and dignity.
And if any other member ever tries to repeat the aforementioned mistake, I will have a serious discussion with the entire Administration of KMC about the tendency of fellow members to impose unjustified restrictions on other members in debates in their threads. I understand imposing restrictions on trolling, I understand having rules for topic, but I don't understand imposing restriction on the right to participate in the debate.
...
4. DarthAnt66, don't expect any response from me to you from now onwards.
Good to see this particular alliance of evil has been broken. 😛
You act like people like you here.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You act like people like you here.
lmao