Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Marvel is made to handle the job unbelievers!
Originally posted by Philosophía
ZopZop is like carver saying "I love Superman, hes one of my faves, but I'm going to give this to Black Widow".Captain Marvel/Black Adam haven't been as powerful and versatile for half a century as they currently are.
Either way, this thread is about pre-Flashpoint.
If they're not top tier, then nobody but Superman is top tier.
Shazam characters are now Wonder Woman, if Diana actually had durability, range, and was an actual sorcerer.
Black Adam has magical matter manipulation spells:
Which Billy, as a noob, uses for the lulz:
https://ibb.co/TWvhZ1F
Same thing with technopathy:
https://ibb.co/k0WtyVH
https://ibb.co/F7JVZ2N
Billy just last week one-shot the Wizard Shazam back to the Rock of Eternity and there's nothing he could do about it:
And once they learn all the spells the're capable of, since the Shazam family is just getting used to their powers, they'll have the knowledge to do stuff like this:
...on top of their physical stats.
DC: "Makes them an amalgam of Doctor Strange and Wonder Woman"
Zop: OH noes so weak cry
Originally posted by Philosophía
If they're not top tier, then nobody but Superman is top tier.Shazam characters are now Wonder Woman, if Diana actually had durability, range, and was an actual sorcerer.
Black Adam has magical matter manipulation spells:
Which Billy, as a noob, uses for the lulz:
https://ibb.co/TWvhZ1FSame thing with technopathy:
https://ibb.co/k0WtyVH
https://ibb.co/F7JVZ2NBilly just last week one-shot the Wizard Shazam back to the Rock of Eternity and there's nothing he could do about it:
And once they learn all the spells the're capable of, since the Shazam family is just getting used to their powers, they'll have the knowledge to do stuff like this:
...on top of their physical stats.
DC: "Makes them an amalgam of Doctor Strange and Wonder Woman"
Zop: OH noes so weak cry
Originally posted by zopzopAre you referring to Wonder Woman and Mary's fight in Final Crisis -- the one who was not normal-gods powered Mary Marvel? And why would Mary -- not Billy, not Black Adam -- but Mary, getting punked by Wonder Woman mean that the Shazam family is disrespected -- what the shit? Supergirl gets punked by Wonder Woman regularly -- do you think the Superman family is disrespected, lol?
And yet, Mary gets punked by Wonder Woman and Supergirl (even when amped) and Black Adam can't put down WW H2H.
Wonder Woman and Black Adam have had two fights -- once in Metal when Diana had a plot-device -- Nth metal mace -- which she doesn't normally have, and which allowed her to absorb Black Adam's attacks, and another time, in Doomsday Clock, when Black Adam was beating her and the amazons came before she was gravely injured.
In the meanwhile, go look at Black Adam vs Powergirl [even when helped by JSA -- even when Black Adam is futher depowered]. Then go and look at Wonder Woman vs Power Girl. Black Adam looks a tier above, in essence.
And here's Billy against Wonder Woman:
We're literally not even getting into the fact that there's a shitload of spells which are at their disposal, that can teleport, matter manipulate, etc. Just in a pure fisticuffs. Both Black Adam and Captain Marvel can handle her.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Are you referring to Wonder Woman and Mary's fight in Final Crisis -- the one who was not normal-gods powered Mary Marvel? And why would Mary -- not Billy, not Black Adam -- but Mary, getting punked by Wonder Woman mean that the Shazam family is disrespected -- what the shit? Supergirl gets punked by Wonder Woman regularly -- do you think the Superman family is disrespected, lol?Wonder Woman and Black Adam have had two fights -- once in Metal when Diana had a plot-device -- Nth metal mace -- which she doesn't normally have, and which allowed her to absorb Black Adam's attacks, and another time, in Doomsday Clock, when Black Adam was beating her and the amazons came before she was gravely injured.
In the meanwhile, go look at Black Adam vs Powergirl [even when helped by JSA -- even when Black Adam is futher depowered]. Then go and look at Wonder Woman vs Power Girl. Black Adam looks a tier above, in essence.
And here's Billy against Wonder Woman:
We're literally not even getting into the fact that there's a shitload of spells which are at their disposal, that can teleport, matter manipulate, etc. Just in a pure fisticuffs. Both Black Adam and Captain Marvel can handle her.
Regarding the BA/WW fight you posted, you can clearly see she was distracted fighting Giganta when BA sucker attacks her and she still isn't KOed but fighting him/deflecting his attacks the very next page! That's not an impressive showing for BA at all bro.
And regarding Billy/WW scan, she's not in her right mind and all he did was catch her punch and judo flip her. Then he gets possessed by the skull. That's a non fight.
Originally posted by zopzopYes -- and? Why would Mary not have a power deficit to Wonder Woman? What's next, the Shazam family is getting disrespected because Tawky Tawny is not there biting Wonder Woman's head off? Furthermore -- just to be sure, I'll ask again -- you're referring to Wonder Woman vs Mary in Final Crisis, no? Because in that case, your whole point is irrelevant, since Mary was explicitly not the same -- and Wonder Woman was also blatantly using her skill to beat her using arm locks and grip controls.
When WW punks SG it's usually mentioned on panel that it's SG's inexperience in H2H fighting relative to WW that causes her to lose. It's not a power deficit.
So what IS your point in bringing this up exactly? Or were you just throwing random stuff?
Originally posted by zopzopYes, he hits her with lightning, then blatantly stops and tells her either she's with him or against him -- then they start fighting again, and Themyscira saves her. Black Adam beating the shit out of Wonder Woman to the point that the Amazons intervene and kidnap to save her is not an impressive showing for Black Adam?
Regarding the BA/WW fight you posted, you can clearly see she was distracted fighting Giganta when BA sucker attacks her and she still isn't KOed but fighting him/deflecting his attacks the very next page! That's not an impressive showing for BA at all bro.
lol, Zop.
Also, are you going to ignore Power Girl vs Wonder Woman compared to Power Girl vs Black Adam just to keep the complaining? Because I want to know in advance.
Originally posted by zopzopBilly easily catching a bloodlusted Wonder Woman's punch ("Superman should have killed you in Khandaq"😉 and ragdolling her with one hand is not impressive?
And regarding Billy/WW scan, she's not in her right mind and all he did was catch her punch and judo flip her. Then he gets possessed by the skull. That's a non fight.
You're the one who brought up Wonder Woman, and now you go:
"Ehhh, Black Adam beating the shit out of her until the Amazons literally have to intervene to save her life is not impressive"
"Ehh, Captain Marvel easily matching her physically, at the very least, is nothing!"
"Ehh, did I bring up Mary? Wait, you mean the Mary from Final Crisis that fought Wonder Woman, who is not normal Mary, is the one I brought up? Uhm..nevermind...I guess...uh...a power differential is not normal, Wonder Woman should scream skill as she's putting this version of Mary in locks! skill! Because reasons".
At this point, your constant b*tching about how "oh noes DC treats them bad" is empty talk that you're in a perpetual state of that, frankly, I don't understand.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Yes -- and? Why would Mary not have a power deficit to Wonder Woman? What's next, the Shazam family is getting disrespected because Tawky Tawny is not there biting Wonder Woman's head off? Furthermore -- just to be sure, I'll ask again -- you're referring to Wonder Woman vs Mary in Final Crisis, no? Because in that case, your whole point is irrelevant, since Mary was explicitly not the same -- and Wonder Woman was also blatantly using her skill to beat her using arm locks and grip controls.So what IS your point in bringing this up exactly? Or were you just throwing random stuff?
Yes, he hits her with lightning, then blatantly stops and tells her either she's with him or against him -- then they start fighting again, and Themyscira saves her. Black Adam beating the shit out of Wonder Woman to the point that the Amazons intervene and kidnap to save her is not an impressive showing for Black Adam?
lol, Zop.
Also, are you going to ignore Power Girl vs Wonder Woman compared to Power Girl vs Black Adam just to keep the complaining? Because I want to know in advance.
Billy easily catching a bloodlusted Wonder Woman's punch ("Superman should have killed you in Khandaq"😉 and ragdolling her with one hand is not impressive?
You're the one who brought up Wonder Woman, and now you go:
"Ehhh, Black Adam beating the shit out of her until the Amazons literally have to intervene to save her life is not impressive"
"Ehh, Captain Marvel easily matching her physically, at the very least, is nothing!"
"Ehh, did I bring up Mary? Wait, you mean the Mary from Final Crisis that fought Wonder Woman, who is not normal Mary, is the one I brought up? Uhm..nevermind...I guess...uh...a power differential is not normal, Wonder Woman should scream skill as she's putting this version of Mary in locks! skill! Because reasons".At this point, your constant b*tching about how "oh noes DC treats them bad" is empty talk that you're in a perpetual state of that, frankly, I don't understand.
The fact remains WW was sucker attacked by BA and was still in the fight (and this is after she got through fighting Giganta).
In regards to WW/CM, so what? He caught her punch and flipped her. He was using martial arts techniques on a bloodlusted foe fighting like a 'tard. We all know if they were both in their right minds, WW would beat him either via a straight up mauling or using her lasso to one shot him.
Originally posted by zopzopYou used an invalid showing from Final Crisis of Mary Marvel to try and prove your point -- and once that fails miserably, you want to compare pre-Crisis Mary with pre-Crisis Wonder Woman. But, if you want to run so far away from your original argument that you go back to when Martin Luther King was alive...
Are you kidding? Mary was in a completely different league than WW. Check out the first few decades of each characters existence. WW needed planes to get around and was dodging bullets in fear of her life. Meanwhile Mary was was moving islands/continents/planets, catching and EATING bullets, flying FTL, and sleeping in billion degree heat. Now look at them. It's a complete 180 with Mary being the joke power wise and WW being Superman with a vagina.
Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman has much better feats than Mary Marvel. How unfamiliar do you have to be with the character to not know this?
Originally posted by zopzopShe got hit with lightning once, then Black Adam stopped, gave a speech that she shouldn't be against him, and they resumed fighting.
The fact remains WW was sucker attacked by BA and was still in the fight (and this is after she got through fighting Giganta).
If you think one bolt of lightning is so incredible from Black Adam that it took her out of the fight completely, well, my dear zop zopy zop zop, that just proves how powerful Black Adam is compared to her, doesn't it?
Also, are you going to ignore Power Girl vs Wonder Woman compared to Power Girl vs Black Adam just to keep the complaining? Because I want to know in advance.
I bolded it this time :*
Originally posted by zopzopBilly?
In regards to WW/CM, so what? He caught her punch and flipped her. He was using martial arts techniques on a bloodlusted foe fighting like a 'tard.
The literal teenager from New 52?
Using martial arts to beat Wonder Woman?
By...palming her punch and throwing her around?
Are you high, zopzy?
To make it a simple question, Zop -- how should Captain Marvel, Black Adam, Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr. and Tawky Tawny look compared to Wonder Woman? Physically equal? Vastly physically superior -- all of them? As powerful? Vastly more powerful? Does the fact that they have vastly superior versatility even enter the equation in your mind? The fact that even if they're physically roughly the same, they're wizards on top of that?
And which instance, specifically, bothers you as far as them 'being disrespected'?
Is it Captain Marvel overpowering and throwing bloodlusted Wonder Woman like a towel?
Is it Black Adam beating Wonder Woman so bad the amazons kidnap her from the fight?
Is it Black Adam beating Power Girl like a child, while Wonder Woman is explicitly at best her physical equal and only wins through skill?
Do you think Wonder Woman should be instantly incinerated just by a slap? Or would that, still be too disrespectful?
Maybe any of the Shazam family members could kill Wonder Woman with a fart?
Please, share this disrespect.
Originally posted by Philosophía
To make it a simple question, Zop -- how should Captain Marvel, Black Adam, Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr. and Tawky Tawny look compared to Wonder Woman? Physically equal? Vastly physically superior -- all of them? As powerful? Vastly more powerful? Does the fact that they have vastly superior versatility even enter the equation in your mind? The fact that even if they're physically roughly the same, they're wizards on top of that?And which instance, specifically, bothers you as far as them 'being disrespected'?
Is it Captain Marvel overpowering and throwing bloodlusted Wonder Woman like a towel?
Is it Black Adam beating Wonder Woman so bad the amazons kidnap her from the fight?
Is it Black Adam beating Power Girl like a child, while Wonder Woman is explicitly at best her physical equal and only wins through skill?Do you think Wonder Woman should be instantly incinerated just by a slap? Or would that, still be too disrespectful?
Maybe any of the Shazam family members could kill Wonder Woman with a fart?
Please, share this disrespect.
Originally posted by zopzopWhat does Superman have to do with the question I asked? Your position is that the Shazam family is nowhere near top tier [some of the most absurd shit I've heard since I've been here]:
What would make me happy is :
Superman >= CM
Supergirl >= Mary
Superboy >= Freddy
Originally posted by zopzop
If that's true, that they haven't been this powerful in 50 years that makes them even more pathetic because they aren't anywhere near top tier. 🙁
If it's easier for you, let's ignore the fact that they're Wonder Woman++.
Let's take other top tiers..
How about Supergirl/Powergirl -- are they top tier? Remember The question I ask now, for the 3rd time, of how Black Adam compares with Powergirl --- who is explicitly >= Wonder Woman physically? How many times are you going to ignore both your lack of actual arguments -- and the abudance of them that takes your opinion to the shed.
How about Alan Scott -- is he top tier? How does Black Adam do against him?
How about Doctor Fate -- is he top tier? How does Black Adam do against him? http://i.imgur.com/M3oywvB.jpg
How about the whole of JSA? How does Black Adam 'not a top tier' do against them?
How about Martian Manhunter -- is he a top tier? How does Black Adam do against him? How does Captain Marvel?
Bottom line of this whole discussion is -- you have no argument, other than "Buh muh Superman" -- and Superman beats the shit out of anybody, in the first place. So your "oh noes DC shits on the Marvels 🙁(" woe is me bullshit is essentially empty talk, not backed by what is actually happening in the comics -- where the Marvels/Black Adam are getting more and more overpowered.
