Harrower-class starships

Originally posted by The Merchant
There has never been a stated power output for a Harrower-Class, while the Power outout for an Imperial Star Destroyer is 9.28e+24 Watts. Convert that into Joules and it's basically using 3 Petatons every second. A Petaton can destroy entire Continents. And Star Destroyers can actually convert most of that into firepower. And that's not taking into account that they can store up said energies (Most huge facilitates take into account Watt-Hours rather than just every second.) Meaning that in an hour of building up energy, a Star Destroyer is producing 8 Exatons of firepower, at least half of it can go to the weapons. Once you hit that range you're destroying small Moons/Planetoids. Again, you're pretty much using a superweapon that was just mounted on a Harrower that uses a chain reaction to destroy a planet, they cannot be used against other ships. Read the description on how the Desolator actually destroys planets. No other Harrower even has that. And don't compare the conqueror, which uses brute power to destroy planets, against the Desolator, which uses a chain reaction that does not tap into the power output of the Harrower class.

Desolator is a customized Harrower-class dreadnought with a superweapon on-board. 3 reactors of this starship were designated to power this weapon system alone. Starship still had other reactors on-board to run the rest of the systems.

Conqueror is a model similar to Doombringer, both were equipped with a superweapon with which they could eliminate entire fleets with a single blast.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Conqueror_(superlaser)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Doombringer

If you don't have data on power output of Harrower-class dreadnought then your point about power output of OT era Imperial designs is useless to bring in to this discussion. But keep in mind that it would take 10 years to build a standard model with normal procedures and 1 year to build the same model from a Star Forge like factory drawing power directly from a star.

By the way, Doombringer and Desolator models proved that Harrower-class dreadnoughts are capable of tremendous power output. The superweapons mounted on these models required tremendous power output to function.

See, you weren't paying attention at all. The reason why the power generation is important is BECAUSE they can actually put the majority of that energy into their weapons! They can put half of all that energy into their weapons, meaning a full salvo would be equivalent to say half of the power output. So instead of 4 Exatons it's be 2 Exatons from all the weapons of a Star destroyer firing at the same time. To destroy a Planetoid like Pluto you need only 1 Exaton. The weapons are connected to their reactor, did you really just say that the weapons are separated from the reactor? No, the Conqueror is specifically said to do that AND destroy whole planets, Doombringer only destroys fleets, which have no stated shielding output, no stated durability on the materials they use for their hulls, etc. And what does the Star Forge building prowess have anything to do with their firepower? The Empire had 60% of the 2nd Death Star completed, which is much bigger than the 1st. That's equivalant of building a billion Imperial Star destroyers in literally 6 Months. Yes, 60% of that machine, which is 900 Kilometers in Diameter at 100% while 60% is around 550 Kilometers, was done in 6 Months. The 1st was only 160 Kilometers. This means that the Empire can quite literally built a Star Destroyer in seconds. So if you were trying to prove a point with the SF, they don't compare to the Empire. Doombringer one shots fleets of ships with no known power outputs and the Desolator again uses a chain reaction to destroy a planet, not brute energy.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Almost all the technology in every era of SW basically follows the same principals, and they DO believe in the bigger is better ideal. Technological progress in SW is VERY much like real life, if Harrowers were so great they'd still be using them. Instead their designs are made to be BETTER, which we see in the modern eras like the PT and OT. You did not provide any evidence to prove to me that a Harrower class is better than a ISD, and again stop using the Desolator superweapon. That weapon ignites the atmosphere of a planet and causes vibrations to destroy it. It is not like the Death Star in which you simply pump a lot of energy and the planet explodes. It uses an exotic method that requires little to no power, just sets a chain of events which leads to the destruction of a planet. If you were paying attention to me you would know this. The Harrowers power output had nothing to do with the deployment of the Desolator superweapon.

Harrower-class dreadnought represents first design of modern starship technologies, it was a (major) leap from everything ancient in starship design in every aspect. Manufacturing facilities during OT era permitted production of larger starships like Harrowers, this is the only major difference centuries later.

Desolator weapon fires a single shot to destroy a planet, it doesn't have to be fired repeatedly to achieve this objective. As I pointed out before, this is precursor to capabilities of Death Star project.

Harrower power output have everything to do with deployment of a superweapon system like Desolator. 3 reactors of a Harrower-class dreadnought were linked to Desolator superweapon just to power it. The dreadnought had additional reactors to power all of its other systems, very impressive.

It is continuous, look at Hyperdrives. The sizes of ships means that they have bigger reactors to give more energy across the systems of the ship, that's basic common sense. You don't have to be an engineer to even know that. Again, Desolator uses a chain reaction. The firepower of it is minimal since it isn't inherently destructive. it targets the atmosphere of a planet and causes some weird reaction that makes the planet become an Ion Storm and leads to a bunch of effects like the Shock Drum affect and slowly destroys the planet. The beam itself is incredibly weak, otherwise it would have been used like the Doombringer, against ships. Heck if it was an actual planet buster all those stupid reactions would be completely unnecessary.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Oh yeah, didn't notice Doombringer and the Taris bombing. The Taris bombing is not comparable to what a single Imperial Star Destroyer can do, which destroys the Crust of the planet. To do that you need around 70 Exatons. To destroy Earth's Moon you need 30 Exatons. That can be done in simply 1 hour. As for Doombringer, can it destroy a Continent? Because just a seconds worth of energy from the Imperial Star Destroyer's shielding can withstand that, an hour long supply would be 4 Exatons worth of energy to take down its shields, which is equivalent to destroying a Planetoid.

Taris bombing was performed by Interdictor-class Republic cruiser named Leviathan, flagship of Darth Malak. Harrower-class dreadnoughts are far more advanced then this starship.

Doombringer have firepower equivalent to that of Conqueror.

Originally posted by The Merchant
See, you weren't paying attention at all. The reason why the power generation is important is BECAUSE they can actually put the majority of that energy into their weapons! They can put half of all that energy into their weapons, meaning a full salvo would be equivalent to say half of the power output. So instead of 4 Exatons it's be 2 Exatons from all the weapons of a Star destroyer firing at the same time. To destroy a Planetoid like Pluto you need only 1 Exaton. The weapons are connected to their reactor, did you really just say that the weapons are separated from the reactor? No, the Conqueror is specifically said to do that AND destroy whole planets, Doombringer only destroys fleets, which have no stated shielding output, no stated durability on the materials they use for their hulls, etc. And what does the Star Forge building prowess have anything to do with their firepower? The Empire had 60% of the 2nd Death Star completed, which is much bigger than the 1st. That's equivalant of building a billion Imperial Star destroyers in literally 6 Months. Yes, 60% of that machine, which is 900 Kilometers in Diameter at 100% while 60% is around 550 Kilometers, was done in 6 Months. The 1st was only 160 Kilometers. This means that the Empire can quite literally built a Star Destroyer in seconds. So if you were trying to prove a point with the SF, they don't compare to the Empire. Doombringer one shots fleets of ships with no known power outputs and the Desolator again uses a chain reaction to destroy a planet, not brute energy.

Doombringer packed much greater firepower then a standard Harrower model. It could eliminate entire fleets with a single blast, standard models could not match this output. It is obvious that Doombringer would destroy a planet much quicker in comparison to a standard model. And even the standard model is vastly superior to Interdictor-class Republic cruiser that performed Taris bombing.

As I pointed out before, Harrower-class starships reached epitome of technological capabilities in all aspects.

Originally posted by The Merchant
It is continuous, look at Hyperdrives. The sizes of ships means that they have bigger reactors to give more energy across the systems of the ship, that's basic common sense. You don't have to be an engineer to even know that. Again, Desolator uses a chain reaction. The firepower of it is minimal since it isn't inherently destructive. it targets the atmosphere of a planet and causes some weird reaction that makes the planet become an Ion Storm and leads to a bunch of effects like the Shock Drum affect and slowly destroys the planet. The beam itself is incredibly weak, otherwise it would have been used like the Doombringer, against ships. Heck if it was an actual planet buster all those stupid reactions would be completely unnecessary.

In-fact, reconstituted ancient Sith Empire built a prototype starship which was so fast that it could eliminate targets in hyperspace travels. Do the math.

Yes, larger sizes theoretically imply use of bigger or greater number of reactors. However, Harrower-class starships have been mounted with superweapons that required unprecedented energy output to function. Therefore, design and efficiency matters more then sheer size.

Look at older Intel Pentium processors and compare them with latest Core i7 processors. You won't notice much increase in size, you will notice massive leap in internal design and efficiency.

The beam itself is incredibly weak? 🙄

Desolator was outcome of combination of multiple superweapon technologies, genius. Desolator is an actual planet buster. Did you even play the game?

The Desolator is a superweapon, not the ship itself. This distinction is even said constantly to the HoT. Did you play the game? Even in the game they do no treat the superweapons on the ships as the ships themselves. The Harrower is and always will be an effective ship for it's time, but it is in no way a ship capable of stopping fleets, especially not the standard Harrower, and finally the Leviathan not only wasn't a standard Interdictor model, it was made by the Star Forge, but it took much longer than you're implying to bomb even one section of Taris, which by the way seems to be the only section of Taris with actual city on it, looking from in game. I've never seen anything to suggest the entire planet was covered with a metropolis as with some others.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Desolator is a superweapon, not the ship itself. This distinction is even said constantly to the HoT. Did you play the game? Even in the game they do no treat the superweapons on the ships as the ships themselves. The Harrower is and always will be an effective ship for it's time, but it is in no way a ship capable of stopping fleets, especially not the standard Harrower, and finally the Leviathan not only wasn't a standard Interdictor model, it was made by the Star Forge, but it took much longer than you're implying to bomb even one section of Taris, which by the way seems to be the only section of Taris with actual city on it, looking from in game. I've never seen anything to suggest the entire planet was covered with a metropolis as with some others.

Starships equipped with superweapons are still starships nonetheless and they still have lot of equipment onboard besides a single superweapon. I am not sure what you are trying to convey. You may regard them as super-starships or something.

As far as potential of Harrower-class starship is concerned, it was larger and outgunned any other starship in its time so it wouldn't be surprising that it was capable of holding its own against a fleet of Republic as noted officially: The Harrower is capable of holding its own against starfighter fleets or multiple smaller warships but is best used as the backbone of an Imperial fleet--coordinating attacks, absorbing damage and launching devastating volleys where needed.

Leviathan is an Interdictor-class Republic cruiser, it was not manufactured by Star Forge, it was manufactured by Republic. You can read about it here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan

Taris was just like Coruscant.

Located at the intsersection of no fewer then three heavily trafficked hyperspace trading routes, Taris grew quickly. In the span of only a century the world grew into a massive, planet-wide city. Billions of people flowed through the streets. Skyscappers reached into the heavens. But such glory was not to last. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

It is possible that Taris was bombarded by a fleet instead of just Leviathan but some sources imply Leviathan only. However, Harrower-class starships are far more powerful and advanced in comparison.

I also tend to think that starship weapons have been devastating long before OT era. This explains the performance of even Hammer-head class Republic cruisers.

Speaking of old technologies not being surpassed (not that I agree with LeGenD in this instance), it's interesting that the greatest super weapon ever built, was chronologically the first known super weapon to be built.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Speaking of old technologies not being surpassed (not that I agree with LeGenD in this instance), it's interesting that the greatest super weapon ever built, was chronologically the first known super weapon to be built.

How am I contradicting myself? I see no contradiction in my statement.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Starships are equipped with weapons ranging from Turbolasers to superweapons. Of-course, design factor and power output of a starship come in to play since some weapons cannot be mounted on every kind of starship and work on them. Harrower-class starships were designed to be equipped with and power a huge variety of weapons and no other starship class matched it in any aspect in its era. These kind of developments have happened during PT/OT eras as well, a few ships had been converted to superweapons such as Malevolence and Conqueror.

Starships equipped with superweapons are still starships nonetheless and they still have lot of equipment onboard besides a single superweapon. I am not sure what you are trying to convey. You may regard them as super-starships or something.

As far as potential of Harrower-class starship is concerned, it was larger and outgunned any other starship in its time so it wouldn't be surprising that it was capable of holding its own against a fleet of Republic as noted officially: The Harrower is capable of holding its own against starfighter fleets or multiple smaller warships but is best used as the backbone of an Imperial fleet--coordinating attacks, absorbing damage and launching devastating volleys where needed.

Leviathan is an Interdictor-class Republic cruiser, it was not manufactured by Star Forge, it was manufactured by Republic. You can read about it here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan

Taris was just like Coruscant.

Located at the intsersection of no fewer then three heavily trafficked hyperspace trading routes, Taris grew quickly. In the span of only a century the world grew into a massive, planet-wide city. Billions of people flowed through the streets. Skyscappers reached into the heavens. But such glory was not to last. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

It is possible that Taris was bombarded by a fleet instead of just Leviathan but some sources imply Leviathan only. However, Harrower-class starships are far more powerful and advanced in comparison.

I also tend to think that starship weapons have been devastating long before OT era. This explains the performance of even Hammer-head class Republic cruisers.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
This does not show that ever Harrower class ship somehow has the capability to hold off fleets on its own. And while power output shows the limit of the weapon able to be put on it, this does not mean said weapons are on the standard model, which should be the only one we discuss.

Multiple warships and starfighter fleets represent a fleet collectively.

Why discuss standard models only? Harrower-class starships had multiple models and all should be considered for discussion.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No I regard it as a portable superweapon. This is like me saying Starships have Force potential because Jedi and Sith are on board them and use the life support systems.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No single standard Harrower has ever held off an entire fleet on it's own. The ones equipped with superweapons yes, but the standard variety is till just a starship and can be taken down by a fleet.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And it was also modified by the Star Forge.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The planet seen in game has one section of planet being bombed and one section of city visible. To assume that the entire city was as large as the one section shown is crazy. Though the entire planet is covered with city, as you've shown, you still have no idea how long it took to destroy Taris. This time was certainly not an hour.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Based on your opinion. As I said, the Leviathan was a modified starship by everyone's word but your own. It was actually one of the first ships Revan sent through the Star Forge, so yeah.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And that's cool. Starships still had limitations. The TOR ships are still behind the OT era starships.

Also, provide me an example of starship which surpassed firepower of Oppressor.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
How am I contradicting myself? I see no contradiction in my statement.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What was my point again?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Shouldn't you know your own point?

1. Claim that you don't agree with it
2. Yet claim that the deadliest superweapon was an ancient superweapon

Notice the contradiction?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I know my point but you:

1. Claim that you don't agree with it
2. Yet claim that the deadliest superweapon was an ancient superweapon

Notice the contradiction?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I claimed the second. As for the first, that's not what I meant. I simply disagree with your viewpoint that Harrower Class Starships fall under that category.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Conqueror is a Harrower-class starship and it one-shot a planet, it could destroy any manufactured stuff. Nothing beats this magnitude of firepower among starships (considering all modifications and configurations). You point is moot.

And the empire easily surpassed that level of firepower with the Sun Crusher.