Originally posted by leonidashis invulnerability(in the 'classic' era, at least) all hinged on that pesky force-field. with it active, even the friggin god blast caused him no damage at all. without it, he's been physically harmed by FAR inferior attacks.
this is a good idea for a thread. it has already served to highlight the fact that there is an overestimation of jugg's 'invulnerability'. i can't believe though that no one has shown this scan:it was a cool showing for cain, but his invulnerability has NOT been consistently shown. what is the greatest durability feat juggs has WITHOUT the godblast/force field showing?
i'd submit it is the scan above. but hulk as a similar feat (thanos reduced him to a withered husk and hulk healed almost immediately) and logan has healed from things as bad.
in general, i'd don't think jugg's durability is much above the highest heralds at all. the exemplars hurt him with claw attacks, bedlam hurt him badly through his helmet with psi powers, hell he was even getting pressure pointed in that arc. but people are quick to say that is pis. but, in fact, his being hurt by attacks is more the NORM than the exception imo. not being hurt by guys like spidey and venom? pretty meaningless. can you see them hurting someone like ss? hulk has withstood a full on rage-filled spidey blitz without moving let alone being harmed. even logan's inability to hurt him is contradicted by the shatterstar showing (magic only explains so much as the despayre scan shows). juggs can be considered 'unstoppable' (though war hulk showed that has limits as well) once he starts moving, yet NOT be invulnerable. hell marvel even agreed to show wonderwoman taking him down. unstoppability does not equate to invulnerability and i've never understood conflating the 2.
early on in their careers hulk handled juggs just fine, carver showed scans of his doing even better later on. we know nimrod put him down easily with sonics. i hate having him in vs threads because folks insist his durability protects him from everything so it becomes pointless. hopefully this thread will expose that misconception/myth. imo, based on most showings, his durability shouldn't be very far above high herald, if above it at all. his force field should really almost never come into play except in maybe 1-2 matches out of 10.
looking at his entire history, juggs is a powerful brick with high herald strength and RELATIVE invulnerability, but he is most certainly NOT beyond the power of high heralds to to harm or put down. at least not in all case.
i have always believed that writers simply realized how haxx juggy was with a force-field(esp. for an x-men rogue), and neutered his invulnerability accordingly(by way of never mentioning/depicting the ff again.) in fact, i think his ff was only referenced like one other time outside those thor issues. /shrug
yeah, i/we (??) had a long discussion once upon a time regarding the number of appearances of that ff. it was my opinion that the ff was so rare it was actually ooc for him to call upon it, which is why in an /10 match, i'd say he could use it 1, maybe 2 times at most. the rest of the time? he's roughly high herald imo, perhaps somewhat better and sometimes not as good. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007It's been referenced in his first appearance, and again in a spiderman comic.
his invulnerability(in the 'classic' era, at least) all hinged on that pesky force-field. with it active, even the friggin god blast caused him no damage at all. without it, he's been physically harmed by FAR inferior attacks.i have always believed that writers simply realized how haxx juggy was with a force-field(esp. for an x-men rogue), and neutered his invulnerability accordingly(by way of never mentioning/depicting the ff again.) in fact, i think his ff was only referenced like one other time outside those thor issues. /shrug
It's been mentioned a few other times in the X-Men series.
Juggernaut was always considered above high herald level considering durability or invulnerability. Now it depends on his forcefield (since writers are always changing their minds), but when Juggie is on, he is unstoppable for the likes of Hulk, Thanos, Thor etc...
Originally posted by h1a8
IMO, nothing can physically harm a full powered Juggernaut.
Nothing on the level of Superman and such.
