the question is in general would repeatedly making that kind of decision lead to a net benefit or a net loss. it's not to say that you will never see any returns. but if over the course of a lifetime you see a net loss through that strategy and those on the other end see a net gain then you are being taken advantage of imo.
Originally posted by Astner
And unless you let them take advantage of you then you're not nice.That's how the game goes.
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Originally posted by Robtard
Do you actually have this belief or are you just being Astner?
Honestly though, why do I have to let someone take advantage of me to be nice? I could just be polite and say no.
Originally posted by red g jacks
the question is in general would repeatedly making that kind of decision lead to a net benefit or a net loss. it's not to say that you will never see any returns. but if over the course of a lifetime you see a net loss through that strategy and those on the other end see a net gain then you are being taken advantage of imo.
Yeah, and I don't think there is particularly much evidence that being a nice person would lead to a net loss.
Originally posted by Astner
"He has a history of not repaying you."
So he's not paying you back. But his friend thinks you are a really nice guy, and then invites you to hang out with his family over Christmas. His dad owns a big company and offers you an executive position. You live happily ever after.
Oh no, that scenario didn't go at all the way you wanted....I guess it's proven that being nice pays off
Originally posted by Bardock42well lets take the example at hand. if he has a history of not paying you back then it would stand to reason that you will most likely see a net loss.
Yeah, and I don't think there is particularly much evidence that being a nice person would lead to a net loss.
maybe his dad is bill gates and hires you, or maybe he wins the lottery and buys you a yacht. the real question is, what is most likely to happen?
Originally posted by Bardock42
So he's not paying you back. But his friend thinks you are a really nice guy, and then invites you to hang out with his family over Christmas. His dad owns a big company and offers you an executive position. You live happily ever after.
You might want to try donating money to homeless people, chances are that one of them might be a billionaire in disguise who's looking for a nice guy to inherit his fortune.
Originally posted by red g jacks
well lets take the example at hand. if he has a history of not paying you back then it would stand to reason that you will most likely see a net loss.maybe his dad is bill gates and hires you, or maybe he wins the lottery and buys you a yacht. the real question is, what is most likely to happen?
The thing is you don't know what's going to happen. But being nice does make people like you, and that increases your chances of them helping you when you need it.
At any rate it's not mean to decline lending someone money that still owes you from before, and it does not mean you are not a nice person.
Originally posted by Bardock42
The thing is you don't know what's going to happen. But being nice does make people like you, and that increases your chances of them helping you when you need it.
The only way to get people to help you is to be clear with favors, i.e. "you owe you one," because that prepares people for returning the service.
Originally posted by Astner
Not quite. Being nice only make people expect more of you.The only way to get people to help you is to be clear with favors, i.e. "you owe you one," because that prepares people for returning the service.
Couldn't they just put up these debts against each other and call it even?
Originally posted by Bardock42you never know what's going to happen, but we can certainly speculate about probabilities. and if you employed that strategy in every situation then i think you would most probably see a net loss. if you only employed it in situations where the person had a rich dad or some other strategically enticing incentive then you are not being nice, you're actually taking advantage of them.
The thing is you don't know what's going to happen. But being nice does make people like you, and that increases your chances of them helping you when you need it.At any rate it's not mean to decline lending someone money that still owes you from before, and it does not mean you are not a nice person.
i'm not advocating being mean and i don't think there is a strict dichotomy between mean and nice. some actions are neutral, and all people are nice at times and mean at other times. being strictly one or the other seems to me to be a terrible strategy.
i actually think altruism is a good thing and i am glad people have the impulse to be nice. but it isn't necessarily something you will gain from strategically, and imo that doesn't really matter. you get a good feeling from being nice and that is why you do it. if it were just the strategically optimal choice every time then there would be no reason at all for humans to develop morality.
Again, this seems to come down to a different definition of "nice". I believe that one can be nice without being taken advantage of. Really the scenario you refer to is more foolish than nice. At any rate, the question was about whether "nice guys finish last", which i do not believe to be accurate in my view of what a nice guy is.
The most successful people I know are very kind. Not nice, per se. Nice is superficial. Nice is putting on airs for the sake of appearances. But by kind I mean genuinely caring. There are too many varied paths to success to count. But mutually beneficial ones tend to feel the best.
Anyone trying to throw maxims around is an absolutist idiot, though. There are 7 billion people on the planet. There are too many paths to success to boil it down to quaint aphorisms or refutations to them. If anything, finishing first/last probably has very little to do with being nice. It's a platitude aimed at softening certain blows. A determined person, nice or not, is more likely to finish first than a lazy person. Variables like that are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether or not you're nice.
tl;dr try not to worry about nice or not, OP.
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Drive is more important than how nice or mean you are.
Originally posted by AstnerWith your girlish build I can't imagine you're as aggressive IRL as you try to be online.
Nice guys are cowards.
Anyway, the definition of "nice" in this thread seems to be being equated with "naive and stupid".
You can be a generally nice guy while not being so much of a little guy that you let people walk all over you ("Sure dawg I'll work this job for free for over a year to pay your car off", I know someone who is going through a situation like this right now). Whether that makes you less "nice" than someone who does is debatable.