Scourge and Wrath vs Exar Kun and Darth Malgus

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
"There's been a distress call from the Twi'lek settlement...I'm on my way to the settlement meet me there."
[plot and details]
"Matriarch stand aside, handing over the boy/girl's master wasn't enough. This Padawan has to die"
"Bengel Morr came to me. He said he would end the flesh raider attacks if we gave him your master."
[mindrape, Jedi nonsense, and tears]

I didn't ask for that quote.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
While no doubt the HoT was skilled, saying was as they grew considerably throughout the next few years and had training on board the Emperor's Station, growing more there, Praven was more marveled by their power and honor than anything, it seemed to me. Ancient Sith stuff.

I don't see how you'd come to that conclusion. After you beat him Praven says "Such skill. So much power. Impressive.” It's pretty equal in terms of his praise.

Originally posted by Based
Nyriss stated that Scourge has a gift in that he gets a massive amp by feeding on the emotions of his opponent. Malgus' emotions are on par with a teenage girl who just got dumped at prom. He'll amp Scourge to the point where he slaughters him.
But y'all can just suck each others dicks instead. 👆

Yes, he can feed on emotions of opponents. Yes it makes him stronger and no, it doesn't give him advantage over opponents. Feeding on emotions only helps realize own potential. Some characters draw on their own emotions, others draw on emotions of opponent, end result is the same - achieve peak performance according to given potential/capabilities.

Regardless, Scourge was shown in action only to feed on fear of mooks. His talent failed him against trained opponents in the same books. Malgus has no feer nor lack of training. Otherwise Scourge would gain huge amp from Vitiate's butthurt over being Force pushed by Revan.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't ask for that quote.

I don't see how you'd come to that conclusion. After you beat him Praven says "Such skill. So much power. Impressive.” It's pretty equal in terms of his praise.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Could have sworn. Anyway, I mean the part where he says Vitiate was supposed to be dead at their feat and the HoT wielded his power as their own. Take that as any meaning you want, many are unlikely. Not that Scourge saying the HoT is the greatest Jedi he has ever seen means anything post Act II, as that's not when he fought the HoT, and Scourge has been having wet dreams about them for 300 years.

Ah, I see what you mean now. Ok. I don't quite get your second point though. How does that not mean anything? Scourge had wet dreams about the Hero for a reason. Every other Jedi failed, only the Hero could beat Vitiate.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So much and such are very different and don't sound equal at all. 😬

Well they are. In both cases he's marveling at them. So your argument that the HoT only beat him through raw power is pretty obviously bunk. Clearly she displayed impressive skill as well in the fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ah, I see what you mean now. Ok. I don't quite get your second point though. How does that not mean anything? Scourge had wet dreams about the Hero for a reason. Every other Jedi failed, only the Hero could beat Vitiate.

Well they are. In both cases he's marveling at them. So your argument that the HoT only beat him through raw power is pretty obviously bunk. Clearly she displayed impressive skill as well in the fight.

@FreshestSlice

Good lord, are you OK?

You are overlooking important points and arguing for the sake of argument, making this debate unconstructive.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Twi'leks talk about it when they try to capture you.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Don't pull that shit, LeGenD. Being praised as powerful is given to every random person with a name out there. I'm already wasting much of my time replying to your asinine responses. I'm not going to make a list of everyone called powerful.

Son, here is an advice: don't make claims that you are (not) willing to validate when requested to.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Scourge, let's say that to not confuse, also thinks the HoT can wield the Emperor's full power by the end of Act III. Again I ask, what is with you using hyperbolic praise as fact. Especially from someone trying to manipulate the you into serving their purposes. The HoT did not display anything that put them on Revan's level as of the end of Act II, and Scourge hasn't displayed anything to put him on Nyriss' level throughout the entire story.

Prior to confrontation with Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath), HoT had eliminated legions of enemies in different planets, solved many issues (dealt with many challenges), and defeated several powerful and notable adversaries on separate occasions such as Bengel Morr, Sith Lord Tarnis, Ako Domi, Sith Lord Sadic, Valis (Child of the Emperor), Sith Lord Praven, Kira Carsen (possessed by Emperor) and Darth Angral.
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HoT is also officially identified as one of the strongest and most resolute Jedi of the Order at the time of his first confrontation with Emperor. Though Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath) pointed out that HoT is "Jedi's finest" at this point.
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So once again, what makes you think that HoT does not holds a candle to earlier champions of the Order during ACT II?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Emperor making Scourge into his enforcer and amping him is not a measure of Scourge's power. Seriously, implying that because he is the Wrath he must be at anyone's level is again, foolish, because it doesn't translate into anything besides your opinion. As you've provided absolutely nothing to prove any of Scourge's hype besides he's an experienced swordsman, I'm not going to assume that he is uber powerful.

Emperor empowered Lord Scourge "permanently" to make him suitable for Emperor's Wrath role. I provided evidence: There was only one Scourge, his life prolonged by Sith Alchemy, and his battle prowess enhanced by the Emperor. (TOR Encyclopedia)

The term "battle prowess" covers every factor that comes in to play for offensive actions, not just martial arts.

The primary purpose of Emperor's Wrath is to eliminate threats to Emperor himself. This is combat-oriented role and involves supervision of even the most powerful Sith of the Empire (Emperor excluded). Logically, only an exceptionally strong Sith can deliver in this kind of role.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's great, where are the feats that back up his supposed strength that makes him above Malgus or Kun. I've never denied that Scourge has strength, but saying that because someone does not want to fight Scourge that they must be weaker than him is a fallacy.

Anything to back up the claim? No? Let's move on then.

Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath) have not been officially depicted in action much. Known feats are sending HoT packing with a powerful wave of energy at one point during confrontation with him (Yes, this is coded action sequence like Revan's asteroid pulling action sequence) and single-handedly eliminating a group of Sith with seemingly telekinetic powers to prevent execution of HoT's allies on another occasion. These two events indicate that Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath) is highly competent in ways of the Force.
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In addition, as I pointed out before, I am not in the position to accurately rank Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath) in the Empire, only authors can do this. I can only assert that he is one of the greatest warriors of the Empire and can hold his own against even the most powerful Sith in the Empire with exception of Emperor, should the situation demand.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I'm sorry, not really, but saying that because Scourge killed them, they must have been extremely skilled and powerful Sith and Jedi that would have been a threat to the Emperor at the time of their killing is also baseless. For one who talks about common sense, you seem to think that everyone waits until someone is at their peak to challenge them.

Read this statement again: When a Jedi grew too powerful or a Sith too ambitious, Scourge eliminated the threat. (TOR Encyclopedia)

Key word is "when."

Q: Do you think that a Jedi padawan or Sith apprentice would pose a threat to Emperor and his plans?

Only those Jedi and Sith were targeted for assassination who were actually identified as a threat to Emperor and his plans for reasons including power, ambition and plans against Emperor. No rocket science in this matter.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You don't know the difference between has and had.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Don't put words in my mouth. What I said is that the Wrath was sent to kill Jedi and Sith before they became too powerful and a threat to the Emperor. That does not mean that they must be apprentices and Padawans. It means that they are killed before they become true threats or grow into their full power, as anyone with the common sense you claim to have would have done.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I advice you learn on what that means.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And you don't get the point. The Wrath monitoring the Empire does not make the Wrath any more powerful than anyone else. Again, without feats to back up his power it is completely your opinion with no basis. While it comes with implied competency, you cannot claim he is above anyone with actual feats to support their power.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Bane's goal was to accomplish what the ancient Sith could not, which was total domination of the galaxy, a feat the the Sith Empire has not been shown to accomplish. Ancient knowledge was rediscovered and converted for many lifetimes to accomplish this. That does not mean that by the time of the PT the Sith had just caught up to the ancient Sith, and it also has nothing to do with the entire galaxy suddenly losing any knowledge they would have gained for Sith tech, most of which had nothing to do with the Dark Side.

You were talking about competence of Brotherhood and I reminded you that Brotherhood Sith do not hold a candle to ancient Sith in quality.

Why do you think that Darth Bane began to despise Brotherhood?

This was the realization:

Bane hadn’t found what he was looking for in the tombs. But in the long trek back across the desert his mind had finally become clear. Hunger, thirst, exhaustion: the physical suffering cleansed his thoughts. It stripped away all his illusions and exposed the lies of Qordis and the Academy. The spirits of the Sith were gone from Korriban forever. But it was Lord Kaan's

Brotherhood of Darkness-not the Jedi-who were to blame. They had twisted and perverted the ancient order of the Sith. The Academy's teachings flew in the face of everything Bane had learned in the archives about the ways of the dark side. Kaan had cast aside the true power of the individual and replaced it with the false glory of self-sacrifice in the name of a worthy cause. He sought to destroy the Jedi through might of arms, rather than cunning. Worst of all, he proclaimed that all were equal in the Brotherhood of the Sith. But Bane knew equality was a myth. The strong were meant to rule; the weak, to serve.

The Brotherhood of Darkness stood for everything that was wrong with the modern Sith. They had fallen from the true path. Their failure was the reason the spirits of the Dark Lords had vanished. None on Korriban--not Master, not apprentice-had been worthy of their wisdom; none worthy of their power. They had simply faded away, scattered like a handful of dust cast across the desert sand. Bane could see the truth so clearly now. Yet Qordis and the others were forever blind. They followed Kaan as if he had bound them up with some secret spell. (Star Wars: Darth Bane: Path of Destruction)

This was Bane's experience by studying a holocron of an ancient Sith Lord:

And there was far more than just the ancient practices of dark side sorcerers stored inside the Holocron. In only a few short weeks he'd learned more about the true nature of the dark side than he had in all his time on Korriban. Revan had been a true Sith Lord, unlike the simpering Masters who bowed to Kaan and his Brotherhood. And soon all his knowledge-his understanding of the dark side-would belong to Bane. (Star Wars: Darth Bane: Path of Destruction)

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Also, you need to refresh your knowledge of (Star Wars) history. Ancient Sith nearly destroyed the Republic and Jedi Order about 2 times in history. In-fact, they absolutely purged the Jedi Order once. However, internal rivalries among ancient Sith prevented absolute conquest of Republic once and Revan prevented Republic's demise by influencing Emperor afterwards. Quality wasn't lacking, internal rivalries were a big issue.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Get off your high horse. All you've done is annoy me for a good month and a half and put me on the verge of vomiting. But as the idea that you believe you have the right to claim that you have educated me is laughable, I'll continue replying for the hell of it.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Having three hundred years to kill 1000 people is not super impressive in the role of an enforcer when you have no idea of the placing of said kills in any time frame. Do not insult my understanding of English, when you obviously aren't reading what anyone is saying.

I have told you repeatedly that time span based argument is weak and have no baring on competence of Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath). It was not like as if Lord Scourge was involved in a competition for kill count. He acted against those whom Emperor desired to be eliminated, simple.

Nonetheless, Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath) have stupendous kill count against Jedi and Sith. And this accomplishment affirms that he is among the greatest warriors and most powerful Sith to have ever existed.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No it's not. Praven defeat at the hands of the HoT is from all accounts do to the HoT's power more than their skill in the saber. If you actually played the Knight's storyline, you would know that. And as the HoT has a natural power level well above just about anyone in SWTOR, saying that because they beat Praven, they must be on par with anyone in sabers is baseless.

"Such skill. So much power. Impressive." (Sith Lord Praven)

Notice the points? Lord Praven was impressed by both dueling ability and power of HoT. Dueling ability and power collectively define "combat prowess" of any Force-user.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Malgus has feats to suggest his power, while Scourge has literally only opinions. If he can't show said power that you claim he has, it means nothing.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except I actually saw the HoT defeat the Emperor with their mastery of the Force, and it was just someone stating, "The HoT traveled around the galaxy and defeated many Sith. Everyone in the Jedi Order respected them and knew that they were indeed their champion. S/he was truly redeemed."

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I've already been through that. If it's not enough for you, whatever.

And if you're going to keep replying stop with the thousand line posts.

I'll point out that more people than just Scourge had called the Hero the Order's greatest Jedi by this point.

I'll respond to you by tonight LeGenD, but you're going to blatantly ignore the quotes I already provided about the Twi'leks I'm not going to bother responding. Especially when you continue to spam the same quotes over and over again and try to base your opinion as fact into massive page long posts. .

As for the HoT being the Order's greatest Jedi, again what does that have to do with this thread, and where did I say that they weren't? That doesn't make them the greatest Jedi in history and it has nothing to do with them being more powerful than Revan at that point.

@FreshestSlice

I am paying attention to your statements, that is how I am responding. If you have been asked to present evidence for certain points, it is for the purpose of greater knowledge.

Also, you are operating with a pre-determined mindset about certain stuff. I have presented official information to support my points but you continue to ignore them and present your own theories. I had to cite quotes again and again to make you understand the errors in your interpretation of them and your theories.