Why the Dark Side is stronger

Started by Q992 pages
Oneness
Power in the Force =/= Ability to win a fight.

It often does overlap.

Mace Windu was a great warrior, greater than Yoda but he was unable to repel Force lightning bare-handed.

Because he doesn't have that specific skill. The Horn/Halcyons can, and they're weaker.

Windu is still fantastically strong in the force.

Wider range of skills =/= more power. If Windu had been in Nomi's time, he'd have been trained in more esoteric abilities. If Nomi had been in Windu's, she'd be much more focused in her abilities just as he is.

The underlying argument here is that either way the Dark Side allows one to progress more quickly.

In winning battles, concentration and energy-output of Force powers is far greater with hatred as an emotional state than otherwise. You're more powerful and destructive.

In mastering esoteric abilities, the dark side is still superior in that it allows one to tap into hidden regions of their psyche, and obsess past the point of insanity. Darth Bane: DOE, Darth Plagueis, and DE are all examples of Sith being pushed passed the bring of insanity to develop a myriad of exotic and unnatural esoteric abilities.

You're pushing it further. Your body and your sanity pay the ultimate price. The other disadvantage is that you're constantly at war with the Living Force: You're inheriting all of the negatives of fortune and chance and your plans will go awry because of this.

And the one who can succeed for a time to go against the current has, by far, a greater knack for survival and problem solving because they're constantly being pushed to strive, survive, and they're constantly running into obstacles. Their primal nature is free and unleashed, they're completely immoral and unafraid of shame.

Talk about courage, completely fearless and unashamed of how openly cruel they are. They're willing to be driven mad for eternity in the chaos realm for a time to shine above all other beings in the galaxy.

They're badasses, they will do anything because they can.

Mace can block lightning with the Force, (to an extent) as displayed in the RotS comic. He catches most of Sidious's bolts with his blade, but a few snake around and he repels them with his off hand.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Mace can block lightning with the Force, (to an extent) as displayed in the RotS comic. He catches most of Sidious's bolts with his blade, but a few snake around and he repels them with his off hand.
Comics depicting film, and novelizations are held as non-canon when contradicted by the film.

It doesn't really contradict the film. There were lightning bolts spraying everywhere, there's no way to tell he wasn't bouncing some away.

The comic depicted it not in a Yoda-esque fashion, but more like bolts were turning away from Mace when they got close to him, in an invisible barrier-ish fashion.

Another disadvantage of the dark side, demonstrated by Revan, Vader, Vitiate, and Sidious; is that it's difficult to think tactically when you're insane.

Wall of light & Sever force?

No?

Originally posted by Oneness
Another disadvantage of the dark side, demonstrated by Revan, Vader, Vitiate, and Sidious; is that it's difficult to think tactically when you're insane.

Dafuq are you talking about?

Revan, Vader, and Sidious have never had a problem with tactical thinking. Vitiate's tactical errors in combat could be more attributed to overconfidence or being caught off guard. These guys weren't insane.

If anything, it's those who are Chaos aligned, not Dark aligned, who have a problem with insanity, ie. Abeloth, Joruus C'baoth, anyone infected with Force Psychosis.

Oneness
The underlying argument here is that either way the Dark Side allows one to progress more quickly.

In winning battles, concentration and energy-output of Force powers is far greater with hatred as an emotional state than otherwise. You're more powerful and destructive.

And yet, in many of the really great battles Jedi have won. Sidious only beat Windu due to reinforcements, his ability to deflect lightning was giving Mace the edge.

In practical terms, for all this supposed 'great power' the Jedi win at least as many battles, so is the power truly greater?

Originally posted by Oneness
Another disadvantage of the dark side, demonstrated by Revan, Vader, Vitiate, and Sidious; is that it's difficult to think tactically when you're insane.

Except they weren't insane. Vitiate was afraid of his own demise, yes, but he wasn't nuts. Palpatine led the Empire for over 20 years and still had all his lights on, up to his death in ROTJ. Even his clone was "all there", until the end of DE, and even that can be rationalized (he DID die, after all. That has to play havoc with one's psyche). Revan was hailed for his "tactical brilliance", even as a DLOTS. As far as Vader goes, if you're talking about the Mustafar duel, he wasn't insane, just very angry and overconfident.

Evil doers are never sane as they feel driven to commit acts of cruelty out of a will to do good. George Lucas' opinion and philosophy in which he bestowed upon Sith like Vader [EP III Making Of Commentary]. They're misguided, confused, insane.

They train themselves to go against their natural programming, which is how they're able to push the Force further, approaching things from unnaturally high perspectives and extremes of the emotional spectrum. When they're in a position of comfort they'll still be more desperate, and when pushed to survive they'll become lose it which is why they must stay one step ahead. They're unleashed by the limits of morality (insanity). Vitiate most of all. DE Sidious, Nihilus, and Vitiate were psychologically able to go to more extremes than anyone in the mythos, their mastery of esoteric abilities mirror the depth of their perception, which is allowed only because they work harder and will do anything in their power to get ahead. It is precisely their insanity that allows them to work unnaturally hard, like machines, conducting operations like clockwork.

It's why Ash admired the Xenomorph in Alien; "Its [...] perfection is matched by its hostility. [...] A survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality."

Originally posted by Oneness
Another disadvantage of the dark side, demonstrated by Revan, Vader, Vitiate, and Sidious; is that it's difficult to think tactically when you're insane.

Actually Darth Revan might be the most sane Sith in the mythos. But yeah your point still stands.

Since when is George Lucas an authority on insanity?

Anyway, even accepting his definition of insane, he wrote a character (Sidious) who was both insane and a tactical genius.

Originally posted by Q99
f Nomi had been in Windu's, she'd be much more focused in her abilities just as he is.

I actually disagree on this point. Even before being trained as a Jedi, she had a natural aptitude for Battle Meditation.

Originally posted by Ace Hambone
Since when is George Lucas an authority on insanity?

Anyway, even accepting his definition of insane, he wrote a character (Sidious) who was both insane and a tactical genius.

In a way that ultimately lead to his destruction.

Basically sith schemes are grand but self-destructive. They flare up and burn out.

By staying in hiding in isolation they can last for awhile, but they aren't built to last.

Originally posted by Selenial
Wall of light & Sever force?

No?

This.

Also, the Light Side is ironically the only path to immortality, which is the ultimate personal goal of a Sith, to dominate forever.

Therein lies the issue, trying to dominate everything never works out, not ever.

Will of the Force > Dark Side Users > Light Side Users.

The difference being, the Light Side users have the Will of the Force as their ally. Dark Side users never will because the biggest baddest Dark Lords have absorbing life, sometimes all of it, as a ticking box.

Darth Sidious, Lord Vitiate, Exar Kun, Darth Nihilus, Darth Nox, etc, etc...

They all tried in some form to absorb the living force, with varying levels of success. The will of the force decided to give them the finger and all of them perished.

There are of course many many other examples with varying levels of success down different paths, where a Sith or Dark Sider attempted to achieve immortality... domination over life and death, biggest mistake you can make if you are a Force User in Star Wars IMO.

The smartest Sith use a cold icy hatred to achieve their ends, makes them much harder to put down.

Originally posted by Q99
In a way that ultimately lead to his destruction.

Basically sith schemes are grand but self-destructive. They flare up and burn out.

By staying in hiding in isolation they can last for awhile, but they aren't built to last.

Therein lies why a Jedi is stronger than a Sith, the Sith's impatience with their allies and overconfidence in their own abilities.

Patience requires calmness. A Sith will never be patient with others and unless they can absolutely control everyone, their impatience will make them too insane to function optimally. This is what happened to Sidious. Sidious could not foresee Vader stepping out of line. Too overconfident.

The Sith are constantly ashamed of weakness, the Jedi embrace it use it to stir the goodness in non-Sith or Sith with good in them (like Vader) to their cause.

The Sith try and control everyone, stirring nothing in them, but instead forcing them to submit. In this submissive state, their allies are weak and easily dispatched.

Sidious never trained an apprentice that could (Maul) or would (Vader) overthrow him. Eliminated his master. He was a scab, pure and simple.

That kind of behavior inspires no one but the impatient (like Anakin); and the impatient will wise up sooner or later.

Anakin wanted a wise dictatorship, but somewhere along the line he lost the ability to distinguish between a wise dictatorship, and a cruel one.

Without the ability to stir, not use, others to progress your cause; your cause is useless.

Originally posted by Based
Actually Darth Revan might be the most sane Sith in the mythos. But yeah your point still stands.
Revan went insane and that's why he was defeated by a Sith Strike Team in SWTOR.

Originally posted by Oneness
Revan went insane and that's why he was defeated by a Sith Strike Team in SWTOR.

If Revan actually went insane, it wasn't a result of him being a darksider (which he wasn't), it was a result of, I don't know, being tortured for three hundred years! Not really a valid point here.

Plus that was a pretty damn good strike team.

The main source of power for a Jedi or a Sith is will.

Will is an emotional state, and the aspect with greater emotional extremes is the irrational one. In a sense the dark side is stronger, for the pure of heart (evil).

As for Anakin, it was more tempting, and it would was easier to lestat go of his moral responsibilities. Quicker, easier, more seductive. But he couldn't have crystalline hatred, the inner conflict took from him his purity of will and his ability to fully utilize the dark side.

This is what Yoda spoke of, a Jedi has the patience to fully master himself - a Sith has transcended patience and is as quick to develop as he is insane and destructive.