A crime against yourself%

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Your friends might be relatively progressive, for what I read on Wikipedia says it should ideally be done straight:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah

😕

Having said that, if ever people were justified in giving babies alcohol,
it'd be tough finding a more warranted occasion ...

Why do it at all, if you are a believer in Christ the bible says its a circumcision of the heart, not the flesh after accepting Jesus. The shedding of blood was done by Jesus, and there for we don't

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

Originally posted by Bentley
Indeed 👆

Quite. *twirls magnificent handlebar mustache and tips top-hat*

thanks brothers for sharing

If the above is true, it would appear that:

1. Circumcision is NOT "silly" from a medical standpoint.

2. There is a great deal of wisdom in some of the things dismissed as tradition.
I also followed his "fact", it seems like a BS/made up number:

Infections of the urethra. Many studies have proven that uncircumcised boys are more exposed to infection of the urethra. In some studies the rate was 39 times more among uncircumcised boys. In other studies the rate was ten times more. Other studies showed that 95% of children who suffered from infections of the urethra were uncircumcised, whereas the rate among circumcised children did not exceed 5%. http://www.missionislam.com/health/...isionislam.html

Nothing is sourced on that page.

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1. It's not exactly hard to find out information on this.
Google "circumcision" and "medical" on a line together and you get many hundreds of thousands of results.

2. On a subject like this, exact numbers aren't as instructive as general trends.
If the numbers were 85% and 15% instead of 95% and 5%, would it really be wise to dismiss the findings?

What, would you then just say,
"Oh, only 8 out of every 10 suffered for being uncircumcised"

or

"You're really only FIVE times more likely to get an infection (15x5=75) if you stay uncircumcised, so it's not worth it ..."?

That study would still be making a very strong case for circumcision even with lower numbers substituted.

3. There ARE numerous health benefits, relevant to the concerns of people today, brought about by circumcision.
Even religion neutral/medical heavy sites will tell you as much, despite beginning in legalese disclaiming ambivalence:

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What has been the medical view of circumcision?

In 1975, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) stated in no uncertain terms that "there is no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision of the newborn." In 1983, the AAP and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) restated this position. In 1999 and again in 2005, the AAP again restated this position of equivocation.

Currently, the practice of newborn circumcision is very common. It has been estimated that a majority of males in the United States are circumcised. This number varies depending upon ethnicity and religious affiliation.

Regarding newborn circumcision, most physicians today agree with the practice of informing parents of the risks and benefits of the procedure in an unbiased manner. Recently, however, several large studies revealed a large decrease in HIV transmission in circumcised males compared to uncircumcised males. This may ultimately influence some changes in recommendations in the near future, and there is significant pressure for the AAP and ACOG to reconsider their positions.
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http://www.medicinenet.com/circumci..._and_cons_facts

4. Circumcision done young is less complicated than circumcision done later in life.

5. Religions often "disguise" proper hygienic practices as ritual washings and observances.

6. With no foreskin there, proper hygiene is easier for most people to handle.

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.. circumcision ...

I'm ... a firm believer in allowing the person to make that choice for themselves once they become of age.

Why? Are you yourself uncircumcised?

Or did you get circumcision performed at a later age?

It's a VASTLY different experience at 30 years of age as opposed to 30 days of age ...

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Circumcision as prescribed by Islam involves cutting the foreskin covering the glans of the ***** only. Those who flay the skin surrounding the ***** or flay the entire *****, as is done in some savage countries, and claim in their ignorance that this is the circumcision prescribed in Islam, this is nothing but something prescribed by the Shaytaan and made attractive to the ignorant, and it is a torment to the one who is circumcised. It goes against the Sunnah of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the Islamic sharee'ah which is based on ease and which enjoins preservation of life.

It is haraam for a number of reasons, including the following:

1 - The Sunnah mentions cutting off the foreskin covering the glans of the ***** only.

2 - This is torture and mutilation, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade mutilation and torture of dumb beasts, committing outrages upon them or cutting off their limbs. It is more appropriate that tormenting the sons of Adam should be more forbidden, and a more serious sin.

3 - This is contrary to the humanity and kindness encouraged by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when he said, "Allaah has decreed humanity in all things."

4 - This may lead to disease or death of the one who is circumcised, and that is not permissible because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"And do not throw yourselves into destruction"

[Al-Baqarah 2:195]

"And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another)"

[Al-Nisa '4:29]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLcwWhmud0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TinGERmkquw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz8t93Fau-Q

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- Story of Ibrahim circumcision and Jesus, and Mohammed (peace be upon them) are listed

- That Abraham first circumcised by his hands
- 575
-
- Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Abraham did his circumcision with an adze at the age of eighty." Sahih Bukhari

-And Abdul Muttalib circumcised him (Prophet Muhammad )on the seventh day

--even the Messiah. He was circumcised and the Christians affirm that, and do not deny that, as they also affirm that
Christ, peace be upon him had been circumcised in childhood
Listen carefully to the lecture(in luke 2;21)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHhVD5HLZMU

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\\\\he said
Let's just get one make one thing clear. what will you say
on a more serious note. Some women enjoy anal sex. It's not just meant for homosexual men

yes dear brother

It's not about enjoy
It's here for something harmful to both parties

- That the pair will follow the wrong way

Will forget the natural way

Which leads to thinking in new styles more deviation

- As well as the wife will be damaged physically

And forget the natural place for pregnancy and childbearing

And lost the natural instinct in the way of sexual deviation

also

This level of worldly and Shahwani

But you did not think of the consequences of religious

If this seen something important and useful

This law will entitle

But
Does not do the prophets and messengers this

This is forbidden and dangerous and detrimental to human beings

Orders of allah is not against human nature

But

Regulation of the wishes and desires

thank you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RboZ12TYdg

Circumcisions unless done to fix a defect or detrimental condition(eg phimosis) are silly and not done for any "good" reasons other than religious beliefs and/or aesthetics.

Another way to look at it, if you believe God created man in his image, why alter that creation by removing perfectly healthy flesh that is there for a purpose in the first place?

No serious christian denomination interprets the "created in his image" phrase as a physical reference.

I've seen lousy horror films making fun of that interpretation.

Originally posted by Robtard
Another way to look at it, if you believe God created man in his image, why alter that creation by removing perfectly healthy flesh that is there for a purpose in the first place?

wouldn't it be for health reasons? i mean, circumcision was said to reduce the risk of HIV infection...

about God creating man in His image and likeness, i believe that it's a spiritual aspect, not a physical one... why? because our physical body is formed out of the dust of the ground:

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Genesis 2:7

the "man" created inside the physical body, that's the one who's in God's image and likeness:

"Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day."
II Corinthians 4:16

the inward man, the "man" inside the physical body:

"And put on the new man, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness."
Ephesians: 4:24

Originally posted by Bentley
No serious christian denomination interprets the "created in his image" phrase as a physical reference.

I've seen lousy horror films making fun of that interpretation.

You can remove the "in his image" and just go with "created", same point.

Originally posted by dyajeep
wouldn't it be for health reasons? i mean, circumcision was said to reduce the risk of HIV infection...

about God creating man in His image and likeness, i believe that it's a spiritual aspect, not a physical one... why? because our physical body is formed out of the dust of the ground:

"And [b]the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Genesis 2:7

the "man" created inside the physical body, that's the one who's in God's image and likeness:

"Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day."
II Corinthians 4:16

the inward man, the "man" inside the physical body:

"And put on the new man, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness."
Ephesians: 4:24 [/B]

You want to lower the risk of HIV, wear a condom, have fewer partners, be more sensible etc. Circumcisions have also been around A LOT longer than the 20th century.

But you still believe God created man, no? Ergo, God created the foreskin as part of man.

Originally posted by Robtard
You can remove the "in his image" and just go with "created", same point.

Yeah, sometimes I could use rereading some of my posts. Good catch.

Originally posted by Robtard
You want to lower the risk of HIV, wear a condom, have fewer partners, be more sensible etc. Circumcisions have also been around A LOT longer than the 20th century.

But you still believe God created man, no? Ergo, God created the foreskin as part of man.

yes, i do... here's a site i found about circumcision:

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/menshealth/204651.html

Putting aside the religious reasons for childhood circumcision, there is a body of medical evidence that backs the procedure and is behind the large numbers performed around the world and especially in America.

Originally posted by dyajeep
yes, i do... here's a site i found about circumcision:

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/menshealth/204651.html

Putting aside the religious reasons for childhood circumcision, [b]there is a body of medical evidence that backs the procedure and is behind the large numbers performed around the world and especially in America. [/B]

Notice how none of that "evidence" was cited. You also should have added the: "these data are not generally seen as sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision, even though the medical benefits of circumcision could be argued to exceed the risks of the procedure."

So why remove a healthy part of the body that serves a purpose which God created in the first place? Going from the POV that man is God's creation.

ok, let's see... how about this?

http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

What are the benefits of circumcision?

There is some evidence that circumcision has health benefits, including:

* A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
* A reduced risk of some sexually transmitted diseases in men.
* Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
* Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
* Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).

Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean.

Originally posted by dyajeep
ok, let's see... how about this?

http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

[b]What are the benefits of circumcision?

There is some evidence that circumcision has health benefits, including:

* A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
* A reduced risk of some sexually transmitted diseases in men.
* Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
* Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
* Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).

Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean. [/B]

Too add: How about the fact that sex is like 10x better

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Too add: How about the fact that sex is like 10x better

😆 👆

Originally posted by dyajeep
ok, let's see... how about this?

http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

[b]What are the benefits of circumcision?

There is some evidence that circumcision has health benefits, including:

* A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
* A reduced risk of some sexually transmitted diseases in men.
* Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
* Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
* Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).

Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean. [/B]

"Note: Some studies show that good hygiene can help prevent certain problems with the penis, including infections and swelling, even if the penis is not circumcised. In addition, using a condom during sex will help prevent STDs and other infections."

What are the risks of circumcision?

Like any surgical procedure, there are risks associated with circumcision. However, this risk is low. Problems associated with circumcision include:

Pain
Risk of bleeding and infection at the site of the circumcision
Irritation of the glans
Increased risk of meatitis (inflammation of the opening of the penis)
Risk of injury to the penis

-

Anyhow, do you think God made a design flaw?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Too add: How about the fact that sex is like 10x better

Originally posted by Robtard
Anyhow, do you think God made a design flaw?

i don't think it's a flaw, but i'd like to think it was made that way... anyway, the law of circumcision was only imposed on the Israelites in the time of Moses... when the New Testament came, circumcision should never be an issue... well, it did became an issue due to the transition from Old Testament to New, but after that, it was agreed that circumcision is not mandatory... 🙂

Originally posted by red g jacks
how do you know?

Thats a personal question. 😄

it seems like the only way you could know is to have not been circumcised as baby but then later as an adult decide to have it circumcised and then compare the sex you had before vs after the operation.

Originally posted by red g jacks
it seems like the only way you could know is to have not been circumcised as baby but then later as an adult decide to have it circumcised and then compare the sex you had before vs after the operation.

Or you could know someone with a story like that.