DS Sentry vs. LF Rulk

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Current Sentry is mentally stable. Like he stated to Thor he cleansed him of his Agoraphobia when he put him into the Sun. His mental state affects him heavily. Allows him to go from stalemating WWH and destroying a fair amount of a city to being able to destroy entire worlds while fighting Genis-Vell. Or doing things such as toying with Thor or like what he did in UA #21 with Exitar.

Originally posted by quanchi112 \
Absolutely. Why else do you think the Sentry is easier to effect in combat than the Void ?

I would since he couldn't even do that to Thor and got beaten up by the Hulk.

LF Rulk stomped Thor, who then attacked him while he was fighting Hulk and eventually overheated weakening himself. Peak Rulk who was killing skyfathers, and easily killing heralds was only eventually stopped by Galactus.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Sentry was always capable of feats like that. You don't base fights on collateral damage either.

Sure he is always capable but he wont always be able to accomplish them feats. Like I stated when he fought Hulk he was at a low point so he wasn't immediately able to exert such power. And it isn't collateral damage, in his fight with Genis-Vell they were capable of destroying entire worlds while still holding back. Neither is Robert destroying city blocks. Sure as a by product it destroys them but it's his power that allows him to do so.

Just like Hulk is capable of many things, but I doubt Professor Hulk is capable of what WBH could do. Note for the most part I was arguing on the premise of the Hulk Smash Avengers mini in which if I remember correctly Loeb had no part in. I was debating on that Rulk.

As you will notice I mentioned Sentry blitzing Rulk as Thor beat him second time. I have to say during that message I was confused and thought that it was the same Rulk i.e non Loeb Hulk. But unfortunately it was after the 15 minute time I have to edit the message so I couldn't really say otherwise, also where is the scan showing where he overheated (not accusing you of lying I am just interested in seeing it).

Surely if he is capable of punching out the Watcher, taking on the Surfer then him fighting the Hulk then getting attacked from behind by Thor should be a non issue.

If in the same comic he can knock a Watcher for six and dominate the Surfer but then apparently exhaust himself that way then it makes it impossible to decide.

If it's true that implies that you're saying Thor's victory isn't as good as it is shown to be.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Sure he is always capable but he wont always be able to accomplish them feats. Like I stated when he fought Hulk he was at a low point so he wasn't immediately able to exert such power. And it isn't collateral damage, in his fight with Genis-Vell they were capable of destroying entire worlds while still holding back. Neither is Robert destroying city blocks. Sure as a by product it destroys them but it's his power that allows him to do so.

Just like Hulk is capable of many things, but I doubt Professor Hulk is capable of what WBH could do. Note for the most part I was arguing on the premise of the Hulk Smash Avengers mini in which if I remember correctly Loeb had no part in. I was debating on that Rulk.

As you will notice I mentioned Sentry blitzing Rulk as Thor beat him second time. I have to say during that message I was confused and thought that it was the same Rulk i.e non Loeb Hulk. But unfortunately it was after the 15 minute time I have to edit the message so I couldn't really say otherwise, also wher eis the scan showing where he overheated (not accusing you of lying I am just interested in seeing it).

Loeb didn't write Hulk smash Avengers #5 but it was set during Loebs era and even though he didn't write it Rulk STILL pwned Sentry and the Avengers. Imagine if Loeb DID write it.

As for Rulk overheating it happened in Hulk #6.

I'm not saying DS Sentry CAN'T win just to be clear, but based on how Loeb had Rulk effortlessly defeat everyone from Watchers to Surfer to Elders to even punking Dormammu, plus the fact he already beat Sentry then it's more than likely he would here too imo.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
You haven 't proven that though it's just your opinion saying Sentry was weakened in WWH, evidence suggests he exerted more power than ever against Hulk not the other way round. He didn't actually destroy any planets when fighting Genis iirc it was mostly lip service.

Sentry being weakened in WWH was proven many times. It is also very obvious to notice when he is weakened. The evidence of him exerting more power then ever was also just statements. All you have to do is look at his feats, his history, and how his powers work to know when he is weakened or not...

Originally posted by bbrem123
Sentry being weakened in WWH was proven many times. It is also very obvious to notice when he is weakened. The evidence of him exerting more power then ever was also just statements. All you have to do is look at his feats, his history, and how his powers work to know when he is weakened or not...

Bob was crying in his bed before he fought the Collective of superheroes for example yet once he overcame his fear he was back to normal and was able to match its might.

In WWH once he overcame his fear he was fine. Sentry HIMSELF stated it felt good to "finally let go" and unleash his power, plus MULTIPLE statements he was going all out. Multiple statements including a couple from the character himself can't be dismissed just because the planet didn't explode.

Wait a minute. This version of Rulk OWNED Sentry and the Avengers. It was a massacre. Rulk stomps.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Sentry being weakened in WWH was proven many times. It is also very obvious to notice when he is weakened. The evidence of him exerting more power then ever was also just statements. All you have to do is look at his feats, his history, and how his powers work to know when he is weakened or not...

Nothing was stated that Sentry was weakened.

Originally posted by bbrem123
All you have to do is look at his feats, his history, and how his powers work to know when he is weakened or not...

Originally posted by carver9
Nothing was stated that Sentry was weakened.

First of all you are wrong, you should know more than anyone given that you're a Hulk fan what happened to Sentry.

You would know that Reed and Stark got him to stop a hurricane in Colombia as part of his therapy, which was to help him get used to being in the outside (as Agoraphobia gives him the phobia of being outside) and that his next task was the Hulk, Robert didn't want to help Hulk because he was his friend

You can even see yourself from the way he is acting that he looks unwell. He even says the last time he saw Hulk was when the Void broke his bones and then Robert found out he was the void. Obviously showing that he is afraid he could damage Hulk in some way. But Reed and Stark are trying to get him to fight by saying the Hulk needs him.

As he transforms into the Sentry as he is about to go out to stop the Hulk he retreats back into the house and his illness starts to kick in. Even the president attempts to get Bob to help but there is nothing they can do. Even the woman spekaing says

"He's scared of the world. Terrified of himself. He needs to be reassured every step of the way what we want him to do is the right thing to do"

So they obviously know he is in a state.

We then find out he has been standing in the corridor of his house for 29 hours, I am pretty sure if he was stable he would have charged straight in but again this shows he was mentally unstable.

Next we have Robert saying that he is scared because of his Agoraphobia, saying that they will have to handle it themselves. Another pointer that he isn't right mentally.

Then Stark speaks frankly to Robert, even in the scan you can see he is rubbing his eyes saying if he lost control. Stark even agrees saying it scares him too but he has no choice. And that he has too play god.

Which when Robert sees that the Hulk is condemning the heroes to death is when Robert snaps and goes in to attack

This album is the first part.

http://imgur.com/a/SZIEU

This picture shows Hulk condemning the heroes

http://imgur.com/a/aksKz

So Carver I don't see why you're saying this when it isn't true. Being mentally ill is a huge part of Roberts character which is heavily played into in this story. So by denying that you are simply wrong.

Scans of Rulk beating Sentry? o.O

Originally posted by The Sorrow
It was more than likely butthurt that he lost to Hulk lets be honest.

Bob was crying in his bed before he fought the Collective of superheroes for example yet once he overcame his fear he was back to normal and was able to match its might.

In WWH once he overcame his fear he was fine. Sentry HIMSELF stated it felt good to "finally let go" and unleash his power, plus MULTIPLE statements he was going all out. Multiple statements including a couple from the character himself can't be dismissed just because the planet didn't explode.

It wasn't butthurt that he according to you lost to Hulk when he in fact stalemated him.

Again the fact that he is crying on his bed shows that he was weakened. It's completely different to when he fights Thor in UA when he is stable. You haven't even got proof that he got back to normal. He has hardly ever been back to normal in his whole career. That's the point of his character. A human empowered with godlike abilities but is shown how a human would cope with them.

Yes he did state it was good to let go. Because he was losing control like he said to Stark. Robert lost control as he wasn't mentally stable. That's why in UA he didn't lose control Thor instead he subdued him, only when Thor resisted in their 2nd fight did he decide to end him bar that crappy worm.

Hulk even says to Robert you don't want this fight.

And even says as Sentry says how does it feel to let go that Sentry can be a Saviour or a Destroyer. And that it was his choice. You like Carver have seemed to forget that his illness is integral to his character. Like the Power Cosmic is to the Silver Surfer or the whole gamma incident was to Bruce, they're nothing without it.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
You haven 't proven that though it's just your opinion saying Sentry was weakened in WWH, evidence suggests he exerted more power than ever against Hulk not the other way round. He didn't actually destroy any planets when fighting Genis iirc it was mostly lip service.

Loeb didn't write Hulk smash Avengers #5 but it was set during Loebs era and even though he didn't write it Rulk STILL pwned Sentry and the Avengers. Imagine if Loeb DID write it.

As for Rulk overheating it happened in Hulk #6.

I'm not saying DS Sentry CAN'T win just to be clear, but based on how Loeb had Rulk effortlessly defeat everyone from Watchers to Surfer to Elders to even punking Dormammu, plus the fact he already beat Sentry then it's more than likely he would here too imo.

I replied to you and Carver now displaying how he was weakened.

I never actually knew it was still in the Loeb era so thanks for that. Helps me to understand it a bit more now.

Not that it matters, because no matter how weak or strong Sentry was, this Death Sentry is >> him.

you forgot an extra >

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not that it matters, because no matter how weak or strong Sentry was, this Death Sentry is >> him.

Yeah that is true, probably up there as one of if not the most powerful due to him not being Agoraphobic.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
It wasn't butthurt that he according to you lost to Hulk when he in fact stalemated him.

Again the fact that he is crying on his bed shows that he was weakened. It's completely different to when he fights Thor in UA when he is stable. You haven't even got proof that he got back to normal. He has hardly ever been back to normal in his whole career. That's the point of his character. A human empowered with godlike abilities but is shown how a human would cope with them.

Yes he did state it was good to let go. Because he was losing control like he said to Stark. Robert lost control as he wasn't mentally stable. That's why in UA he didn't lose control Thor instead he subdued him, only when Thor resisted in their 2nd fight did he decide to end him bar that crappy worm.

Hulk even says to Robert you don't want this fight.

And even says as Sentry says how does it feel to let go that Sentry can be a Saviour or a Destroyer. And that it was his choice. You like Carver have seemed to forget that his illness is integral to his character. Like the Power Cosmic is to the Silver Surfer or the whole gamma incident was to Bruce, they're nothing without it.

All you've done is reference Bobs fear of going outside which was a part of his character since the beginning really and brought to forefront in Mighty Avengers. This is the same Sentry who stated as being the most powerful hero on Earth, and had some ridiculously hax feats despite his mental instability, it didn't "lower" his power level. Sentry lost control AFTER he told Hulk he is the only being he can unleash his full power against, and blasting him around New York. This is also backed up by multiple character statements and the whole build up to that climactic battle.

Sentry has ALWAYS been unstable, this current DS Sentry is clearly not all there either. However as he better understands himself and his powerset he "seemingly" becomes more powerful. I don't believe DS Sentry is more powerful (or I've yet to see a feat that has convinced me this is the case) as he has ALWAYS had the potential to be above the herald tier and at times displayed this power. You could say he is living up to that potential on a more consistent basis now that he understands his abilties better but he doesn't (yet) seem any more powerful than before imo. He beat Thor easily in Siege aswell.

During WWH he took on Hulk who was just below Worldbreaker level and fought to pretty much a standstill, Hercules was dropped in THREE punches. It amazes me that some people are still salty about his performance and attempt to downplay it when he did FAR better than ANY other high herald on Earth would've done. Prior to Dark Avengers, that was easily his most impressive EVER showing on panel.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
This new version of Sentry being more assured doesn't invalidate every previous showing which is what you seem to be implying. They are almost 2 different characters.

All you've done is reference Bobs fear of going outside which was a part of his character since the beginning really and brought to forefront in Mighty Avengers. This is the same Sentry who stated as being the most powerful hero on Earth, and had some ridiculously hax feats despite his mental instability, it didn't "lower" his power level. Sentry lost control AFTER he told Hulk he is the only being he can unleash his full power against, and blasting him around New York. This is also backed up by multiple character statements and the whole build up to that climactic battle.

Sentry has ALWAYS been unstable, this current DS Sentry is clearly not all there either. However as he better understands himself and his powerset he "seemingly" becomes more powerful. I don't believe DS Sentry is more powerful (or I've yet to see a feat that has convinced me this is the case) as he has ALWAYS had the potential to be above the herald tier and at times displayed this power. You could say he is living up to that potential on a more consistent basis now that he understands his abilties better but he doesn't (yet) seem any more powerful than before imo. He beat Thor easily in Siege aswell.

During WWH he took on Hulk who was just below Worldbreaker level and fought to pretty much a standstill, Hercules was dropped in THREE punches. It amazes me that some people are still salty about his performance and attempt to downplay it when he did FAR better than ANY other high herald on Earth would've done. Prior to Dark Avengers, that was easily his most impressive EVER showing on panel.

I didn't say it invalidated previous showings, so you're wrong there.

I didn't just say about his fear of going outside, I wrote a huge post explaining everything but you have for some reason skipped through it and decided to respond on one thing, so you either haven't read it or you have and your choosing to misunderstand therefore trying to put your argument forward.

Again his mental stability does lower his power level, if you didn't know that here it is for confirmation.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189038-1234124.jpg

So you again either haven't researched the Sentry or you're choosing to be ignore it for the sake of the debate.

I know Sentry has always been unstable, I never said otherwise. In fact I said this.

"He has hardly ever been back to normal in his whole career."

DS Sentry would be the most stable of the versions of Sentry currently (like I said due to him not having Agoraphobia) if you notice he screams I am Apocalypse so he may be still slightly affected but again I never stated otherwise, just said he is the most stable version currently. So again you are generalizing without any proof. If you don't believe he is more powerful then I truly cannot help you. In the scans I showed the Sentry states that the Agoraphobia is what worries him and he could lose control. Robert states that in UA Thor cleansed him of his Agoraphobic nightmare. He also doesn't have the Void persona inside him either. Only Death so most of the things he says i.e "I AM APOCALYPSE" are most likely driven by his Death persona with it guiding him to human protection. I can only suggest for you to see feats that he has performed otherwise I can't help you any more than that.

In Siege that was Voidtry and both times both DS Sentry and Voidtry performed great feats.

DS Sentry ko'd Thor with heat vision, then on their 2nd fight he ko'd him with punches. You seem to know your Voidtry feats so I don't need to explain.

I agree that they fought to a stalemate like I said in the beginning Sentry was weakened and luckily for Hulk it was a stalemate. If Sentry was more mentally focused i.e Genis-Vell Sentry then Hulk would be nought but ash.

Again Hercules wasn't putting up a fight, at first he was protecting Amadeus Cho. In the end he was going to join Hulk and Hercules was just saying "no" and "no more Hulk" as Hercules wasn't putting up a fight. If Hercules was going to take WWH on then it wouldn't have ended like it did. Remember Herc didn't set out to defeat Banner but to join him.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
First of all you are wrong, you should know more than anyone given that you're a Hulk fan what happened to Sentry.

You would know that Reed and Stark got him to stop a hurricane in Colombia as part of his therapy, which was to help him get used to being in the outside (as Agoraphobia gives him the phobia of being outside) and that his next task was the Hulk, Robert didn't want to help Hulk because he was his friend

You can even see yourself from the way he is acting that he looks unwell. He even says the last time he saw Hulk was when the Void broke his bones and then Robert found out he was the void. Obviously showing that he is afraid he could damage Hulk in some way. But Reed and Stark are trying to get him to fight by saying the Hulk needs him.

As he transforms into the Sentry as he is about to go out to stop the Hulk he retreats back into the house and his illness starts to kick in. Even the president attempts to get Bob to help but there is nothing they can do. Even the woman spekaing says

"He's scared of the world. Terrified of himself. He needs to be reassured every step of the way what we want him to do is the right thing to do"

So they obviously know he is in a state.

We then find out he has been standing in the corridor of his house for 29 hours, I am pretty sure if he was stable he would have charged straight in but again this shows he was mentally unstable.

Next we have Robert saying that he is scared because of his Agoraphobia, saying that they will have to handle it themselves. Another pointer that he isn't right mentally.

Then Stark speaks frankly to Robert, even in the scan you can see he is rubbing his eyes saying if he lost control. Stark even agrees saying it scares him too but he has no choice. And that he has too play god.

Which when Robert sees that the Hulk is condemning the heroes to death is when Robert snaps and goes in to attack

This album is the first part.

http://imgur.com/a/SZIEU

This picture shows Hulk condemning the heroes

http://imgur.com/a/aksKz

So Carver I don't see why you're saying this when it isn't true. Being mentally ill is a huge part of Roberts character which is heavily played into in this story. So by denying that you are simply wrong.

But yet he goes all out against the Hulk and admits that he isn't holding back on more than one occasion. Telling Hulk how good it feels to finally let loose, not worry about killing the people around him. SMH. He was not depowered. The showings before that where he actually cared about the damage he caused contradicts what happened in New York when he nearly wiped out the entire city and was hitting Hulk with everything he had to the point that he reverted back to Robert.

no point in arguing these point with Sorrow or Carver. They think WWH Sentry was him at his strongest. They also ignore how his powers work and fluctuate. They like to ignore the context of the stories.

It amazes me how some over hype Hulk.

Originally posted by carver9
But yet he goes all out against the Hulk and admits that he isn't holding back on more than one occasion. Telling Hulk how good it feels to finally let loose, not worry about killing the people around him. SMH. He was not depowered. The showings before that where he actually cared about the damage he caused contradicts what happened in New York when he nearly wiped out the entire city and was hitting Hulk with everything he had to the point that he reverted back to Robert.

Yes Carver because like I mentioned he was losing control. Not because he wasn't holding back he was losing control. I wrote a whole huge post explaining the preceding events and you like The_Sorrow, seem to be disregarding probably the hugest point for the whole Robert Reynolds character to increase the showing of the Hulk.

He was depowered you are now choosing to be ignorant, read the post I made and I mean read it. Don't look at it then disagree because a character you like is mentioned. Not I never lowballed Hulk I explained the story, you are just choosing to warp the outcome to further suit your ends.

The reason he done that was because and again he was losing control. If he is mentally unstable he at a greater risk like said in a scan so don't say I am wrong.

This is how the fight ended. Sentry was at the point of killing everything and everyone and said to Hulk that he can't seem to stop (i.e losing control due to him being unstable) and Hulk says "Saviour, Destroyer, what matters is th choice you make" or something like that. Afterwards one last massive punch was thrown and WWH fell back to Bruce and thanks in part to Hulk he convinced Robert to be the Saviour.

If he hadn't then Hulk would've been knocked into Banner and Sentry would have still been Sentry waiting to pummel Banner to death.

This debate will end the same way as me and you in the Sentry vs Starbrand thread. It will end up with you threatening to leave if I message you again then you will concede. Stop mixing up the story to paint Hulk as the main thing when that wasn't the case.