The True Reason Vader Lost to Kenobi

"There's still good in him. I know there's still good..."

You noticed Anakin had a look of confusion on his face before fighting his master. He wasn't in it like with Dooku; his eyes went from yellow to normal on Mustafar as his "non-conflicted" hatred came and went. This is evidenced by him having normal eyes when shedding tears of regret or remorse.

It was this "inner conflict". This is why he couldn't overpower his master in the Force push struggle. He wasn't entirely without feelings other than hate, he had remorse in there. The dark side could not fully permeate his heart during that battle, nor could it ever as Vader, with Padme's death on his conscience as a constant source of remorse.

As Vader he could kill his emotions to do what was necessary, but unlike Sidious, his will to utilize the Dark Side was not pure. The dark side would have taken his power to the max had his will been pure.

Deja vu.

Meh, I'd say the number one reason is Kenobi knew his style inside and out.

Originally posted by Q99
Meh, I'd say the number one reason is Kenobi knew his style inside and out.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's a combination of both reasons.

Yep.

True, however Obi-Wan had hesitation as well. Remember the last part of the fight ;

Anakin : You underestimate my power !
Obi-Wan : Don't try it !

Pretty sure Anakin lost because runny mascara kept getting in his eyes.

Originally posted by Q99
Meh, I'd say the number one reason is Kenobi knew his style inside and out.

Addendum; as of ROTS, Anakin was stated to be of a higher combat rank [Class 7 Jedi] than Kenobi [Class 6] in the "making of" documentary.

Originally posted by Marco1907
True, however Obi-Wan had hesitation as well. Remember the last part of the fight ;

Anakin : You underestimate my power !
Obi-Wan : Don't try it !

Kenobi was hesitant to kill, but Obi-wan was playing a game of hit and run; conserving his energy, utilizing guerrilla tactics via the terrain, etc. while Vader was too disoriented to be capable of utilizing his full tactical acumen.

As of the films, Vader's unlocked strength in the Force was greater than Dooku's during the rare occasions that his hatred was uninhibited by his inner conflict.

Not really, when you get among masters and the higher ups, styles matter a lot less. Here, power and skill come into play, and Kenobi thought more clearly and was much less arrogant.

As to Kenobi not holding back, have you read the novel? Kenobi was trying to talk Vader down until the very end, at which point he leaves him to burn to death.
Yoda had said it, flat-out: Allow such attachments to pass out of
one's life, a Jedi must, but Obi-Wan had never let himself
understand. He had argued for Anakin, made excuses, covered for
him again and again and again; all the while this attachment he
denied even feeling had blinded him to the dark path his best
friend walked.
Obi-Wan knew there was, in the end, only one answer for attachment.
He let it go. -Revenge of the Sith novelization.

This isn't look like a hesitation though ;

Also Yoda's statement ; Yoda was certain about Obi-Wan's victory

Yoda was dead wrong about both of those assertions.

Going to have say Yoda was entirely inaccurate in his predictions there

Originally posted by Oneness
No, Vader was equal in terms of saber skill.

Yep.. "Blade for blade they were identical.. Like two halves of the same warrior.."

Originally posted by Oneness
It was just that Kenobi's Soresu was the kryptonite to Vader's Djem So

Nah.

If that was true Kenobi would have stomped Vader. But they fought equally for several minutes. Because they were equally skilled, and even though Vader was "stronger", Kenobi's Soresu compensates for that by giving ground.

Originally posted by Oneness
similarly to how Anakin's Djem So was kryptonite to Dooku's Makashi;

No bro.

Dooku lost to Anakin because Dooku himself couldn't handle the full power Skywalker was unleashing, especially after having fought 2 opponents and already revitalizing his reserves several times. Had nothing to do with Djem So vs Makashi though.

Plo Koon's a Djem So practitioner, but he's not beating Dooku.

Originally posted by Oneness
and Luke's Djem So was kryptonite to Vader's improvised [for quadruple mechanical limbs and limited range of vision/balance] style.

No, no, no.

Luke wasn't yet trained well enough to take on the likes of Vader. No matter what style he was using.

Originally posted by Marco1907
This isn't look like a hesitation though ;

Dude, there's a huge difference between not wanting to die and trying to kill someone, despite what the media portrays these days.

Also Yoda's statement ; Yoda was certain about Obi-Wan's victory

That, or it was was because Little Orphan Ani had more then a few screws loose during the entire fight.

Originally posted by NTJack0
Little Orphan Ani

No saber style counters another, Dooku lost because Anakin completely outclassed him in raw power and speed.

The novel itself states that Anakin was moving faster and faster as well as hitting harder and harder, and that Dooku's energy was diminishing well Anakin's was growing.

Dooku lost because he fought the chosen one, not because makashi is weak to Djem

Originally posted by Board Walker
No saber style counters another, Dooku lost because Anakin completely outclassed him in raw power and speed.

The novel itself states that Anakin was moving faster and faster as well as hitting harder and harder, and that Dooku's energy was diminishing well Anakin's was growing.

Dooku lost because he fought the chosen one, not because makashi is weak to Djem

Ah no, Dooku is weak against physical attacks, he has no decent physical feats (except kicking someone via fencing) or any physical resistance feat. Not to mention Savage make him fly with just one stroke.

And this is very natural, he was 80 years old. Dooku was not perfect.

Originally posted by Board Walker

Dooku lost because he fought the chosen one, not because makashi is weak to Djem

👆

Originally posted by Marco1907
Ah no, Dooku is weak against physical attacks,

Nah. That's a big misconception.

Originally posted by Marco1907
he has no decent physical feats (except kicking someone via fencing)

Well we are talking here about Physical attacks during a Saber fight.

And Dooku's kick against Anakin is amongst the most powerful kicks we've seen in the Saga (especially considering the opponent he did that too). I mean he sent him flying across the damn room, and left him floored and helpless for a good 10 seconds.

So how's that for a "decent" physical feat?

Originally posted by Marco1907
or any physical resistance feat.

Well that's hard to judge because he doesn't get hit often. But remember in "Crisis on Naboo" when Anakin kicked him and he tripped over the steps behind him, and then choked him.. Well once Dooku got Anakin off him, he got back up immediately, and he was just fine. He wasn't panting for air, or rubbing his body where he got kicked. So he took Skywalker's the physical attacks pretty well if you ask me.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Not to mention Savage make him fly with just one stroke.

You seem to be really obsessed over that 1 blow of Opress that sent Dooku flying. Opress is a physical beast who you have to be focused on and completely ready for. He disarmed Kenobi in a few Saber strokes in "Revenge". And he also disarmed Ventress in the same episode.

At least Dooku was fighting 2 opponents, and was only holding onto his Saber with one hand and only dropped his weapon when he hit the wall behind him in a cramped space.

Originally posted by Marco1907
And this is very natural, he was 80 years old. Dooku was not perfect.

Which is why he depends on "Force Enhanced" strength like Yoda and Sidious do. So if he's using up too much in his Force reserves by fighting mutiple opponents, then it may be easier for a strong opponent to get the better of him.

@darth power

Dooku kicked Anakin via fencing, he never kicks people without bending the blade, the feats I am talking about is physical strength & martial arts, not kicking via finding an opening

Remember the part Anakin kicked Dooku in RotS, he kicked casually with his rage, thats what I am talking about.

Sidious has very decent physical feats. You can see it here ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7hBZNsPnyg

Sidious contend with Maul & Savage in terms of physical strength. Deflected Savage's attacks with ease, tanked Maul's kick and Savage's headbutt, then he kicked Savage etc.

As for Yoda, he kicked Sidious (casually) in comic book, so thats a very solid feat as well.

Edit, here is the Yoda's physical strength feat :

http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/Karasakal/StarWars-CloneWarsAdventuresVolume3-054_zps65ebea22.jpg

http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/Karasakal/StarWars-CloneWarsAdventuresVolume3-056_zps18fa8486.jpg

Transporting a heavy weaponry with ease.