Ferguson Riots

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
The riots are an issue that need to be dealt with and not glossed over. Our reactions to those uninvolved in every situation needs to be dealt with too. Your right, there are issues with Us police But it is in no way current worse then the problems in the black community that are self inflicted And our refusal to deal with it just makes it get worse and worse and causes more and more issues to happen.

The cops used to be worse, but that isn't the case now. And we need to deal with both them and our own violence and destruction of our community. Fighting the institution will be meaningless if we have no home to go back to.

No one glosses over the riots. They will be dealt with to the extend of the law as always, rioters won't get away with it as long as they can be prosecuted.

Yet, people will continue to get away with murdering black people in the name of their safety, because that issue is not addressed whatsoever. Look at the bullshit Oneness posted. The system doesn't work fair and just, it targets and victimises minorities (in the US mainly black people and latinos) and protects and further a white supremacist status quo.

At any rate there's a lot of peaceful protests that are completely glossed over as well.

As an aside

Originally posted by Lestov16
As far as I can tell, the problem comes from a predominant culture based upon shallow materialism and superficiality, glorification of crime, and demeaning misogyny, combined with a close minded belief in religion which closes their imagination from the mind-expanding questions of nature and thus dilutes their desire for intelligence

How is that any ****ing different from "white" culture?

[edit]I also don't really agree with the trope that the issues within black communities are self inflicted, they don't exist in a vacuum, and there's a lot of shitty societal elements that black communities can't escape being affected by.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No one glosses over the riots. They will be dealt with to the extend of the law as always, rioters won't get away with it as long as they can be prosecuted.

I mean addressed by the black community. We need to deal with our actions as well. This a chance to take both on once again.

I can't speak too accurately about all of the states, but this area is my home and I know pretty well what we act like. We don't ever want to address our issues and we gloss over our violence. Unless it happens to specifically one our own friends and relatives.

We will not address the riots, just like we never want to own up to our issues. We'll just ***** that people got arrested for it

Originally posted by Bardock42

[edit]I also don't really agree with the trope that the issues within black communities are self inflicted, they don't exist in a vacuum, and there's a lot of shitty societal elements that black communities can't escape being affected by.

I've always said its more complicated then that. But we do help the problems grow by our refusal to try and deal with it. And just cry about being victims even in situations where we aren't.

There are problems caused by white society and it planted the seeds to begin with. But we have to cut it down ourselves and not let it grow while hoping they'll back off.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Riots are bad. Everyone agrees with that. The structural racism of the US Police is a hundred times worse though, and I will not put up with people making the riots the issue when the real issue is the racism of the people in power.

Racist ass cops is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Black America being comprised of retards is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Neither issue is being glossed over.

Well, like I definitely think it is a good idea for black communities to address the issues they face, however since I am white, I mostly see this from the POV of white people using it as an excuse to not at all considering our shitty culture that actually caused all that crap. Not just the racism and white supremacy that makes it okay for authority figure to harass (and in certain circumstances injure or kill) black people, but also the bad aspects of black culture that have been directly caused by the way blacks have been historically treated.

People pretend everything is fine today, just like they pretended everything was alright during the civil rights movement, just like they pretended everything was alright during the civil war, just like they pretended everything was alright when people where bought and sold like chattel, and we need to stop doing that.

This is a convenient excuse that white people use, and I don't care for it, it's ****ing bullshit, we should clean up our culture that causes so much suffering and not pretend like everything is fine with how life is, and it's just these angry black people messing themselves up with no fault of white culture.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Contrary to what you may think, Human beings are generally capable of drawing separate but equally valid conclusions from a situation without marginalizing either one.

Racist ass cops is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Black America being comprised of retards is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Neither issue is being glossed over.

As someone very much part of white culture, I can assure you that racist ass cops is a problem being glossed over perfectly fine.

As someone very much apart of black culture, I can assure you that Black America being comprised of retards is a problem being glossed over perfectly fine.

However, neither problem is being glossed over due to acknowledgement of the other problem.

Actually, racist ass cops is definitely in large part glossed over by "White" America because of the claim that the problem is really "Black America being comprised of retards"....so....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, like I definitely think it is a good idea for black communities to address the issues they face, however since I am white, I mostly see this from the POV of white people using it as an excuse to not at all considering our shitty culture that actually caused all that crap. Not just the racism and white supremacy that makes it okay for authority figure to harass (and in certain circumstances injure or kill) black people, but also the bad aspects of black culture that have been directly caused by the way blacks have been historically treated.

People pretend everything is fine today, just like they pretended everything was alright during the civil rights movement, just like they pretended everything was alright during the civil war, just like they pretended everything was alright when people where bought and sold like chattel, and we need to stop doing that.

This is a convenient excuse that white people use, and I don't care for it, it's ****ing bullshit, we should clean up our culture that causes so much suffering and not pretend like everything is fine with how life is, and it's just these angry black people messing themselves up with no fault of white culture.

I get it, I really do. And it does need to be addressed and and handled. but as a black man who in this same community we are talking about sees us ignore all the problems we do and actually add to it and allow it to fester long after we realized that the government won't come fix it. We need to deal with both. I've seen cops kill black people here for nothing and get the expected outrage from us and in some cases in get killed in return. But I've also seen a guy I actually knew gun down city council and all of us ignore the victims and their family and just cry that he was shot down and literally silence or harm any black person in the community who condemned his action. I've seen us refuse to deal with the criminal element taking more and more of our youth and us not want to openly speak about what we are doing to help them get stronger and bigger.

A lot of our problems were caused or enforced by society and racist police. But we aren't doing much to take control of our own communities. If we know we won't get help we have to not only condemn the system but take control for ourselves. We have to change things, we have to try to push our people for better. Instead of just moving away and acting like nothing was wrong when we actually get something. We have to be parents, we have to be a community. We have to not hate each other while complaining about what whites do. Taking on both at once is hard. But we have to do it, we must not let it get farther and not let the very blacks who destroy our community think we are own their side.

Like tupac said "step back, watch 'em kill each other" we want to criticize any who leave and behave different but in reality we hate each other.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Actually, racist ass cops is definitely in large part glossed over by "White" America because of the claim that the problem is really "Black America being comprised of retards"....so....

Does it bother you that people in this thread are discussing retarded black America more than racist ass cops?

Originally posted by Tzeentch
And the inverse is also true. ...So...

These facts acknowledged and hopefully things to change?

I feel like you started this particular tangent of conversation, really....

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
I get it, I really do. And it does need to be addressed and and handled. but as a black man who in this same community we are talking about sees us ignore all the problems we do and actually add to it and allow it to fester long after we realized that the government won't come fix it. We need to deal with both. I've seen cops kill black people here for nothing and get the expected outrage from us and in some cases in get killed in return. But I've also seen a guy I actually knew gun down city council and all of us ignore the victims and their family and just cry that he was shot down and literally silence or harm any black person in the community who condemned his action. I've seen us refuse to deal with the criminal element taking more and more of our youth and us not want to openly speak about what we are doing to help them get stronger and bigger.

A lot of our problems were caused or enforced by society and racist police. But we aren't doing much to take control of our own communities. If we know we won't get help we have to not only condemn the system but take control for ourselves. We have to change things, we have to try to push our people for better. Instead of just moving away and acting like nothing was wrong when we actually get something. We have to be parents, we have to be a community. We have to not hate each other while complaining about what whites do. Taking on both at once is hard. But we have to do it, we must not let it get farther and not let the very blacks who destroy our community think we are own their side.

Like tupac said "step back, watch 'em kill each other" we want to criticize any who leave and behave different but in reality we hate each other.

Well, that's fair enough. I don't really think it's my place to judge this, as I know little about it. But I just really want white people to not use this argument as an excuse to not consider or deal with the problems in white culture. A lot of white people will treat all of this like a "black issue", and that's just not the case. And if a white person is trying to gloss over that I find it extremely distasteful, and I feel that's exactly what Oneness was doing.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
And the inverse is also true. ...So...

Does it bother you that people in this thread are discussing retarded black America more than racist ass cops?

Speaking of that. I'm focusing more on it because it's more relevant to me to have to deal with the aftermath we put ourselves through. Like I said, I've had this happen in my actual town before. And us not want to address it. I've had both white friends distant themselves from me as a result of racial tensions and been into fights with my black neighbors and threatened, over my disagreements with our actions. The fact that I have to be careful taking kids outside is a pressing issue with me.

Originally posted by Tzeentch

Does it bother you that people in this thread are discussing retarded black America more than racist ass cops?

No, not that in particular, like I said in my last post, it bothers me when white people use it as an excuse to gloss over the issue of structural racism (which is the part "we" (white people) should try to fix). I don't have an issue with people discussing black communities and black culture independently of that.

Though I found some of Lestov's arguments sounded extremely racist.

Originally posted by Bardock42
These facts acknowledged and hopefully things to change?

Could you rephrase this? I don't follow.

And, nah. You more or less started the dialogue when you started complaining about the current on-going discussion about retarded Black America.

No, not that in particular, like I said in my last post, it bothers me when white people use it as an excuse to gloss over the issue of structural racism (which is the part "we" (white people) should try to fix). I don't have an issue with people discussing black communities and black culture independently of that.

Though I found some of Lestov's arguments sounded extremely racist.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Speaking of that. I'm focusing more on it because it's more relevant to me to have to deal with the aftermath we put ourselves through. Like I said, I've had this happen in my actual town before. And us not want to address it. I've had both white friends distant themselves from me as a result of racial tensions and been into fights with my black neighbors and threatened, over my disagreements with our actions. The fact that I have to be careful taking kids outside is a pressing issue with me.

I have similar sentiments. I've been discriminated against by racist people in power many times, but the problems with black culture harms me more immediately and frequently than racist cops.

Also, that the police are mad with power and need to be regulated more strictly is pretty much a foregone conclusion where I live. So, not much to discuss.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, **** this. The police gunned down an unarmed kid after heckling him for being black and on the street (yeah, this guy got killed for jaywalking, surely his race had nothing to do with that). The guy did nothing and they murdered him. So **** this spin. These riots are not a function of "black culture gone mad" it's a function of racist ass cops getting away with their power trips as always.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. As I said, answering injustice within the system by causing anarchic injustice within their own streets, doing nothing to correct the system and only reinforcing it, only reaffirms stereotypes and perpetuates the cycle of stratification that keeps us back.

As I said, get a national rally to advocate a federal requirement for law enforcement (at least on a state level) to wear cameras. Police injustices will decrease really quick.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Also, that the police are mad with power and need to be regulated more strictly is pretty much a foregone conclusion where I live. So, not much to discuss.

I didn't tell you about how I got arrested at the Pride Parade last year for suspicion of stealing some lesbian's Iphone?

Me and three other black dudes I'd never met spent about 30 minutes handcuffed with our faces pressed up against a chain-link fence outside Montgomery BART.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
I didn't tell you about how I got arrested at the Pride Parade last year for suspicion of stealing some lesiab's Iphone?

You certainly did not.

edited with details

They took everything out of my pockets, asked me a bunch of questions and eventually let me go "with a warning".

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, not that in particular, like I said in my last post, it bothers me when white people use it as an excuse to gloss over the issue of structural racism (which is the part "we" (white people) should try to fix). I don't have an issue with people discussing black communities and black culture independently of that.

Though I found some of Lestov's arguments sounded extremely racist.

I do agree that the killing was racial injustice that should be answered for, but how does the destruction of one's community aid that? Why should people be sympathetic towards people that, when confronted with injustice, answer it not through intelligence and higher thinking, but reverting to their primitive animalistic instincts, doing nothing to solve the problem, and pretty much using the opportunity to commit wanton crime?

And I'm not saying all black people fall under this category, but there are those who do, and quite simply, they're making us look bad.