Meetra Surik Vs Vitiate

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Dafuq?!! Keto's illusions are nothing to Zannah, Andeddu, or Wyyrlok.

"Unrivaled in illusory powers and a master of Sith magic, Aleema would sow terror into the minds of the Republic."- TCG

Keto's powers didn't only lay in illusions but they were exceptionally broad and powerful, entire fleets of illusory ships, turning swords into snakes on a mass scale, disintegrating people without even trying.

She endured the strong dark side taint and became stronger for it, she was trained by Nadd himself and received the ancient texts of the Golden Age itself.

Only Nomi and Kun could even defend themselves from her powers.

Perhaps Keto was unrivaled in her time, but Nomi easily resisting Keto's illusions does not compare to Zannah's and Wyyrlok's illusions giving the likes of Bane and Krayt great trouble, despite their own insane mental prowess.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

No he didn't. 😬

Don't change the topic. We are discussing the feat of consuming planets. Darth Sidious never consumed a a planet.
Admit your own limitations, restrictions, failure, weakness, and inferiority.

He didn't absorb the planet's surface, no. He only absorbed the Maasassi in the ritual. The planet's surface was destroyed by the wall of light the Jedi created.

"Knowing he would be defeated, Kun tapped the life forces of all the Massassi to seal and preserve his consciousness within his temple. As a last measure, Kun left behind the night beast, an alchemical creation, to guard his legacy. The Jedi task force succeeded in killing Kun's body, but the assault also laid waste to many of Yavin 4's jungles and killed what few Massassi were left. All that remained of the species were their massive monuments."
--Star Wars Databanks

Look at your double standards. You said earlier Revan only knowing sorcery isn't the same as using it. Now it's different for Kun?
Hell, this is Exar Kun's ghost. A ghost is not an accurate representation of a characters power. Look at Marka Ragnos.

I will let Emperordmb handle this part. 😉

Revan and Meetra weren't. 😐

That wasn't the planet nexus, that was the nexus of the Dark Force Temple.

Then what defeating Nyriss would of been? What? This feat is impressive, but doesn't change her being utterly stomped by the same Sith Lord that Revan one-shotted. [/B]

You... this.. it's absolutely glorious, you wank yourself non-stop and take yourself so seriously, I swear it's like debating with a child, oh wait...

"But the destruction of this planet's surface had sustained this dark man well beyond his years, biding his time in his slumber."

Kun has displayed a TOTAL mastery of Sorcery and canonically amped Kyp Durron whilst on Yavin IV, all of Kyp's Dark Side knowledge and displayed powers at this point were via Kun.

Also Exar Kun's spirit was a literal shadow of his former self, not nearly as powerful as he is in a corporeal form and his abilities in this form were all techniques he had learnt before his ascension.

So yes they do count.

Meetra didn't display half the power she has in previous media.

The Dark Force Temple just like the Dark Temple is simply a focal point for the nexus on Dromund Kaas, you are arguing semantics.

Nyriss defeating a nerfed Meetra is by no means a surprise and the evidence supports my point that she was not at full power here at all, just like every Jedi bar HoT whom had mental defenses against such, also Revan a dual Force user doesn't count in these examples whatsoever.

He studied her for a moment. “I was told you had been cut off from the Force, but I can sense its power in you. I always knew you had great potential, but you have become far greater than I could ever have imagined.”-SWTOR: Revan

Apparently what he could have imagined was far, far, far, less than Nyriss.

Of course the rest of the passage goes on to pretend Kreia was never born, even though she was Revan's master and mentor, so take that as you will.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Perhaps Keto was unrivaled [b]in her time, but Nomi easily resisting Keto's illusions does not compare to Zannah's and Wyyrlok's illusions giving the likes of Bane and Krayt great trouble, despite their own insane mental prowess. [/B]

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nomi protected herself with Battle Meditation a well-known counter to Illusions.

Tell me... did Kun definitively know BM? and if not then how come Keto didn't just overcome Kun with illusions?

"But the destruction of this planet's surface had sustained this dark man well beyond his years, biding his time in his slumber."

Kun has displayed a TOTAL mastery of Sorcery and canonically amped Kyp Durron whilst on Yavin IV, all of Kyp's Dark Side knowledge and displayed powers at this point were via Kun.
Also Exar Kun's spirit was a literal shadow of his former self, not nearly as powerful as he is in a corporeal form and his abilities in this form were all techniques he had learnt before his ascension.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

That's inconsistent with all other sources, including the actual comic itself.

Exar Kun isn't controlling him. So no, it doesn't count. He has knowledge on it, yes, but no feats.
Exar Kun's ghost is depicted as much more powerful then his former self.

Yes, that is called a retcon. 😐 The game was from 2004, it's out-dated.
----- ----- -----
You also forget Meetra was amped by her companions when she soloed Malachor. She drained everyone around her as a wound.

No it's not. The temple was founded by Darth Millennial, far after Vitiate's rule ended. [/B]

Actually none of those sources have a direct statement on what effect the annihilation of the surface had on him.

Wrong on both accounts:

The systems hummed as they returned to life, charging up. Exar Kun had also been betrayed by his supposed partner, the warlord Ulic Qel-Droma. Now Han had betrayed Kyp. Master Skywalker had also betrayed him by failing to teach the appropriate lessons...appropriate defenses against Exar Kun. In his head the voice of the Sith Lord shouted for him to kill Han Solo, to destroy the enemy. To let his anger flow through and be strong. It overwhelmed Kyp. He squeezed his dark eyes shut, unable to watch as his hands gripped the control levers for launching the torpedo. He primed the system. The screens blinked with warning signals, which he disregarded.
He needed to destroy something. He needed to kill those who had betrayed him. His fists gripped the firing handles. His thumbs rested on the launch buttons, squeezing, ready—
Squeezing—
And then the haunting voice of Exar Kun rose to a wail in his mind, an utterly forlorn scream as if he were being torn out of this universe and exiled to another place entirely, where he could torment Kyp Durron no more. Kyp snapped backward in his control seat as if an invisible tow cable had been severed. His arms and head dangled like a puppet with suddenly snipped strings. The cool wind of freedom whistled through his mind and body. He blinked his eyes and shuddered with revulsion at what he had been about to do.
The Millennium Falcon still gripped the Sun Crusher in its tractor beam. As Kyp saw the battered old ship, Han Solo's prize possession, he felt a tidal wave of despair. Kyp reached out to the energy torpedo controls and vehemently canceled the firing sequence. The plasma generator flicked and faded as the energy died away. Without the presence of Exar Kun inside him, Kyp felt isolated, suddenly in the free fall—but independent.
He opened the communication channel but couldn't form words for a few moments. His throat was dry. It felt as if he hadn't had anything to eat or drink in four thousand years. "Han," he croaked, and said louder, "Han this is Kyp! I..." He paused, not knowing what next to say—what else he could say. He hung his head and finally finished, "I surrender."
--Taken from Champions of the Force

Kun clearly had a compelling hold over him.

Exar Kun passed the millennia in uneasy slumber. For a moment, and only for a moment, he was roused partially from his stupor by the bright presence of a man strong in the Force. Slowly extending his feelers in the direction of the mysterious man, Kun discovered that one of his great temples was inhabited by a small band of armed humans. But before he could gather enough strength to reach out to top this energy source, the Force-user and his fellows departed, and Kun again lapsed into sleep.
A few scant years later, Kun is brought sharply awake by the arrival of not one or two, but a dozen humans blazing with the power he needed to live again. Eagerly but cautiously, Kun observes each arrival, probing for weaknesses and the power he needs to restore his lost reserves of energy. For a time, he is able to subside by feeding on their residual energy, but soon he will need worshippers if he is to grow more active. With a nucleus of followers to provide him energy-providing anger and fear, Kun will have enough power to escape his exile and take on human form. To his surprise, Kun recognizes the leader to be the same man who had visited Yavin Four years earlier, now much more powerful in the Force. Too powerful, for the moment, for Kun to tackle.
Kun finds Gantoris, strong-willed and impatient to learn, to be a more promising first candidate. He easily seduces Gantoris in the same manner that Nadd had seduced him—by promising forbidden knowledge and the truly powerful Jedi secrets Gantoris cannot wait to learn. Carefully building up and feeding on the anger of his first apprentice, Kun grows in power. Soon he feels confident to make an attempt to subvert Luke, knowing that if he can sway the teacher, the students will all follow. Kun, posing as Anakin Skywalker, appears to Luke and attempts to pull him toward the forbidden Sith teachings by tempting hi to use Sith power to seize control of the New Republic and destroy the Empire. Realizing that this shade is not that of his father, Luke rejects the offer.
Enraged and drained, Kun returns to Gantoris. Desperate for more energy, he goads Gantoris to new heights of anger by showing him the Eol Sha colonists dying on Dantooine. Gantoris is pushed too far, however, and turns on his Sith master. Realizing that Gantoris is no longer his, Kun utterly drains him to provide himself a reserve of energy to last until he can subvert more students.
Kun has just begun edging in on Streen when Kyp Durron arrives at the Jedi Academy. Kun immediately senses in the young man his ideal subject. Like Gantoris, Kyp is strong-willed and impatient to learn. Moreover, he is far more powerful than the Eol Sha leader, and young enough to be overconfident and naive.
Over a number of weeks, Kun slowly bends Kyp to his will, and begins to augment his power. He grows very powerful on Kyp's hate, and soon his hold on Kyp is so complete that he can send Kyp beyond the planet to do his will and still retain control over his subject. Ultimately, he has Kyp return to Yavin Four and helps him reclaim the Sun Crusher. He also bolsters Kyp's talents to allow him to defeat Luke and place him in a coma.
--Taken from the Jedi Academy Sourcebook

Kyp's energies feed the powers of Kun, whom channels this through Kyp himself and even incapacitates Luke himself. Even so he is STILL not at full power as Vodo Siosk Baas tells Luke in the 'spirit realm', Exar Kun is still at just a part of his power. He would only ever be at full power once he had his human form back.

Meetra's ability to bond with her students doesn't work the way you think it does, she gained the techniques and powers that they taught he. As she herself taught them, the bond allowed her to train them a lot faster than normally possible and vice-versa.

Unless you are actually stating that the nexus on Dromund Kaas somehow vanished between said times, I am not sure what you are getting at. Vitiate's experiments and imprisonment of other Sith in the Dark Temple turned the planet into a much more powerful Nexus than it had formerly been.

Actually none of those sources have a direct statement on what effect the annihilation of the surface had on him.

Yes he was, he was practically mind dominating him and feeding off his energies to sustain himself, he was the reason Kyp went Dark Side in the first place.

Ah so you're just going to ignore the point I see.

If all her power came from her companions then why is she still performing on Dromund Kaas and then feeding Revan for three centuries?

I still do not see how this renders these effects mute. The planet was one massive center of Dark Side energy, the orbit itself was a miasma of Dark Side energy.

Your argument continues to grow smaller and more less significant. Gewd.

There's a difference between controlling someone and ****ing with there mind. Kun did the second.

Your point was wrong, as evidenced by Luke Skywalker getting ****ed up.

Did I say all her power was coming from them? No. Though the difference was pretty great.

They were corrupted by the temple, not the planet at large. They were all fine walking around on the planet until they reached the temple.

Kun did both, that is obvious, when you have such an effect on someone's mind that you outright turn them to the Dark Side of the Force and give them dark techniques way beyond your own comprehension and then that all disappears, it means you have total control the quote outright states his control was complete.

So because he defeats Luke Skywalker a statement in a source is incorrect? hahahaha.

I do not believe this for a second, as it is stated outright that she got more powerful by feeding on the death around her.

No they weren't, even on the journey to the temple, they were all suffering the effects.

I'll respond soon. Gtg get some sleep though, 1:30am. D:

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

You also forget Meetra was amped by her companions when she soloed Malachor. She drained everyone around her as a wound.

No it's not. The temple was founded by Darth Millennial, far after Vitiate's rule ended.

You should know better Anthony.

I swear you say these things just to draw me in.

She wasn't amped by her companions during the Trayus academy as none of then were there, and everyone else were already wounds who's soul purpose was to drain, not be drained.

You seem to completely disregard other sources in favor of one, despite the fact that none of the sources contradict each other at all. You're doing this all out of some petty hatred that Obsidian went with Meetra, and that there was indeed a character in the Kotor era far more interesting than your beloved lord.

It's simple, Meetra was weakened. There's no need to say she wasn't and it's a retcon, because we know every other Jedi who has ever set foot on that planet bar the HOT was weakened, and was weakened immensely. Even Yoda.

Are you trying to say that Nyriss > Yoda? That Dooku> Yoda just because they'd beat him on Dromund Kaas? Because that's the logic you're using here.

Nay, logic is a strong word. That's the idiocy you're spamming here.

Originally posted by Selenial

I swear you say these things just to draw me in.

She wasn't amped by her companions during the Trayus academy as none of then were there.

There's no specification of a certain distance to not be affected by her companions. After all she was able to feel Kreia losing her hand even though she had gone solo to face Sion. And that was her first and only bond, I'm sure she still had the help of her companions who were still somewhat nearby.

It's simple, Meetra was weakened. There's no need to say she wasn't and it's a retcon, because we know every other Jedi who has ever set foot on that planet bar the HOT was weakened, and was weakened immensely. Even Yoda.

It's a theory at best however solid it is. It's not irrefutable. I'm pretty sure Meetra spoke nothing about the dark side effects of DK, and certainly didn't mention of being weakened as a result.

[/QUOTE]

Karpyshyn left out plenty about Revan as well as Meetra, he really didn't go into the realm of descriptive writing with this one. That was why quite a lot of people hated it, it was rushed, felt rushed and lacked any background. So many characters could have been given endings and questions could have been answered, but no.

Never notice how Meetra's wound seems to no longer exist? or Traya? Notice how everyone but Bastila seems to act like the Dark Wars never happened? it's called a poor job.

Originally posted by Selenial
You should know better Anthony.

I swear you say these things just to draw me in.

She wasn't amped by her companions during the Trayus academy as none of then were there, and everyone else were already wounds who's soul purpose was to drain, not be drained.

You seem to completely disregard other sources in favor of one, despite the fact that none of the sources contradict each other at all. You're doing this all out of some petty hatred that Obsidian went with Meetra, and that there was indeed a character in the Kotor era far more interesting than your beloved lord.

It's simple, Meetra was weakened. There's no need to say she wasn't and it's a retcon, because we know every other Jedi who has ever set foot on that planet bar the HOT was weakened, and was weakened immensely. Even Yoda.

Are you trying to say that Nyriss > Yoda? That Dooku> Yoda just because they'd beat him on Dromund Kaas? Because that's the logic you're using here.

Nay, logic is a strong word. That's the idiocy you're spamming here.

"You make connections through the Force, and it resonates with those who travel with you. The resonance is even greater when they, too, are Force sensitive. Your actions affect others more than you know. You draw others to you, especially those strong in the Force. When you suffer, their spirit echoes it. And when they are in pain, their pain becomes yours. [...] It is what allows them to prey on Force users, to become stronger when Force Sensitives are near."
--The Jedi Council (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords)

Your argument is she was weakened on Nathema by staying there for several months. You can eternally never speak.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kun did both, that is obvious, when you have such an effect on someone's mind that you outright turn them to the Dark Side of the Force and give them dark techniques way beyond your own comprehension and then that all disappears, it means you have total control the quote outright states his control was complete.

So because he defeats Luke Skywalker a statement in a source is incorrect? hahahaha.

I do not believe this for a second, as it is stated outright that she got more powerful by feeding on the death around her.

No they weren't, even on the journey to the temple, they were all suffering the effects.

No. His powers displayed in the novels are much greater then what is shown in the comics. Though, it might have been because he drew off of Kyp's power.

The above post. ^

They felt the darkness and it bared on them, but nothing that negated there powers drastically. The Dark Force Temple did however:
“He founded a religion that would become known as the Dark Force. There’s an ancient temple there still. It was serviced for centuries by the Dark Prophets.
It’s so steeped in the dark side that it formed its own nexus—one so powerful it interferes with all weaponry and technology except for lightsabers."
--Luke Skywalker (Star Wars Fate of the Jedi: Ascension)

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ooo, is Cary (😉) mad? You must calm your anger to raise that baby girl.

Stop being creepy.

I'm not. You simply do not understand the inside joke (for me and Skillz at least), and therefore should not voice your opinion on it.