Tier vs CIS

Which character is impacted more by CIS in each tier? Don't have to include street levelers because it's hard to imply CIS with them. You don't have to include all tiers if you don't want too...just choose a tier of your choice.

Originally posted by carver9
Which character is impacted more by CIS in each tier? Don't have to include street levelers because it's hard to imply CIS with them. You don't have to include all tiers if you don't want too...just choose a tier of your choice.

Flash in the herald tier.

Speed is ALL he has. It isn't even like Surfer or Thor where they have a myriad other abilities to use. He moves really really fast, and that is it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash in the herald tier.

Speed is ALL he has. It isn't even like Surfer or Thor where they have a myriad other abilities to use. He moves really really fast, and that is it.

😂

👆

You have to think about it though. Who would be able to challenge him if he went out all? That's not part of the OP question though and I agree 100% with you.

Hulk. With CIS off he would lose to almost everyone in herald tier, at least by BFR. 🙂

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash in the herald tier.

Speed is ALL he has. It isn't even like Surfer or Thor where they have a myriad other abilities to use. He moves really really fast, and that is it.

If we were going by this then wouldn't hulk fall under this to?

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Hulk. With CIS off he would lose to almost everyone in herald tier, at least by BFR. 🙂

I agree. HP Doomsday, Classic Mangog, Classic Juggernaut, Tutinax, The General, Konvikt, DOS Doomsday, High End Grundy (who ripped through the JSA with ease), all of them would lose to everyone in the Herald tier. This man is a genius. Crazy thing is, lately Hulk has shown a new ability that prevents him from being bfred. Wonder if the same can be said for these peeps.

Overall they suck and you made a good point. 👆

Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
If we were going by this then wouldn't hulk fall under this to?

Nah, because Hulk's strength/durability/speed is tied into his emotional state, i.e. his rage. If he gets shot at by the Punisher, his anger level is different than if say his entire planet was destroyed in front of his eyes by people he thought of as friends.

It's not CIS any more than a Green Lantern's fear weakness is CIS.

Flash on the other hand, thinks AND moves at superspeeds constantly. Moreover, due to his supercomputer of a brain (which the JLA have made use of on occasion) he SHOULD be Midnighter on steroids, planning and executing the perfect tactic at lightspeed, and accounting for all variables. Hell, even if an unknown variable creeps in (so for example, his foe is stronger/faster than originally thought) he should be able to adjust and come up with a new tactic at a similar speed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nah, because Hulk's strength/durability/speed is tied into his emotional state, i.e. his rage. If he gets shot at by the Punisher, his anger level is different than if say his entire planet was destroyed in front of his eyes by people he thought of as friends.

It's not CIS any more than a Green Lantern's fear weakness is CIS.

Flash on the other hand, thinks AND moves at superspeeds constantly. Moreover, due to his supercomputer of a brain (which the JLA have made use of on occasion) he SHOULD be Midnighter on steroids, planning and executing the perfect tactic at lightspeed, and accounting for all variables. Hell, even if an unknown variable creeps in (so for example, his foe is stronger/faster than originally thought) he should be able to adjust and come up with a new tactic at a similar speed.

What about WWH? Would CIS play with him since he had complete control of his rage/power?

Originally posted by carver9
What about WWH? Would CIS play with him since he had complete control of his rage/power?

He consciously held back, which isn't...stupidity, per se.

CIS, for me, as defined in the rules, are:

Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb.

So whilst a lot of people may focus on part 1 of the above paragraph, they usually forget part 2 - the dumb character.

WWH wasn't dumb - they really went out of their way to show that. He imposed mental limitations on himself, sure, but no more than say, Batman imposes limitations on himself and doesn't use killing death blows on every criminal he meets. Same way Superman holds back - not because he's stupid and doesn't know how to use his powers to the max, but because he doesn't want to destroy the planet/kill.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He consciously held back, which isn't...stupidity, per se.

CIS, for me, as defined in the rules, are:

So whilst a lot of people may focus on part 1 of the above paragraph, they usually forget part 2 - the dumb character.

WWH wasn't dumb - they really went out of their way to show that. He imposed mental limitations on himself, sure, but no more than say, Batman imposes limitations on himself and doesn't use killing death blows on every criminal he meets. Same way Superman holds back - not because he's stupid and doesn't know how to use his powers to the max, but because he doesn't want to destroy the planet/kill.

Makes sense.

Flash uses his speed in a creative way, vibrating, im punch etc.

Anyway, Hulk, he has only his strength an HF, he is not very mobile compared to others and lacks versatility. Doomsday is faster and has his evolve ability.

CIS in a negative way. People like Gladiator and Terrax or Martian Manhunter, they are some of the best, yet because of CIS they sometimes don't deserve to be in their tier...

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Flash uses his speed in a creative way, vibrating, im punch etc.

Anyway, Hulk, he has only his strength an HF, he is not very mobile compared to others and lacks versatility. Doomsday is faster and has his evolve ability.

CIS in a negative way. People like Gladiator and Terrax or Martian Manhunter, they are some of the best, yet because of CIS they sometimes don't deserve to be in their tier...

My point with Flash was that he should be doing it all the time, or at least, be strategising and planning. How many times has BATMAN, of all people (i.e. the one with human level reactions) had to yell at Flash to focus on the battle at hand, and use his speed? Telling the speedster to use his speed - the definition of CIS lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My point with Flash was that he should be doing it all the time, or at least, be strategising and planning. How many times has BATMAN, of all people (i.e. the one with human level reactions) had to yell at Flash to focus on the battle at hand, and use his speed? Telling the speedster to use his speed - the definition of CIS lol.

That's true, if people with speed would use it to the best of abilities, the fights would be short and look like the one from X-Men DOFP. ^^

Kang is absurdly held back by CIS. His time manipulation abilities would be broken entirely in a forum match, but he's geared towards physical.

Any of the titular Flashes. I mean lets face it, a dude who is not only faster than everyone else (including the fastest of the fastest speedsters) but also can straight up take away your speed/movement isn't likely to lose outside of CIS/PIS. Ever.

Absorbing Man

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash in the herald tier.

👆 👆

surfer would be a close second.

spidey can be terribly hampered at times in the meta tier as well.

The Darkness almost all his fights scream from CIS.

Originally posted by leonidas
👆 👆

surfer would be a close second.

spidey can be terribly hampered at times in the meta tier as well.

I just wanna scream at hum to use his smarts and build something, anything

Carver and Darksaint. I know this is not adding anything to this thread, but as I am pretty new to comics I just wanted to say that it was really interesting reading your explanations above, and I learned a lot from them. Thanks.