Originally posted by carthage
I'm not wanking Dooku he is just superior in terms of quantifiable feats that can be determined to originate from his own power. Vitiate has no feats to suggest that he is as powerful as he is, as the vast majority of his examples take place on nexuses/rituals that amplify whatever "power" he has. He has no off nexus feats to compare, and therefore cannot be considered as powerful as Dooku until he has comparable showings.
Vitiate has always been prepared for his opponents. This is because he is smarter than everyone around him. Sidious was expecting the jedi team in ROTS, does that mean we should not take his performance seriously?
I understand if the preparation included some sort of power boosting ritual but that is not the case with Vitiate in most situations. You ignore feats like dark council one-shoting for very stupid reasons.
And for the last freaking time, the jedi strike team pwning has no nexus effect. Even if it had, it wouldn't matter much since the planet's nexus isnt that relevant.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66Yoda is Vitiate's superior in the force, and with his saber skills it's just overkill.
He really is not.
Sinious, since you claim to be unbiased look through the thread Cart linked, and make a case for Vitiate.
Im not completely unbiased, I've never claimed that as no one is but "some" people took it to the next level. I will check the debate in the link tho.
BTW, Cart may have trollish ways, but he is by far better than you at debating.
I've never claimed to be an expert debater too, but Im pretty sure I'm above things like ignoring feats and screaming "NEXUS" every time Im out of answers.
Originally posted by Sinious
Im not completely unbiased, I've never claimed that as no one is but "some" people took it to the next level. I will check the debate in the link tho.I've never claimed to be an expert debater too, but Im pretty sure I'm above things like ignoring feats and screaming "NEXUS" every time Im out of answers.
Vitiate has always been prepared for his opponents. This is because he is smarter than everyone around him. Sidious was expecting the jedi team in ROTS, does that mean we should not take his performance seriously?
Being "smarter" is solely your opinion, he had extraordinary circumstances and a nexus that benefited him and not his own ability to rely on. That doesn't make him "smarter" it means he had a means at his disposal plus an external source to draw on.
I understand if the preparation included some sort of power boosting ritual but that is not the case with Vitiate in most situations. You ignore feats like dark council one-shoting for very stupid reasons.
He killed them off panel, and Sidious can easily kill them based on his feats, and the fact the Dark council for the most part are nearly all featless barring some members.
And for the last freaking time, the jedi strike team pwning has no nexus effect. Even if it had, it wouldn't matter much since the planet's nexus isnt that irrelevant.
He charged up his power and was still in orbit of a powerful darkside nexus that he created. The second part of your statement is your opinion, Vitiate has no showings bereft of a place strong in the darkside to prove that he could replicate and or that he performed a showing similar to that.
I've never claimed to be an expert debater too, but Im pretty sure I'm above things like ignoring feats and screaming "NEXUS" every time Im out of answers.
Cool story bro
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yoda is stated to be ROTS Sidious' equal, ROTS Sidious is stronger than Vitiate. They are all around the same level force power wise, perhaps with an edge to Vitiate. But Yoda is in a different tier with a blade, so Yoda definitely takes this.
I may agree with that though I think Vitiate's combat capabilities are being underrated here. He isnt as vulnerable as most people think as he has proven himself against powerful opponents and strike teams.
"Legions have risen to test me."
Originally posted by Sinious
I may agree with that though I think Vitiate's combat capabilities are being underrated here. He isnt as vulnerable as most people think as he has proven himself against powerful opponents and strike teams."Legions have risen to test me."
Revan alone sent him flying like a ***** on a darkside nexus. Any high tier fighter even with less the mental fortitude of Revan is capable of the same thing. He isn't made for combat he is made for sitting in a dark room fantasizing about being a male stripper and a farmer. Did I leave the part out where even in spite of controlling half the galaxy, he let a bunch of political hacks i,e the Dark council cost him the war?
Originally posted by Sinious
He really is not.Im not completely unbiased, I've never claimed that as no one is but "some" people took it to the next level. I will check the debate in the link tho.
I've never claimed to be an expert debater too, but Im pretty sure I'm above things like ignoring feats and screaming "NEXUS" every time Im out of answers.
1) Yoda really is. Again, read the thread and make your case.
2) Correction: you have claimed that your bias doesn't affect your opinion, which it does, considering you're making statements without backing them up.
3) I'm sorry you don't like how nexuses work, but we're not going toss it out just to elevate your favorite character. You constantly try to bash Cart when he provides way more to debates than you do. His trollish ways aside, he is very good at analyzing character feats. I don't agree with everything he says, but at least he provides more to debates than you do, and he admits when his favorite characters are completely outclassed by another character, unlike you.
Originally posted by carthage
Being "smarter" is solely your opinion, he had extraordinary circumstances and a nexus that benefited him and not his own ability to rely on. That doesn't make him "smarter" it means he had a means at his disposal plus an external source to draw on.
Solely my opinion?
"During a violent tempest, Darth Lokess called a secret meeting of her eleven fellow Dark Council members. Under the cover of night, the Dark Council met and heard Darth Lokess describe a brilliant and daring plan to overthrow the Sith Emperor, end his relentless exile, and lead the Empire back to war against the Republic. An army of Sith under the command of Darth Lokess were stationed outside the meeting, ready to slay any Dark Council member who refused. But they all agreed to depose the Emperor.
It remains a mystery how the Emperor learned of his council's treachery. He allowed their plan to play out, but when they gathered to confront the Emperor, his punishment was swift and devastating. Eleven members of the Dark Council died in a sudden flash on the steps of the Citadel. The last member Darth Lokess, disappeared forever, though for some centuries some claimed her screams could be heard from the bowels of the Citadel."
-SWTORE
"There, safely hidden from their enemies, the Sith began to rebuild their Empire. Under the guidance of the Emperor—the immortal and all-powerful savior who still reigned over them even after a thousand years—they abandoned the hedonistic lifestyles of their barbaric ancestors."
-SWTOR: Revan
"All members of the Empire bow before their sovereign ruler - the Sith Emperor. Enigmatic and supremely powerful, the Emperor directs this domain from the shadows and manipulates the galaxy to carry out his will."
-SWTORE
As you can see, Vitiate has managed to create a system so sophisticated and well-organized, he was almost never in danger. They simply could not sucker punch him. He was ready for anything.
Also he is considered to be a genius mastermind that manipulates most of the important events that takes part in the galaxy.
"Voice of the Emperor" Codex Entry in swtor.con states that he has reached such a state of mind that he was able to telepathically speak to his servants spread in the galaxy while physically talking to someone in his presence. He also had 1400 years of experience unlike any sith/jedi we have seen.
You talk as if you've created the concept of nexus in Star Wars. You don't know how much a nexus boosts a character. You always assume it at least doubles their powers but what if it is like %1 boost effect? How the hell do you know that seriously? Especially when it is not specifically stated that the character is actively using the nexus.
He killed them off panel, and Sidious can easily kill them based on his feats, and the fact the Dark council for the most part are nearly all featless barring some members.
Sidious can easily kill them? How? What has ROTS Sidious or Yoda shown force powers wise to prove them selves stronger than 12 of the most powerful sith lords amongst thousands of sith during an era that is considered one of its culture's peaks? Oh and if you think they have a chance in sabers, thats impossible.
He charged up his power and was still in orbit of a powerful darkside nexus that he created. The second part of your statement is your opinion, Vitiate has no showings bereft of a place strong in the darkside to prove that he could replicate and or that he performed a showing similar to that.
A powerful nexus? How powerful? Also prove that he actually used the nexus and I don't remember a quote stating Vitiate actively boosted his powers than usual by charging up before the confrontation. Share if you have one.
After he became the Emperor, he never left Dromund Kaas and you're using this against the character to win this debate. That is stupid and childish. I suggest you try embracing a more healthier perspective.
Cool story bro
This is exactly the case for you and I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
1) Yoda really is. Again, read the thread and make your case.2) Correction: you have claimed that your bias doesn't affect your opinion, which it does, considering you're making statements without backing them up.
3) I'm sorry you don't like how nexuses work, but we're not going toss it out just to elevate your favorite character. You constantly try to bash Cart when he provides way more to debates than you do. His trollish ways aside, he is very good at analyzing character feats. I don't agree with everything he says, but at least he provides more to debates than you do, and he admits when his favorite characters are completely outclassed by another character, unlike you.
1) Nah he isnt and I don't have to read that to make my case but I will when I have time.
2) If what I write includes my thoughts on the matter, I clarify it as what I think/believe and usually back it up with a reasoning whether it is correct or not or whether you agree with them or not.
3) I'm not the one who uses nexus effects to elevate my favorite characters or eras. You and Carthage are doing exactly that actually.
But I'm tired of you trying to criticize my debating or comparing me to Carthage. I don't a s**t about your opinions and I surely won't waste further time trying to justify myself to you.
People love to use nexuses to invalidate feats even when theres no reason they're relevant or its obvious the character could replicate the feat even off it. It's usually just a BS way of ignoring showings and avoiding critical thinking.
Vitiate absolutely creamed the Strike Team "easily" and one-shot the Dark Council. Do you really think it matters at all if he was on a nexus or not?
Originally posted by Nephthys
People love to use nexuses to invalidate feats even when theres no reason they're relevant or its obvious the character could replicate the feat even off it. It's usually just a BS way of ignoring showings and avoiding critical thinking.Vitiate absolutely creamed the Strike Team "easily" and one-shot the Dark Council. Do you really think it matters at all if he was on a nexus or not?
👆
Originally posted by Nephthys
People love to use nexuses to invalidate feats even when theres no reason they're relevant or its obvious the character could replicate the feat even off it. It's usually just a BS way of ignoring showings and avoiding critical thinking.Vitiate absolutely creamed the Strike Team "easily" and one-shot the Dark Council. Do you really think it matters at all if he was on a nexus or not?