yeah, batman is one of those characters that cannot be rationalized away. we either agree that everything he does is pis, or we say it all happens so often that we....redefine pis as it relates to him. despite dc's stance that he is purely human, clearly he is much more than that. other characters have similar standings (cap to an extent, supermartial artists, logan to a degree) but no one approaches the level of batman in this regard. we just take batman at what we see. the dude can be invisible to superman ffs. people will rationalize his feats however they want, but there are so many impossible ones, it creates a sense of logic-conflict no matter HOW you try and view it. he's batman and he's like no other character, really. /shrug
Like Leo said, there's a lot of characters that break human norms. Really, all of them have moments.
Batman just happens to have a ridiculous frequency of them.
Any line drawn, should probably use "baseline inhuman human" as a start.
Along with some internal logic. Spidey can beat down Firelord as many times as he wants, that doesn't make it "not PIS." Peter Parker wasn't trained in "Space Karate".
Frequency is a component of legitimacy, sure, but there's other factors.
I remember when "meta" Bats was causing some people to lose their minds. No matter if he's officially called a meta or not, he definitely has a ton of meta feats which is all that matters. He's not close to only human in feats.
This always make me chuckle.
Originally posted by cdtmAlong with some internal logic. Spidey can beat down Firelord as many times as he wants, that doesn't make it "not PIS." Peter Parker wasn't trained in "Space Karate".
Frequency is a component of legitimacy, sure, but there's other factors.
Originally posted by cdtm
That's in line with Matt flipping a limo, Fisk denting steel in his bare hands, or Cap throwing a shield through a tank.Impressive, yes, but still within the "comic book" street range.
Taking a full on punch from Wonder Woman, otoh..
cdtm I think you might be the only one to get my point.
Originally posted by Supermutant
Cap throwing a shield through a tank is above street range to me and into meta range. Same as with Bruce kicking a motorcycle in half in a sparring session with dick.
Well I think his point is that it's within the established range of ability of certain human characters with certain 'powersets'.
Originally posted by cdtm
That's in line with Matt flipping a limo, Fisk denting steel in his bare hands, or Cap throwing a shield through a tank.Impressive, yes, but still within the "comic book" street range.
Taking a full on punch from Wonder Woman, otoh..
Agreed.
HOWEVER, Bats accumulates these feats with regularity. We're not even talking about Pre Crisis Silver Age nonsense, lol.
He's a human....Who has to deal with metahumans. So carries offensive gear to deal with them, and defensive gear to protect him, OF THAT LEVEL.
On top of that, he regularly interacts with meta's. And is on a team made up of the most powerful metas in DC...And has to stay relevant.
So he accumulates the feats. because to be Batman is PIS.
Originally posted by cdtm
That's in line with Matt flipping a limo, Fisk denting steel in his bare hands, or Cap throwing a shield through a tank.Impressive, yes, but still within the "comic book" street range.
Taking a full on punch from Wonder Woman, otoh..
Cap waited years for the tank feat. It was meant to be in Astonishing Cap, but eventually it was included in the other book.
Even then, it's technically the shield doing most of the work.
Wasn't a punch.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Agreed.HOWEVER, Bats accumulates these feats with regularity. We're not even talking about Pre Crisis Silver Age nonsense, lol.
He's a human....Who has to deal with metahumans. So carries offensive gear to deal with them, and defensive gear to protect him, OF THAT LEVEL.
On top of that, he regularly interacts with meta's. And is on a team made up of the most powerful metas in DC...And has to stay relevant.
So he accumulates the feats. because to be Batman is PIS.
So basically, Batman vs Deathstroke was the perfect match up.
The other guy that every comic nerd said "Bullshit!" against in Identity Crisis, even though his entire history revolves around beating a group of superpowered teens and a Flash.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nope. I'm merely acknowledging that you're now bored of this thread, and I am enjoying the interaction, so wish to continue it, even though as far as I'm concerned, I've won this one.If it means using another thread with diff combatants, so be it 🙂
Nah it's a bait thread, you've won because nobody is really responding to you. I'm still considering wether to reply to one of your posts and you can't win if you don't even understand the points your opponent is making.
Originally posted by Deadline
You can't win if you don't even understand the points your opponent is making.
And that....Is why you fail 🙂
I never brought up the physicals, in a serious manner. It was Golgo, I think. I brought it up in a tongue in cheek way.
Notice my strat never had Batman engaging in face to face fighting, pitting his strength and durability against Cap. That's a strat which would just devolve into circular arguments and low balling etc.
I said Batman, the guy who uses stealth all the time, would use stealth. Would use his gadgets. It's not my fault you and Albert were unaware or unwilling to acknowledge he doesn't just carry some batarangs around with him.
I specifically said he would use his grapnel gun. And I showed his gun has a 15ton breaking strain, which is above Caps level to break (especially when wrapped around his body, so it's not like he can use his pecs or bicep muscles).
I mean, Aquaman even calls him out on it:
https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/batmans-justice-buster-suit-vs-aquaman-1.jpg
'Enough tricks and gadgets...Come out and fight me with some damn honour'
Then he uses more gadgets and tricks, lol. My point is that Batman isn't going to run at Cap and throw kicks and punches.
