Originally posted by krisblaze
Well...what can Invincible do?He's just not as strong as these guys.
There's 5 of him, sure, but Hulk and Superman's feats just blow him out of the water-
True, we'll some feats. Hulk and Superman have better strength feats, however Invincible has the durability feats to hang from what I seen. Not many people at all been able to harm Invincible other than other Viltrumites post Viltrumite War.
He has tanked heat that can easily equal the stars, nukes, and a exploding planet. All with no damage in all those instances.
Then there is the speed factor of Invincible where New 52 can for sure keep up, I do not think Hulk will as easily. Sure Hulk can react to fast foes, but not in Invincible or Superman speeds. World breaker is another story as he emits gamma waves so speed wise does not need to keep up, but base hulk not so much.
There is also the fact Invincible has dealt with Hulk like being by flying him into space at super speed where said being was easily overpowered. He should be able to do this again.
Strength wise he is not that bad either. He can level mountains, as well fly through a planet. He has shown the strength to explode a large portion of the moon with Ramming attack.
Also there is the mention that Invincible's alternate selves have stated to kill Spawn in there universe, and it took only 20 Invincibles to level the entire Image Universe roster. This included beings like Tech Jacket, Downing Spawn, Darkness, Witchblade, Dynomo Five, Savage Dragon and crew, Young Blood, and the Invincible cast. Out of 20 Invincibles against all that 8 remain standing fine.
So 5 current Invincibles IMO should even with Hulk and New 52 Superman.
Originally posted by krisblaze
I've read the invincible comics, no need for a recap...Invincible doesn't come close to matching DCNU Superman in speed.
If they somehow manage to move the Hulk to space then sure, he's BFR'd. Congratulations. You proved that 5 Invincibles can get the Hulk into space 🙂
What is DCNU Supes best speed feats? I know he can fly FTL but so can Viltrumites. What is DCNU best combat speed feats?
Originally posted by krisblaze
Fighting the Flash and fighting Orion.I haven't seen Invincible do anything like that in-combat actually.
Was either battle stated to be fought at speeds faster than Invincible was? Sounds like your assuming they were Lightspeed fights by default.
I know Invincible fights at speeds that travel planet distance in seconds if less.
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Was either battle stated to be fought at speeds faster than Invincible was? Sounds like your assuming they were Lightspeed fights by default.I know Invincible fights at speeds that travel planet distance in seconds if less.
The Orion fight was creating sonic booms with every punch, at least.
Which fight?
Invincible won't hesitate to kill, so that's a huge advantage for him at least 🙂
Originally posted by krisblaze
Well, the Flash was fighting at his top speed and Superman was still landing hits (not full on blows mind you, but glancing hits).The Orion fight was creating sonic booms with every punch, at least.
Which fight?
Invincible won't hesitate to kill, so that's a huge advantage for him at least 🙂
The best examples of speed fights for Mark would include his fight with Omni Man. In that first major fight they were battling from mid America all the way to the North Pole in a few panels.
Mark vs Conquest is another example as Mark was fighting so fast that Cecil stated instant Teleportation would not keep up. They also stated you have to slow satellite scans of the fight, and still be 8 minuets behind the battle.
In the Viltrumite we see Viltrumites battle from one side of the planets space to the next within what seems seconds.
Omni Man and Allen done the same as above.
There was also the Fight wit Omni Man and Invincible vs three Viltrumites on a alien planet, battling at insane speeds across said planet.
Omni Man also had a speed blitz fight with Supreme who has shown Lightspeed attacks as well.
There is also the many showings of just fun things like catching a baseball thrown so fast to travel the world, getting comics in a split second from one side of the city to the other, and general speeds of navigating the planet in one panel, or flying several light years across space in two weeks time for habitable planets.
There is also a handful of speed blitzing feats where Mark kills or tries to kill a slower foe. Like The Nasa guy with the Squids. He just blitzed him and punched his head off in Instant. I love that panel.
I'm not sure how quantifiable Marks feats are, but if they can travel lighters while navigating they should have Superman level speeds.
This was just travelling while they fought, and it was really just Mark getting punched across the continent.
I don't see why Cecil would say that, Eve had no problem catching up and they were barely moving 😐
But you're right, there are a plethora of super-speed stuff, that's not what I'm disputing!
But no, those do not equal Superman level speeds. Having super-speed does not make you as fast as Superman...
Originally posted by krisblaze
This was just travelling while they fought, and it was really just Mark getting punched across the continent.I don't see why Cecil would say that, Eve had no problem catching up and they were barely moving 😐
But you're right, there are a plethora of super-speed stuff, that's not what I'm disputing!
But no, those do not equal Superman level speeds. Having super-speed does not make you as fast as Superman...
I think anyone who can fly and punch at speeds while traveling the world surface in a few panels, that's reaction and combat speed as it is. Reaction speed is also important as that shows how fast they can, well, react to speed attacks.
Also I remember the Superman vs Flash fight, IIRC Flash was far from Lightspeed at the time. Unless I am referring to another earlier confrontation.
Also Eve was not teleported to the fight till Conquest already had Invincible pretty much beaten and they both stayed in the city they ended up in. There was another instance of Cecil using instant teleportation to take down Invincible before he flew across the country and could not keep up at all. He was always behind till Invincible stopped.
Anyway I do not think Superman is for sure way faster than Viltrumites till I see an clear statement or showing of Lightspeed fighting rather than who they fought. After all Supreme is Lightspeed in attacks and kept up with Marvels Gladiator who is light speed in fighting. Omni Man beaten Supereme in an all out fight. If we accept Flash fighting Superman at top speeds, the we should do the same for Omni Man vs Supreme. Viltrumites are then more than Supermans speed level if we go by that reasoning.
I'm not referring to their first fight where Superman tagged him.
Yeah, when Cecil was trying to hit him with the short-range ear device. He needed to teleport to Invincible's exact location, and Invincible didn't get away until the last time. And let me ask you, how do you teleport to someone's exact location for more than a second if they're going at say 300 miles an hour? That's not evidence of Invincible's speed, that's just how it would go.
That's just ABC logic, which doesn't fly here. And just because Gladiator has fought at lightspeed doesn't mean he always fights at lightspeed. Even Gambit has kept up with him 😐
It's not the same because the Flash needed to go as fast as he could to make sure that Superman's punches didn't kill him, but he couldn't go fast enough to dodge them completely. It's not the same at all...
This could be a win for Invincible, but I just can't agree with these arguments.
Originally posted by krisblaze
I'm not referring to their first fight where Superman tagged him.Yeah, when Cecil was trying to hit him with the short-range ear device. He needed to teleport to Invincible's exact location, and Invincible didn't get away until the last time. And let me ask you, how do you teleport to someone's exact location for more than a second if they're going at say 300 miles an hour? That's not evidence of Invincible's speed, that's just how it would go.
That's just ABC logic, which doesn't fly here. And just because Gladiator has fought at lightspeed doesn't mean he always fights at lightspeed. Even Gambit has kept up with him 😐
It's not the same because the Flash needed to go as fast as he could to make sure that Superman's punches didn't kill him, but he couldn't go fast enough to dodge them completely. It's not the same at all...
This could be a win for Invincible, but I just can't agree with these arguments.
Cecil ear Device was very large in. The range was stated not that great but was shown to cover a quarter of a mile pretty easily as Invincible flew from the underground base and then shown to drop pretty far away from the base.
Your kinda using ABC logic yourself with the Flash and Orion fight. So if your best argument of Superman being faster is fighting Flash who runs so slow at times to be tagged by Captain Cold, Weather Wizard, and many others who are nowhere near Lightspeed is not that great of a argument of Supes fighting any faster than Mark can react.
Unless stated the battles were fought at light speed, it's assumption. Your using ABC argument of Superman fighting Flash at a unspecified speed as an Lightspeed feat. So he beats Invincible. I did the exact same showing Omni Man keeping up easily with Supreme. Or Supreme keeping up with Gladiator. These. Image characters have fought super fast beings as well, so by your reasoning they should be all considered fighting at top speed as well like Superman and Flash yes?
I personally think Superman is not light speed at all. Even pre DCNU Supes evenly matched Black Adam who in the was stated to top out at Mach 500 in speed in a race vs Jay Garrick.
So in short IMO the speeds of Supes vs Flash is no more valid than Omni Man vs Supreme. However by feats both Mark and Clark are pretty close from what I seen.
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Cecil ear Device was very large in. The range was stated not that great but was shown to cover a quarter of a mile pretty easily as Invincible flew from the underground base and then shown to drop pretty far away from the base.
It's simply invincible being ported on and then flying out of the radius while in pain 😐
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Your kinda using ABC logic yourself with the Flash and Orion fight. So if your best argument of Superman being faster is fighting Flash who runs so slow at times to be tagged by Captain Cold, Weather Wizard, and many others who are nowhere near Lightspeed is not that great of a argument of Supes fighting any faster than Mark can react.
I'm saying that the Flash was still hit when he's running his fastest.
The Flash isn't running his fastest when he's fighting those guys, and you clearly know nothing about them 🙂
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Unless stated the battles were fought at light speed, it's assumption. Your using ABC argument of Superman fighting Flash at a unspecified speed as an Lightspeed feat. So he beats Invincible. I did the exact same showing Omni Man keeping up easily with Supreme. Or Supreme keeping up with Gladiator. These. Image characters have fought super fast beings as well, so by your reasoning they should be all considered fighting at top speed as well like Superman and Flash yes?
a) It was not Invincible himself.
b) Supreme does not have lightspeed feats himself.
c) You're using Gladiator's speed to prove Supreme's speed, to prove Omni-Man's speed to prove Invincible's speed... If Invincible fought Gladiator and Gladiator said that he was moving as fast as he can, then you would've had something.
d) Speed is the Flash's main power. It's not something that the writer can 'forget' unlike Superman or Invincible's combat-speed.
e) Following your logic, most humans have lightspeed reactions. Watch;
Wolverine kept up with Gladiator. Humans have kept up with Wolverine. Dogs have kept up with humans. Dogs have lightspeed combat!
Originally posted by CadenceV2
I personally think Superman is not light speed at all. Even pre DCNU Supes evenly matched Black Adam who in the was stated to top out at Mach 500 in speed in a race vs Jay Garrick.
Originally posted by CadenceV2
So in short IMO the speeds of Supes vs Flash is no more valid than Omni Man vs Supreme. However by feats both Mark and Clark are pretty close from what I seen.
Then in your opinion third-hand feats are as valid as first-hand feats.