Originally posted by Time Immemorial
We don't know that, SSGG could have been stronger then SS4 and rightfully so based off the fact he inherits becomes the god of the saijen race. God Saijen>All of Saijens.Cannon facts.
But SSJ4 is non canon. Also all this shit:
Originally posted by Galan007
In GT, Goku stated that base Rildo was "even more powerful than Majin Buu"--yet Goku went on to stalemate Rildo as a base-level Saiyan. Thus we know base-level GT Goku~SSJ3 Z Goku, as that was the power required to contend with Majin Buu in Z. Subsequently, this means base-level GT Goku is at least [b]400x> base-level Z Goku(remember, in Z a SSJ3 is 400x> base.) And given how easily Goku trounced Frieza and SPCell as a base-level Saiyan, the above seems completely logical.When GT Goku went SSJ later on in their battle, his power increased "a hundred fold" according to Rildo. This means SSJ GT Goku was roughly 100x> SSJ3 Z Goku.
Even if we assume the SSJ2-SSJ3 multipliers were the same in GT as they were in Z(they were probably much greater, given the above) then it puts SSJ2 GT Goku at 200x> SSJ3 Z Goku, and SSJ3 GT Goku at 800x> SSJ3 Z Goku.
If we then use the commonly accepted SSJ4 multiplier of 10x a SSJ3, it puts SSJ4 Goku at 8,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku, and 3,200,000x> base-level Z Goku. Given all the hype a SSJ4 was given by the Kais+the fact that it was powerful enough to override a wish from the all-powerful Black Star Dragon+plus having Super-Baby as a visible gauge between a SSJ3 and a SSJ4... The 10x multiplier seems logical, imo.
Now we can factor in Omega Shenron. He effortlessly trounced SSJ4 Goku AND SSJ4 Vegeta at the same time, in a ridiculously...laughably...retardedly one-sided shit-stomp.
ie. Omega Shenron>>>>>SSJ4 Goku[8,000x>]SSJ3 Z Goku.We then have SSJ4 Gogeta, who was to Omega Shenron, what Omega Shenron was to SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta individually.
ie. SSJ4 Gogeta>>>>>Omega Shenron>>>>>SSJ4 Goku[8,000x>]SSJ3 Z Goku.I know it sounds insane, but that really was the type of power GT-era characters possessed. [/B]
Originally posted by juggerman
Doesn't work here. Case in point: whos's stronger Saiyan Saga Vegeta or SSJ4 Vegeta? One is canon yet weaker than his non canon counterpart.Non canon SSJ4 is stronger than canon SSJ God. Fact.
No proof or way scale Bills power or SSGM.
They were on another level above Ki, and power levels.
Until then latest cannon showings trump the early 2000 non cannon flicks.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
No proof or way scale Bills power or SSGM.They were on another level above Ki, and power levels.
Until then latest cannon showings trump the early 2000 non cannon flicks.
Proof is in the pudding. You have no evidence SSG comes close to SSJ4. In GT base child Goku was as powerful as his SSJ3 Z counterpart. Base Goku in BotG was below Frieza.
Goku was on a completely different playing field in GT. In base form his was schooling Cell and Frieza at the same time. Now that's "on another level".
Wrong. You need to prove that SSG is more powerful than the non canon SSJ4. Nothing they did showed it was. Any dialog at all that said it was hundreds of times stronger than SSJ3? Cuz it would need to be since GT SSJ1 was already 100 times more powerful than Z SSJ3.
Originally posted by juggerman
Proof is in the pudding. You have no evidence SSG comes close to SSJ4. In GT base child Goku was as powerful as his SSJ3 Z counterpart. Base Goku in BotG was below Frieza.Goku was on a completely different playing field in GT. In base form his was schooling Cell and Frieza at the same time. Now that's "on another level".
Wrong. You need to prove that SSG is more powerful than the non canon SSJ4. Nothing they did showed it was. Any dialog at all that said it was hundreds of times stronger than SSJ3? Cuz it would need to be since GT SSJ1 was already 100 times more powerful than Z SSJ3.
You have no proof that SS4 was stronger then Bills.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You have no proof that SS4 was stronger then Bills.
We have an idea of where SSJ4 Goku's PLs were. There is no indication that Bills comes anywhere close. So the burden is on you to prove he was.
I'll even help you out a bit here. We know for a fact that GT base Goku was about equal to Z Goku's SSJ3 form. And we know that when GT Goku went SSJ1 he was a hundred times stronger. So all you have to do at this point is prove Bills was 100 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku and we'll be on the right path.
After that we can add in the other trasformations but lets start out small shall we?
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Thats easy to see based on Goku in SSJ3 vs Bills fight.
No it isn't since we see in DBZ that you can completely outclass an opponent with less than double their power level.
Case in point: SSJ Gohan was less powerful than Cell but after going SSJ2 he was able to toy with Cell. And SSJ2 only doubles the power of SSJ1. So it's clearly explained in canon that an increase that only doubled his power was enough to completely wipe the floor with Cell. So imagine what a multiplier of 100 would do when a multiplier of 2 can do so much.
Again you've brought no real evidence to this. Prove SSG multiplied his power similarly to his GT counterpart.
Again, the 100x multiplier was a dub only line
Not that it really matters for reasons I've already said in another thread and Base GT Goku is still equal to someone he sensed to be stronger than some form of Majin Boo
Vegeto, who's usually the measuring stick for these BotG and GT threads, stops being a big deal by the time Super Baby Vegeta 1 shows up and becomes overall irrelevant when the Golden Great Ape made its debut
Originally posted by BloodRain
He's right about the Cell comparison. And its brought further into perspective when you consider that S3 Goku in BoG is on the level of Base Goku in GT.
Since when did we swap out cannon for non cannon around here, this place used to always be cannon>non cannon. If its changed, who changed it?