Kill the Surfer!

Originally posted by krisblaze
The difference between him and Nova was extreme though.

He also took more hits from Tenebrous/Aegis imo.

Honestly it feels like you're just refusing to acknowledge this, despite overwhelming evidence.

There is a very direct comparison between pre and post-boost. Surfer also specifically states that he wants to retain his remorse.

Do you really believe that the mention of his power-up and the whole Galactus' restoration of him only refers to a slight shift in personality?

Originally posted by Insane Titan
yeah because everything he did was nothing special in comparison to everything he has ever done.

There is a direct comparison in Ravenous being a close fight, and Surfer stomping him...

I think it was pretty clear Surfer was supposed to have gotten a power up in that scene/story.

Of course like 90% of power-ups no other writers gave a shit about it afterwards.

I think the reason why Surfer's post power up feats aren't "special" compared to his pre-power up feats is because Surfer's always been depicted as capable of doing practically anything via the power cosmic, so it just looks like more of the same, but it's actually not. Surfer has more power. His remorse holds him back from fully utilizing it to it's highest potential, but it's there.

Also, in Annihilation, the point where Surfer got his power-up was prior to the point where Surfer and Galactus were captured and placed in the Galactus Cannon. When Drax and Moondragon break Surfer out of his harness (after Drax had killed Thanos) Moondragon states that Thanos built in a failsafe to the device which was tuned to Thano's power level. Surfer's able to activate the power cell array, which was tuned to Thanos's energy signature, and Thanos was previously significantly more powerful than Surfer. A depleted Surfer, who couldn't stand up, was able to output Thanos's level of power:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps2bd44faa.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zps2fa568f4.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsa49cde35.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zps08822469.jpg

So either Surfer has always been as powerful as Thanos, or Galactus gave him more power.

I know it pains us all to admit this, but everything points to carver actually being right on this one. Every dog has it's day, it seems.

The way Surfer stood up to T&A clearly indicates a level of power beyond anything he'd demonstrated before.

I think an unrestrained Surfer is probably deep into Trans maybe even Sky Father territory, but we'll never see it on-panel, unless it's another one of those "the universe depends on you" situations.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I think the reason why Surfer's post power up feats aren't "special" compared to his pre-power up feats is because Surfer's always been depicted as capable of doing practically anything via the power cosmic, so it just looks like more of the same, but it's actually not. Surfer has more power. His remorse holds him back from fully utilizing it to it's highest potential, but it's there.

Also, in Annihilation, the point where Surfer got his power-up was prior to the point where Surfer and Galactus were captured and placed in the Galactus Cannon. When Drax and Moondragon break Surfer out of his harness (after Drax had killed Thanos) Moondragon states that Thanos built in a failsafe to the device which was tuned to Thano's power level. Surfer's able to activate the power cell array, which was tuned to Thanos's energy signature, and Thanos was previously significantly more powerful than Surfer. A depleted Surfer, who couldn't stand up, was able to output Thanos's level of power:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps2bd44faa.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zps2fa568f4.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsa49cde35.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zps08822469.jpg

So either Surfer has always been as powerful as Thanos, or Galactus gave him more power.

I know it pains us all to admit this, but everything points to carver actually being right on this one. Every dog has it's day, it seems.

Nice scans. Also, Surfer was damaged when he pulled that off. Wonder why this isn't in his respect thread.

Originally posted by krisblaze
There is a direct comparison in Ravenous being a close fight, and Surfer stomping him...

He did NOTHING else since to say he had a upgrade.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I think the reason why Surfer's post power up feats aren't "special" compared to his pre-power up feats is because Surfer's always been depicted as capable of doing practically anything via the power cosmic, so it just looks like more of the same, but it's actually not. Surfer has more power. His remorse holds him back from fully utilizing it to it's highest potential, but it's there.

Also, in Annihilation, the point where Surfer got his power-up was prior to the point where Surfer and Galactus were captured and placed in the Galactus Cannon. When Drax and Moondragon break Surfer out of his harness (after Drax had killed Thanos) Moondragon states that Thanos built in a failsafe to the device which was tuned to Thano's power level. Surfer's able to activate the power cell array, which was tuned to Thanos's energy signature, and Thanos was previously significantly more powerful than Surfer. A depleted Surfer, who couldn't stand up, was able to output Thanos's level of power:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps2bd44faa.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zps2fa568f4.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsa49cde35.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zps08822469.jpg

So either Surfer has always been as powerful as Thanos, or Galactus gave him more power.

I know it pains us all to admit this, but everything points to carver actually being right on this one. Every dog has it's day, it seems.

Moondragon says the device is powered to Thanos power signature twice ,ie cosmic power. She says that before Drax kills Thanos and and after Drax kills Thanos when she is panicking she then says power lvl.

If you look at the scans the gauge next to the device is empty. When Thanos places his hand on the pad he starts to fill the gauge up. When Drax kills Thanos you can clearly see the gauge is full, all Surfer does is simply complete the sequence.

Reread the first scan:

Moondragon states:

"You don't understand! The controls are keyed to Thanos's power level!"

It's right there in the speech bubble on the right.

*edit

I also have a scan of Thanos and Annihilus having a conversation where Thanos flatly tells Annihilus that he himself doesn't possess the power cosmic and uses other sources of power. I'll post after work as I'm on my way out the door now, but no, it's not a case of simply being keyed by the power cosmic.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I think the reason why Surfer's post power up feats aren't "special" compared to his pre-power up feats is because Surfer's always been depicted as capable of doing practically anything via the power cosmic, so it just looks like more of the same, but it's actually not. Surfer has more power. His remorse holds him back from fully utilizing it to it's highest potential, but it's there.

I think its a bit of a stretch to think that subsequent appearances of Surfer under Fraction, Slott etc take into account any kind of powerup. These kinds of power-ups may be important to people like us that worry about this sort of thing but I doubt anyone at Marvel remembers it.

If one accepts that I dont see much reason to assume it makes any real difference once Giffen was done. Its like Iron Man getting a suit thats more powerful than ever before - everyone else is just going to write him as the Iron Man they know & remember.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Reread the first scan:

Moondragon states:

"You don't understand! The controls are keyed to Thanos's power level!"

It's right there in the speech bubble on the right.

*edit

I also have a scan of Thanos and Annihilus having a conversation where Thanos flatly tells Annihilus that he himself doesn't possess the power cosmic and uses other sources of power. I'll post after work as I'm on my way out the door now, but no, it's not a case of simply being keyed by the power cosmic.

Power signature as in cosmic power, not literally the power cosmic, its a know fact Thanos uses COSMIC ENEGRY firing blasts.

So is the point that a vastly weakened/damaged Surfer~Thanos? So where would we put a full-power Surfer, then? Peak-Skyfather or low-end Abstract(nothing less than that could possibly hope to match Thanos' energy output while weakened, after all)..?

I mean, of course we wouldn't assume said feat was just an outlier, because Surfer=Odin makes a lot more sense. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
So is the point that a vastly weakened/damaged Surfer~Thanos? So where would we put a full-power Surfer, then? Peak-Skyfather or low-end Abstract?

I mean, of course we wouldn't assume said feat was just an outlier, because Surfer=Odin makes a lot more sense. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
So is the point that a vastly weakened/damaged Surfer~Thanos? So where would we put a full-power Surfer, then? Peak-Skyfather or low-end Abstract(nothing less than that could possibly hope to match Thanos' energy output while near-death, after all)..?

I mean, of course we wouldn't assume said feat was just an outlier, because Surfer=Odin makes a lot more sense. 👆

Don't think that's what DELPH is saying. He basically said SURFER matched Thanos output, not a depleted Surfer.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't think that's what DELPH is saying. He basically said SURFER matched Thanos output, not a depleted Surfer.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
A depleted Surfer, who couldn't stand up, was able to output Thanos's level of power:

Ok, I take my statement back. Lol.

It's either Thanos' s power signature or Thanos power level. If power level I don't understand why Thanos would have to put maximum effort into it to activate it. It'd be more like just some power imo.

We also know Surfer is nowhere near Thanos full power or not. Especially when Giffen had Thanos dunking on two "unlimited power" people straight up.

Still Surfer got a powerup. And subsequent showings where Surfer is durable and powerful as all shit don't hurt. He got rid of any notion of a glass jaw at the very least. His average now is his better showings back then.

The point I'm making is in regards to Galactus giving Surfer a power up (scans on previous page), not in regards to Surfer being equal to Thanos. That's the missed context. Insane Titan stated that there was no evidence that Surfer received a power up. I then stated as points of reference Surfer's two encounters with Ravenous (his difficulty prior to Galactus's 'healing', and his ease afterwards), and the other subsequent showing of Surfer being able to output Thanos's power level to activate the device when Moondragon stated the device was keyed to Thanos's power level (in scan above). I'm not saying that Surfer has Thanos's power level, I'm saying that, per that scan, a depleted Surfer, giving it his all, was able to activate a machine keyed to Thanos's power level. It's right there on the printed page, and also alluded to with Moondragon's statement about Thanos being "power incarnate".

Why are you ignoring the fact Thanos himself says it's Keyes to his power signature?

He created the machine so he knows more than Moodragon.

Simply put he never matched Thanos power therefore it gives no hint of a power up.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
what points to him having extra juice?

He had no effect on Thanos in the same ways he did in the past.