Darth Bane Vs Obi-Wan Kenobi

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I want to see how far down the rabbit hole this discussion will go.

Bane outright confirms that Prakith is a nexus in Dynasty of Evil when he ventures to retrieve Andeddu's holocron:

"He didn't know whether Andeddu's cult still existed or not, but from the moment he had come out of
hyperspace he had been confident their stronghold still survived. He could feel its presence on the
surface of the world—a nexus of dark side energy pulsing like a beacon from the heart of the
mountains."

Bane contemplated drawing on the Andeddu temple nexus to kill the cultists that emerge out of the temple/they are also amped as well

Despite their numbers, Bane instantly realized they posed no real threat. Though they worshiped one
of the ancient Sith, these were ordinary men and women. The Force did not flow through their veins;
they were nothing but fodder. Their fury might be fueled by the dark side energies emanating from the
templebut Bane could just as easily draw upon the same power, letting it build until he unleashed it
against his foes.

Bane unequivocally states that he drew on the power of the temple to disintegrate the Andeddu cultists

Bane extinguished his weapon and stood perfectly still, allowing the swarming horde to close in on
him as he gathered his strength. He called upon the power of the temple itself, feeding on it to bolster
his own abilities as he created a deadly field around his body. It began as a tight circle, but quickly
spread outward until it extended to a radius of ten meters, with the Sith Lord at the center. The air
within the circumference of the field suddenly became darker, as if the light from the red sun above

Bane utilizes the temple energy to drain the cultists:

However, as his enemies fell he was able to draw their essence into himself, feeding on their
energies to revitalize his fading strength and reinforcing the field in preparation for the next wave of
victims

--So now we've established the proof that Bane is perfectly aware of how to draw upon a nexus which alleviates the issue of your claim that he couldn't. Bane's nexus feats while impressive, all are not derived from his own power as evidenced by his inability to replicate any of them and the fact he confirms he drew on the Temples energy for his death field feat and his drain feat. Kenobi's feats with TK are all verifiably of his own power, Bane's are not

New Strength feat for Bane:

Muscles straining, he used all his great strength to slide it out of the way, the sound of grinding stoneechoing in the chamber as the heavy lid grudgingly succumbed to his efforts.

With regards to Bane's death ray feat, Bane also said he could replicate that but that it would be exhausting and would likely not work in combat like drain either.

So you just proved Bane can in fact use the nexus here. Thanks. With Orbalisks this is a GG, and Kenobi's finished. 👆

Its all good bro, I never stated that Kenobi could take Orbalisk Bane. But he would trash DOE Bane, and its Fated's fault for not specifying which version of Bane it was. Great discussion though 👆

I love how Carthage brought up the one example where I don't challenge Bane's use of a nexus.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I love how Carthage brought up the one example where I don't challenge Bane's use of a nexus.

What do you have to do with this discussion?

Go away please, if you really think I "troll you" pllease don't bring me up unless I address a post to you. Freshest is the only good debater in this thread that I was speaking too

DoE Bane couldn't even overpower Zannah in a strict lightsaber fight. Only because of her lack of perception he was able to find an advantage over her.
Kenobi's perception during lightsaber combat is much better (he has proven it on Mustafar), his skill with Soresu is also superior. He's at least as fast as Zannah (possibly even faster) and has superior strenght and possibly stamina.
Bane wont be able to overcome Kenobi's defense in strict lightsaber fight.

As a Force user, I believe that Bane is superior to Kenobi. But I'm not sure, if he will be able to catch Kenobi off-guard.
Sidious with his lightning was able to throw a lightsabers from their users' hands (Yoda, for example). His lightning was extremely hard to block, even with a lightsaber.
Bane's lightning was leagues below Sidious'. He couldn't everpower Zannah's defense with that, and he wont be able to break Kenobi's defense as well.
Many people was able to catch Kenobi off guard with their TK - Dooku, Maul, Ventress. But they have to find him off-guard first.
Ventres did that because both - Kenobi and Skywalker - lowered their guards, as they thought that she was already beaten.
Maul did that a few times: once because Kenobi have to split his concentration between Opress and Maul, once when Kenobi was already exhausted, and once when Kenobi charged him in order protect another Jedi.
Dooku also was able to catch Kenobi off guard only because he outmaneuvered and throw him off balance in lightsaber duel short before.

Bane doesn't has necessary skills in a swordsmanship to be able to outmaneuver Kenobi.
Actually, it's quite possible for Kenobi to take even all-out.

Zannah > Obi-Wan in lightsabers.

nice one, funny XD Almost as funny as your last jokes about Mace's Vaapad ;p

I'm not joking. She is faster, more powerful and has superior force defenses as well as lightsaber defenses in general.

No, she isn't. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I remember (I can't post it because I don't have DoE's english version) Cognus eyes could barley follow Zanahh's and Bane's lightsabers moves.

Force exhaustionbegan to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousnessback down to his physical form(...)
That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling fasterand faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze(...)

Dooku's eyes without a Force support couldn't even follow Anakin's blade. For me personally, that part of this fight from the book is opposite to the movie, so it's a non-canon. I'm using that only as a "book mechanics".

(...)giving Dooku the opportunity to leap away—Only to find himself again facing the wheel of blue lightningthat was Kenobi's blade.

Another example. Dooku was even faster then Kenobi, but still his eyes couldn't follow an enemy's moves which were slower then his own.

The sphere of blue lightsaber energy around him bulgedtoward Obi-Wan and opened like a mouth to bite him in half.
So now, facing the tornado of annihilating energy that is Grievous's attack(...)

Obi-Wan also couldn't see Grievous blows with his own eyes. And Grievous could become even faster.

Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast thatAnakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force.

Palpatine, Yoda, Dooku, Mace, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Grievous - all were that fast, that their's swords moves couldn't be seen by eyes. Those moves could only be seen with a Force's aid.

Zannah and Bane were far from being as fast as Jedi during PT era. More then that, they weren't as fast as them even in a DS nexus.

Zannah was a specialist of Sith Magic. Kenobi was a specialist of lightsaber combat, and was considered as "the Master of Soresu". Zannah is far below Kenobi as a swordsman, and as I said before - Kenobi is also faster and stronger.

Is someone could post that part where Cognus is able to "see" Bane's and Zannah's lightsabers moves, I'll be grateful. It's probably 27 chapter, second paragraph.

How exactly do any of those quotes suggest they're not following the blades? Lmao, wtf? They all have the observer clearly visually observing the blade.

Moving faster than the eye can see isn't even good in terms of speed. Johun Othone was capable of that. So excuse me if that doesn't shatter my delusions about Zannah's speed any time soon.

Could you post that?

"Knowing that the other two were momentarily incapacitated, he focused all his attention on the second man. Attacking as a trio, they had forced Johun onto the defensive. One-on-one, however, he was able to press the action. He came at his lone opponent aggressively, holding nothing back, knowing he was fighting to save not just himself but the Chancellor, as well. His blade danced and sizzled, moving too swiftly for the eye to follow."

Note that Sarro, who even RoT Zannah was able to keep up with in speed, was 3 times as fast as Johun btw:

"It took only seconds for her to realize that the bigger man was by far the more dangerous opponent. In the time it took for the smaller man to strike at her twice with his green blade, she had batted aside half a dozen attacks from the other."

Oke, my mistake. Anyway, I still believe, that Kenoby was way ahead of Zanah in terms of dueling ability.

The excruciating butthurt over nexuses is very pleasing.

Originally posted by McP
Oke, my mistake. Anyway, I still believe, that Kenoby was way ahead of Zanah in terms of dueling ability.

TBH I think Kenobi is overrated as a Soresu master. People act as if he is unquestionably the most skilled master in history. He's not that good, he gets his butt kicked frequently. While he was definitely the premier Soresu master in his time, his skill is not so great that he lacks rivals. Zannah successfully defending against Bane in sabers makes Zannah unquestionably superior to him in raw defense. Her defense was almost impenetrable and extraordinarily effective. By keeping up with Bane like she did, she also proved herself to be above Obi-Wan in speed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
TBH I think Kenobi is overrated as a Soresu master. People act as if he is unquestionably the most skilled master in history

On this, we agree. I never ever got the vibe that Kenobi was the fourth biggest badass Jedi ever or the unquestionably greatest Soresu practitioner of all time. Extremely badass? Yes. One of the best ever? Almost certainly. But I hate assigning rank and station where the source material doesn't.

👆

It's only Windu that says that, and I'm fairly sure he's only referring to the current era.

Maybe.

That's why I really don't like the top 10 lists anymore. Even as far as Sith go, we know Sidious is numero uno. Vitiate, Maul, Dooku, Vader, Caedus, Kun, Ragnos, and Revan are each considered "one of" the best Sith ever, but there's really no way of making an accurate list, especially with how nebulous feats can be.

👆 x 2 combo.

I also prefer not to do top 10's.