Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah. Cause that one shotting worked very well when Vader was carrying him over to a bottomless pit to throw him in.
What Vader would do without reactor shaft ? He just die because of Sidious's lightning. There was only one way to kill him ; backstabbing (or you can call it backcarrying) and finding a reactor shaft to throw.
Sidious would one shot Vader, without backcarrying and reactor shaft
Originally posted by Marco1907
What Vader would do without reactor shaft ?
Stab him with his Saber. Or crush him with his Cyborg strength.
But yes, getting him from behind is the only way he was going to "defeat" Sidious. However I refuse to believe someone who Lucas himself has said is 80% as Powerful as Sidious will get one shotted by him (Unless it's a Lightning blast that hits him before he can take his Saber out kind of like in the DS ending of TFU2- Endor).
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Stab him with his Saber. Or crush him with his Cyborg strength.But yes, getting him from behind is the only way he was going to "defeat" Sidious. However I refuse to believe someone who Lucas himself has said is 80% as Powerful as Sidious will get one shotted by him (Unless it's a Lightning blast that hits him before he can take his Saber out kind of like in the DS ending of TFU2- Endor).
Sidious's force lightning is too strong to deflect with lightsaber, especially by Vader, who has cybernatics, it will be like magnet to lightning.
Mace Windu, hardly (with screams) deflected it. And Yoda failed to deflect it with lightsaber in RotS and lost his saber.
Vader is not going to deflect Sidious's lightning with lightsaber, especially Sidious's lightning.
Lucas also said, Vader was like Count Dooku and Darth Maul, so %80 shouldn't be that impressive. And Vader should be more close to Maul and Dooku level, more than Sidious level.
Also lets not forget that, Maul's potential was being more powerful than Mother Talzin, who was strong enough to fight against Darth Sidious more than few minutes. Maul's full potential shouldn't be that low, comparing to that %80.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Sidious's force lightning is too strong to deflect with lightsaber, especially by Vader, who has cybernatics, it will be like magnet to lightning.Mace Windu, hardly (with screams) deflected it. And Yoda failed to deflect it with lightsaber in RotS and lost his saber.
Vader is not going to deflect Sidious's lightning with lightsaber, especially Sidious's lightning.
Yoda losing saber to lightning is circumstantial as at that point he barely landed and didn't have time to prepare for attack or solidify his base. He did block his lightning with saber in RotS script though.
Also, this:
From 1:40
YouTube video
Marek had no problem deflecting Sidious' lightning with one hand at 4:30:
YouTube video
Originally posted by Marco1907
Sidious's force lightning is too strong to deflect with lightsaber, especially by Vader, who has cybernatics, it will be like magnet to lightning.
Doesn't matter. Their force powers divert the Lightning to the Saber. That's why Opress with his lack of training could not catch Lightning with his Saber.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Mace Windu, hardly (with screams) deflected it. And Yoda failed to deflect it with lightsaber in RotS and lost his saber.
Yoda lost it after being caught by surprise.
Vader is stronger than Windu in the Force. As well as being "physically" stronger.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Vader is not going to deflect Sidious's lightning with lightsaber, especially Sidious's lightning.
Sure he is. Windu not only catches it, but deflects it back onto Sidious.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Lucas also said, Vader was like Count Dooku and Darth Maul, so %80 shouldn't be that impressive. And Vader should be more close to Maul and Dooku level, more than Sidious level.
Being "Like" Maul and Dooku does not make them equally powerful. They were all "alike" because they were all apprentices to Sidious who were less powerful than Sidious, and not likely to ever surpass him in power.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Also lets not forget that, Maul's potential was being more powerful than Mother Talzin, who was strong enough to fight against Darth Sidious more than few minutes. Maul's full potential shouldn't be that low, comparing to that %80.
Talzin used magics so not relevant. Sidious wanted a proper Sith Apprentice. While learning whatever dark magic secrets he could as well.
Vader had achieved 80% of Sidious's power. His potential would have been higher than this.
@arhael
The first video is moot also. That was dream, sith sorcery.
Movie canon > TCW canon > Others
Yoda failed to deflect Sidious's lightning via lightsaber. Call it nonsense as you like, it will not change the fact.
.
Sidious's force lightning gave more hard time to Windu than his lightsaber skills. If you read the RotS novel you would know this.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERVader had achieved 80% of Sidious's power. His potential would have been higher than this.
What ? Lucas never said something like this. He just said Anakin had %200 of Sidious potential, but after his heavy injury that potential decrease to %80. Then he became like Count Dooku and Darth Maul. Not like the Emperor.
"Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful, but he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor. So that isn’t what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the dark side."--George Lucas, quoted in J. Windolf, “Star Wars: The Last Battle,” Vanity Fair, 2005
"And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."--George Lucas, Rolling Stones Interview, 2005.
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Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Vader is stronger than Windu in the Force. As well as being "physically" stronger.Sure he is. Windu not only catches it, but deflects it back onto Sidious.
Vader is not ''so stronger'' than Windu in the force, nor Vader is not at another level than Windu. Windu is strong enough to manipulate an AT-TE(a tank), force crushed Grievous, created powerful force wave that destroyed a large group of droid army.
Stronger than Windu ? When Vader destroyed super-battle droids with his bare hands, or when did he matched with a Gundark in terms of physical strength ?
Windu was physically stronger, and more skilled than Vader. And as I said before, Vader's cybernetic limbs and his breathing mask makes him magnet to lightning. That is why, that feat is impossivle to accomplish for Vader.
This quote explains why Vader can't do the same ;
Vader shaped himself by inflicting pain on others. Unfortunately, because of his artificial arms, he was unable to conjure Sith Lightning or be invulnerable to it. He would always be weaker than the Emperor.-The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader
Vader is vulnerable to sith lightning.
Originally posted by Marco1907
This quote explains why Vader can't do the same ;Vader is vulnerable to sith lightning.
That's irrelevant to him catching FL with his Lightsaber.
Originally posted by Marco1907Movie canon > TCW canon > Others
No TCW is just as canon as the Movies now. It always was really considering even in the old rules, whatever Lucas confirmed was G-Canon, and Lucas always said TCW was canon.
Originally posted by Marco1907Yoda failed to deflect Sidious's lightning via lightsaber. Call it nonsense as you like, it will not change the fact.
Nah, it just caught him by surprise.
Ventress gets hit by Dooku's FL when she fights alongside the Nightsisters, but blocks it when fighting alongside Opress.
Plus the script confirms Yoda deflects Sidious's Lightning right after Sidious lost his Lightsaber.
Script is G - Canon.
If you look at the depiction in the RotS comic, also, some of Sidious's lightning did snake past Mace's lightsaber, and he had to conjure a barrier to protect himself against the stray bolts.
Malgus's lightning blasted through the defenses provided by Aryn Leneer's dual lightsabers, as well as those of a Zabrak Jedi Master.
Originally posted by Marco1907What ? Lucas never said something like this. He just said Anakin had %200 of Sidious potential, but after his heavy injury that potential decrease to %80. Then he became like Count Dooku and Darth Maul. Not like the Emperor.
now he’s maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor.
It says "NOW" as in what he's actualized. It's not potential, if it was the line would say something like, "Now the best he can achieve is 20% less than the Emperor," or "now he might one day become 20% less than the Emperor.."
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Originally posted by Marco1907
Vader is not ''so stronger'' than Windu in the force, nor Vader is not at another level than Windu. Windu is strong enough to manipulate an AT-TE(a tank), force crushed Grievous, created powerful force wave that destroyed a large group of droid army.Stronger than Windu ? When Vader destroyed super-battle droids with his bare hands, or when did he matched with a Gundark in terms of physical strength ?
Windu was physically stronger, and more skilled than Vader. And as I said before, Vader's cybernetic limbs and his breathing mask makes him magnet to lightning. That is why, that feat is impossivle to accomplish for Vader.
Clearly you haven't seen TFU.
Vader's equal in the force (until the very end) was manipulating Star Destroyers. That's bigger than anything Windu has even done.
Even just from the movies- Vader Chokes people over Skype, he blocks Blaster Bolts with his hands, rips out large pieces of machinery mid-saber duel without even moving his hands.
Yes Vader's Force powers are above Windu's. He's Windu's inferior in Sabers, yet still manages to be 80% as Powerful as Sidious.
Lol @ Starkiller manipulating Star Destroyer... He can manipulate Star Destroyer, but he gets heavy wounds from Shaak Ti's force blast...
No ****ing way Starkiller can manipulate a star destroyer, he can only change its rotation (which was already falling) a little, with 1 hour work...
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
now he’s maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor.It says "NOW" as in what he's actualized. It's not potential, if it was the line would say something like, "Now the best he can achieve is 20% less than the Emperor," or "now he might one day become 20% less than the Emperor.."
Wtf ''Now'' means ? He is talking about RotS timeline, and his raw force potential only. He also said Anakin's raw potential %200, but after his injury it became %80. Means ; that potential is gone. You are just making up this like ''now he can be %80 of him one day'' he never said this bullshit.
Originally posted by Trocity
Krayt actually can one shot tho
No, he can't.
Vader is Krayt's superior in force power, though it's not to the extent that Vader could ragdoll him, though it would provide him somewhat of an advantage depending on the location they would be fighting and if the location.
Krayt's dark transfer requires that he places his hand on his opponent, which would be a very risky move mid-combat against someone like Vader, unless he overpowers Vader in a duel, which I don't see happening. His sorcery was only used on Cade, who was nearly unconscious at the time. Other than that one use of the power, Krayt's never used illusions in the middle of combat, so there's no reason to assume it would come in handy against Vader.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Lol @ Starkiller manipulating Star Destroyer... He can manipulate Star Destroyer, but he gets heavy wounds from Shaak Ti's force blast...
When did Shaak Ti wound him via Tk? Besides that was a much weaker incarnation of starkiller, and clearly a more powerful Shaak Ti. Shaak Ti who even at the time of ROTS was considered one of the premier Council Members.
Originally posted by Marco1907
No ****ing way Starkiller can manipulate a star destroyer,
Except he did.
Originally posted by Marco1907
he can only change its rotation (which was already falling)
He changed the direction it was falling. He did that by MOVING it. That IS manipulating it.
Originally posted by Marco1907
a little, with 1 hour work...
What? LOL So it took an hour for the Star Destroyer to fall?
Originally posted by Marco1907
Wtf ''Now'' means ? He is talking about RotS timeline, and his raw force potential only. He also said Anakin's raw potential %200, but after his injury it became %80. Means ; that potential is gone. You are just making up this like ''now he can be %80 of him one day'' he never said this bullshit.
No, "Now" is the time of the OT. That's why he talks about "human Anakin" referring to him in the past, and talks right after the "Now" quote about Luke.
In any case ROTJ Vader was almost 50, so had plenty of time to fulfill his potential. Or at least very close to it. To put things in perspective for you Windu was 54 in ROTS.