Originally posted by krisblazeAlthough she is an Indian woman who loves her some Superman I have high standards that skank just doesn't measure up to.
I have no interest in the sexual dynamic between you and Abhi.I'm sure you switch to and fro, depending on whose characters are having a good week feat-wise.
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Not to talk bad things about other places, but on CV 95% of people seem to have never read Final Crisis: everytime they talk about Mandrakk or TR BS is what they say (95% of times they don't even know that there are two versions of Mandrakk).COIE AM is one of the most powerful entities ever written in DC, but don't let the New 52 disposition fool you: Mandrakk is not weaker than AM because of that.
To tell the truth, to gasp the true level of Mandrakk (Dax Novu) and TR, I suggest you to read Final Crisis Beyond: you will understand what the Primal Monitor and thus Mandrakk and TR really are; you will see that Grant Morrison has brilliantly came up with an idea of a greater God (Primal Monitor) than God himself (Presence) without making the Presence less omnipotent at all (maybe in the next Multiversity we will be explained even more some connection between PM and Presence, or maybe not..), with Mandrakk and TR that are the consequences of Primal Monitor approaching creation (which is the whole DCU).
Primal Monitor is the white page where comics are written and it is a non dual (i.e. in Primal Monitor there is no good or evil) living overvoid, and Mandrakk is its negative aspect which generated when a part of Primal Monitor (the first probe and most powerful of all, Dax Novu) blended with creation (DC) eons before (I could even say that probably, at that time, DC was made of infinite universes but still Dax Novu mapped all of them, so yeah, imagine how powerful it was); the result of the blending was that the duality of stories corrupted the non dual mind of Primal Monitor, and thus the concept of Mandrakk was born as the materialization of evil.
And what does this negative materialization of the white page (Primal Monitor) do to all stories (whole DCU)? It devours them, until nothing but void is left.
It is true that COIE AM wrestled with unbound Spectre, but the weaker version of Mandrakk, which is Rox Ogama (basically the concept of Mandrakk took over a Monitor - Rox Ogama - and entered creation; that's because as long as Monitors exist, the inner duality in them of good and evil exists, and thus the concept of Mandrakk itself keeps on existing), was capable of kill, with ease (and in fact it did even happen off panel) two aspects of the Presence itself, i.e. Spectre and Radiant (Mercy of God).
Before someone says it was Crispus Spectre, it has to be said that at that point of Final Crisis Spectre was holy powerful: indeed, after the Spear of Destiny issue, Spectre remade all of creation, and Radiant was at its best as well.
And this Mandrakk (Rox Ogama) is a drop in the ocean, a spec of dust in power if compared to the original Mandrakk (Dax Novu) who wrestled the TR outside of creation.
Finally I'll leave you here these three comments directly from Grant Morrison himself:"In the case of comic book stories, it's the war between white page and ink. And who's to say that the page might want that particular story drawn on it? [laughs] What happens if the page is a bit pissed off at the story that's drawn on it? So I thought of the page as God. The idea being that the Overvoid"
"On the very edge of the art and the edge of the mind of God there are these two big concepts fighting – Superman and Mandrakk, Predation and Protection, Greed and Preservation, Ugly and Beautiful, Youth and Age, Good and Evil, Black and White, Is and Isn't and all the others. Beyond that crumbling ledge in Monitor-World, those concepts don't exist and it's all non-dual Monitor mind."
"Mandrakk is actually the ultimate evil where there's no hope. The grave. He's entropy, I suppose. No matter how hard you try, this entity will consume the universe and you'll be sucked into the gaping, bulging Black Hole of Mandrakk."
Mandrakk wins.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I did read it. He was staked by a gl stake.😂
If you read FC as you say you did, you surely know that Rox Ogama didn't die because of a GL stake; by saying such a thing you are mystifying the whole story.
The concept of Mandrakk vanished because Superman wished an happy ending with the MM (a massively multiversal Deus ex Machina object): because of that happy ending, than the Monitors realized they were corrupting existence (DC) and that the "germs' world" could have been better without them.
In fact, as long as the Hyper-Gods Monitors exist and keep on making contact with creation (DC), the inner duality of good and evil which corrupted Primal Monitor's mind eons before is still there, and thus the concept of Mandrakk (evil) is still there.
Mandrakk, as a concept, is something nobody/nothing from DC can take down (see Spectre and Radiant dead, and I repeat myself, a very powerful Spectre), and the only way to destroy it was to wish a happy ending on a multiversal scale, because Mandrakk was the ending of all stories on a multiversal scale (DC).
So, with that wish from the MM, even Nix Uotan pops up, as the Judge of All Evil. Nix Uotan, a Monitor who lived with and between the germs and who, as son of Rox Ogama, is exactly the opposite of the father: he indeed chose to protect the stories of the Orrery (opposite of Ogama who, contrariwise, by drinking from the bitter cup of Mandrakk, accepted to devour them), and realized that there was no better way to protect them than leaving them alone, given the inner dualism and thus even negative essence of Monitors.
So, Nix Uotan shows up as opposite of the concept of Mandrakk, and with him there's a multiversity "gang" of entities from all creation, reflecting the fact that the whole multiverse can watch over itself and its power is much greater than the Monitros used to believe; it's at this point that the happy ending realizes itself: a happy ending of the story is given over the ending of all stories (Mandrakk) and the events of whole DC multiverse can go on without no more Monitors interfering with them.
At this point the concept of Mandrakk is defeated, and that was when some Supermen from various universes "eye-lasered" him and the GL staked him.
After that, Nix Uotan returned to Monitors's sphere, and here we see the whole race of Monitors realising it was right for them to disappear (and thus we have the Final Crisis of the Monitors race), in order to protect the germ's world (which is DC) and let it develop freely: so, finally, at this point, we see the Primal Monitor, the white page, the Overvoid which engulfs the whole Monitors' sphere, erasing them from existence bringing all back at the condition it has been eons ago, before the "ill contact" of PM's probe with creation.
Only Nix Uotan story is left, and we see him waking with uman (thus germ) form: he will be the only, chosen left contact of the Primal Monitor with life and stories (DC).
So, if you really believe that it was just a pair of GLs beating Mandrakk Rox Ogama, you are clearly, dramatically missing the main meaning of the whole FC book.
PS: finally, once again, remeber that Rox Ogama was just a mere, insignificant, minuscule avatar of the original Mandrakk, Dax Novu, the part of Primal Monitor itself, the probe which mapped creation eons before and, basically, the very origin of the concepts of good (TR) and evil (Mandrakk Dax Novu) seen from a Primal Monitor's prospective.
Originally posted by CatL18
Thank you for your posting.
I will read Final Crisis soon.
You're welcome. 🙂