New 'Secret Wars' is Marvel Comics' major event of 2015

Originally posted by Galan007
The issues haven't been bad--they just haven't been that good either. In fact, the only issue so far that I thought was great from beginning to end was the very first issue--the war between Earth-616 and Earth-1610. That was fantastic. All the issues since have been mediocre overall, imo.

I really want the finale to be as epic as the first issue was(if not moreso)--and it definitely has the potential to be. As I said above, though: I'm just worried there is too much that needs to happen, and if they try to cram too much into the book, it will seem rushed and sloppy. We saw the same thing happen with the last issue of Final Crisis, and I don't want Secret Wars to suffer the same fate.

Hopefully Hickman comes through in the clutch, though. If anyone can deliver, it's him. 👆

Originally posted by Juntai
So you skipped 2 or 3 issues [Did you skip Submit before that also?] and got lost?

Wonder why.

Keep in mind, those were side-books, of which there were a lot. Reading the main book wouldn't tell you that you need to read Superman Beyond.

Originally posted by Bentley
Editors should do a thing to keep events from being essentially two issues long with filler inside.

I get that it's exactly the opposite that happens 😬

Agreed. I have loved lots of event side stuff, but I think in main event books they think they're doing 'buildup for the finale,' but it's not strong enough in what's-happening-now. Like, House of M was really bad at this (SW is better than that).

Hm, I'm going to make an event thread...

Yeah at the time I was just reading the main Final Crisis mini as I hadn't heard about the side books like Beyond and Submit (was just getting into DC stuff at the time) so it felt incredibly jumbled.

In the collected version of it which has Submit and Beyond in their logical places it makes a lot more sense. But the main series alone has stuff at the end that appears to just suddenly happen for no reason.

Infinity was similar (and worse) in that you really, really had to read the Avengers/New Avengers issues along side the main Infinity mini. Albeit, that was a story line that was meant to just be in Avengers and got blown up into an event by Marvel higher ups.

Originally posted by Juntai
I don't feel that way about FC at all. It explained that events started happening like that because time itself was breaking down from Darkseid's singularity.

The series would have benefited tremendously from another issue(8 issues instead of 7), imo. That way you wouldn't have had to read specific tie-ins to understand what was going on in the finale--it could have all been explained in the main series.

Btw, my favorite events are DC One Million (One main book covered everything you need, yet every single book had a cool spinoff. Epic as heck, too), and JLA/Titans Technis Imperative (handles a huge cast really well and resorts to *no* cheap 'drama' kills. Only really involves two teams, but still).

Even the great Crisis on Infinite Earth lagged in some places, and some bits felt kinda random without knowing the characters / just kinda hopped off to be resolved elsewhere.

Marvel, I don't think they do main event books quite as well (SW is, IMO, above the curve by their standards), though I've quite liked some of the off-to-the-side events like Annihilation and some of the X-events.

Originally posted by Q99
Btw, my favorite events are DC One Million (One main book covered everything you need, yet every single book had a cool spinoff. Epic as heck, too)

In fact, it was rereading the DC1M TPB that got me back into comics years ago.

Originally posted by Q99
Marvel, I don't think they do main event books quite as well (SW is, IMO, above the curve by their standards), though I've quite liked some of the off-to-the-side events like Annihilation and some of the X-events.

The main series AND all of its tie-ins are fantastic.

Agreed on Annihilation being one of Marvel's best events.

The main series was one of the first comics I read so had no idea about the previous mini's/backstory or whatnot, but it was excellent from start to finish. When I eventually read the previous minis/tie ins, they just built on an already excellent series. And they weren't integral to understanding what was going on.

Tbf Marvel's events since/around then have been fairly poor- Fear Itself was just bad, as was Original Sin. Siege, Civil War, AvX and House of M were pretty flawed. I think that covers the main ones.

The follow ups to Annihilation (Conquest, War of Kings, Thanos Imperative) were never as good as the original but definitely better than a lot of the Earth based ones.

Oh and like Q99 I've liked some of the X-events. Messiah Complex and Second Coming were pretty good.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish

Tbf Marvel's events since/around then have been fairly poor- Fear Itself was just bad, as was Original Sin. Siege, Civil War, AvX and House of M were pretty flawed. I think that covers the main ones.

I find they often did the followups with a lot more smoothness and skill than the main event.

The follow ups to Annihilation (Conquest, War of Kings, Thanos Imperative) were never as good as the original but definitely better than a lot of the Earth based ones.

Agreed.

Oh and like Q99 I've liked some of the X-events. Messiah Complex and Second Coming were pretty good.

Yea, those two really bookended that era well!

Hickman Thanos remains retarded. Still a really cool Doom moment though.

They had to stretch 7 into 2 issues where way too much emphasis was put on random nothings but we're expected to believe that the series will just end flawlessly in one issue when this is really the first time Doom gets confronted?

That extra issue should have actually cut into the downfall of Doom himself instead of the downfall of his empire. Or the last issue should be jam packed with IG vs Doom and throw in the plot device of Molecule Man cutting Doom off when things go bleak. That's really the only route they can go now since there's no room for a twist here. Or that's the hopeful end.

In the issue before the end Hickman introduced Franklactus, World Tree Groot, zombies, Black Panther IG, and Doomyonder onto the battlefield. Not to mention all the heroes. It's going to be way too hectic to finish well especially since it took 8 issues to have less happen than what has to happen in the finale (besides the first issue). Especially when you consider how long it took to get to this point. Years. And he has 5 characters that could be a major threat in any other event that just started to do things. Plus the waste on Hickman pages.

I like the event but all the happenings around it have ruined my enjoyment of comics. Delayed issue 9 is going to be a huge letdown imo. This whole thing was handled poorly from a great start.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Hickman Thanos remains retarded. Still a really cool Doom moment though.

They had to stretch 7 into 2 issues where way too much emphasis was put on random nothings but we're expected to believe that the series will just end flawlessly in one issue when this is really the first time Doom gets confronted?

That extra issue should have actually cut into the downfall of Doom himself instead of the downfall of his empire. Or the last issue should be jam packed with IG vs Doom and throw in the plot device of Molecule Man cutting Doom off when things go bleak. That's really the only route they can go now since there's no room for a twist here. Or that's the hopeful end.

In the issue before the end Hickman introduced Franklactus, World Tree Groot, zombies, Black Panther IG, and Doomyonder onto the battlefield. Not to mention all the heroes. It's going to be way too hectic to finish well especially since it took 8 issues to have less happen than what has to happen in the finale (besides the first issue). Especially when you consider how long it took to get to this point. Years. And he has 5 characters that could be a major threat in any other event that just started to do things. Plus the waste on Hickman pages.

I like the event but all the happenings around it have ruined my enjoyment of comics. Delayed issue 9 is going to be a huge letdown imo. This whole thing was handled poorly from a great start.

Hickman can do much better than what he's shown so far. We've seen it in the stories leading up to this(some of which were absolutely superb.) Shame he's trying to rush the finale of a work that has been yearS in the making. srsly

I'm still trying to stay optimistic that he'll salvage it, though... I really am.

Originally posted by Galan007
👆

Hickman can do much better than what he's shown so far. We've seen it in the stories leading up to this(some of which were absolutely superb.) Shame he's trying to rush the finale of a work that has been yearS in the making. srsly

I'm still trying to stay optimistic that he'll salvage it, though... I really am.

What do you prefer? Morrison's Multiversity (Also years in the making) or Secret Wars?

Every single issue of Multiversity was excellent, and moreover original. The only exception was the final issue(which was decent, but definitely not as good as some of the others.)

It was far and away superior to Secret Wars overall. No doubt about it.

I still haven't got round to reading Multiversity but plan to soon. It very much seems like Morrison's plan since 2007 so I figure it will be excellent.

As for Hickman doing better that's clearly true in the finale of his FF run. The Celestial/Council of Reeds arc ended in what could have been a huge event but was better in the way he did it (and it was excellent) and then the follow up before his run ended had some of the best FF issues (as in FF and fantastic Four) in the last decade or so).
That is really why I have high hopes for the Secret Wars finale- it looks like it's based around Reed and Doom and that a) works for the Marvel Universe and B) are two characters Hickman knows inside out.

Originally posted by Zack M
What do you prefer? Morrison's Multiversity (Also years in the making) or Secret Wars?

Though while he had years to plan it, he didn't have as "rush" if you will. He had around 20 or so issues to set it up over many years trying to figure out how to tie it together. And that's the smart way to do things. There was no real pressure with him besides DC fudging with Final Crisis a little and I have my doubts what actually happened in Multiversity was on his mind during FC.

What Hickman did... stupidly was try to make what like 70 issues in a couple years all tie together under constant pressure from Marvel. The ****ing end of this wasn't even done when it was released. And I have severe doubts that this was his plan when he was writing F4 so we're not factoring that in though if we did he'd be well over 100 issues deep in like 4 or however many years it was (plus Ultimate Universe shenanigans). That's a lot of ****ing work and it shows. Secret Wars plays out like his writing leading up to it. Planning everything. But now we're one issue left and it took him over 70 issues to get to this point and there is a lot of stuff that needs to happen.

Which seems to mean he ran out of comics. He overworked himself and he ran out of space to actually finish it. The first 6 issues were still world building this thing and now the last 3 (really 2) are in a rush to end it.
For this to work without loose ends and under Hickman's style, it seems like it would have needed to have been at least a 12 issue mini. For that to work with readers however, it should have been a bi monthly series so you're never waiting too long and well it has to be an event because of the ramifications but at least it wouldn't have been dragged out enough that Marvel had enough and released a whole ****load of books that happen after the event that thoroughly downplay the importance of the event.

I think what Hickman did was one of the most impressive things done in comics. But all the freedom Marvel gave him backfired when they had enough. They thought he'd be done so they hired everyone to make tie ins and after series and they realized they had nothing so they just released them. That's one aspect of this. The other is his nigh infinite freedom was still limited in that he didn't get to build towards a proper end. Blame it on overwork, blame it on being slow, Blame it on the artist, whatever. But with one issue to go, I don't want to see it happen as fast as the first issue as good as that was. Invincible God gets confronted by someone other than Pheonclops and loses in the same comic. Sounds way too fast.

Maybe it will turn out good in the end, maybe it will all be amazing afterwards, but for now it is simply good. Really good if you consider the rest of Marvel being dogshit. The buildup was better than the event so far. Retroactively of course because that was long as shit too but at least it was coming out.

Hickman tried something amazing and simply ended up with something really good at the end in other words. Hell maybe it had nothing to do with Marvel and this was his plan all along. Abrupt end.
Grant had little to no interference and meticulously planned something great, and that's what he ended up with. It took him a while but he tied everything in really nice. And with Grant while it took him a while he wasn't taxing himself every week with it. He could go plant some loads in hookers for months straight if he wanted. And that's what Hickman lacked, the time to go on monthlong hooker orgies.

That begs the question though of how good a big book Hickman could do if he himself didn't lead into it or it had no lead up. Does he need it or would it stand for itself? What is a fault in Secret Wars could be what he needs and that's huge ****ing buildups. The man can clearly write really good, but he seems like the kind of guy who needs actual limitless freedom and no time constraints. He should just start storyboarding his work and set forth a bunch of teams to finish it in a timely fashion.

Basically what I'm saying is what Hickman did was vastly more impressive. But Grant's was a vastly better product if we're talking about the endgame Secret Wars vs Multiversity. Hickman actively built up to his series while Grant used some stuff from previous works to say "hey I could make a story out of that". They aren't really comparable in anything other than it took a long time to make it. And comics need more of both of those kinds of thinkers though in lower doses.

So we went from talking about secret wars to DC multiversity?.......

Good input

Originally posted by One Big Mob
And with Grant while it took him a while he wasn't taxing himself every week with it. He could go plant some loads in hookers for months straight if he wanted. And that's what Hickman lacked, the time to go on monthlong hooker orgies.

Secret Wars was rushed so I wont really talk about Hickman even when the beyonders being PIS+CIS and and etc other than that SW is good.

Thought I'd bump this since it's coming up to the final issue now. I wondered what is everyone expecting from the final issue?

I know you can say a Reed and Doom fight but I mean like on a more indepth level. I take it Doom will be winning the battle against Black Panther (and probably beats him), then the Maker and Reed convince Owen to cut off the power supply. Then Reed gives him a good beating and perhaps dies at the end (since the Human Torch remarks that Reed has gone). Perhaps he dies having the power to recreate the Universe.

I've even seen some theories where people say that they think Adult Franklin Richards will make a return as well.

Also just came across this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-u-paMQyMQ

Looks to be real. I pasted the link in as I couldn't see the embedded video appearing.