Originally posted by Digi
I'm trying to remember...I don't think it was an elder Prime. I think he had just absorbed more energy and "looked" older. Maybe I'm wrong. It was a weird explanation. I also think he later changed back to his younger look for similar reasons.That incarnation of him also, if I'm not mistaken, is the one that survived the Monarch-explosion that destroyed a universe. I wasn't holding it back to play as a trump card, I just forgot about it until now.
Monarch is another ABC argument waiting to happen, while we're talking about him. Cheese or not, Black Adam was near his pre-FP peak when Prime no-sold him. But Monarch was even another level of beast. If we award Prime the win or even stalemate with Monarch, we're giving him nigh-effortless wins over dozens of heralds, and likely a few that were Trans.-level.
In any case, I've been counting the older-looking one in this, since it's the same character. If we split them into two versions, it obviously hurts his feat count.
Anyway, like I said, your opinion is an entirely valid one, and more thoroughly articulated than many. I remain unconvinced, but you've forced me to admit that it's a much closer fight than I initially thought. I don't think it's clear, and won't really disagree strongly with those repping Hulk.
I agree. It's also good to know, because I thought that Prime aged somehow, I just never knew the full story, and only got bits and pieces from here and there. Monarch certainly is a strong position to stand on, but again, I'm not entirely sure if that blast would have killed the Hulk either. I do however feel confident that this version of the Hulk would have been able to rupture his containment. The surviving part is anyone's guess, but like I said, the Hulk survived a hit from a pissed off concept entity named Hope (yep the Hope from Pandora's box).
Hope was stated on panel to register or weigh in at just over 113 Herc's. Meaning; 1 Herc was the amount of force that Hercules under optimal conditions could put out in a full force hit. The Hulk took 113 of those to his internal organs, and survived. He was much calmer than he was during the Dark Dimension. Somewhere this has to factor in. I wouldn't be surprised if the Hulk could also survive the explosion that Prime did.
At the very least, I can see why people vote for either side. Prime was a beast, and to say anything other than that is likely just petty low balling. I can't see the Hulk landing enough hits to take Prime out, and his speed would make sure that many of the punches never found their mark, but at the same time, I don't see Prime being able to floor his version of the Hulk either, because he'd just continue to grow stronger, heal faster, and become more durable inside, and out.
I can see a stalemate. They do happen from time to time, and eventually both of them would simply give up.
Originally posted by StoicUnfortunately, Prime may not have the necessary power to hurt WB hulk, and he would eventually have to come to blows with him, meaning; There would come a time when they stood toe to toe. hulk was at a point that he didn't give a phuck anymore, and was tapping into the Gamma Force like never before. He was growing exponentially more powerful by the second, and although he surely had a limit, one was never shown throughout that particular arc. Superboy Prime on the other hand.... 😬
A punch so hard it breaks reality is not enough?
Originally posted by Stoic
I agree. It's also good to know, because I thought that Prime aged somehow, I just never knew the full story, and only got bits and pieces from here and there. Monarch certainly is a strong position to stand on, but again, I'm not entirely sure if that blast would have killed the Hulk either. I do however feel confident that this version of the Hulk would have been able to rupture his containment. The surviving part is anyone's guess, but like I said, the Hulk survived a hit from a pissed off concept entity named Hope (yep the Hope from Pandora's box).Hope was stated on panel to register or weigh in at just over 113 Herc's. Meaning; 1 Herc was the amount of force that Hercules under optimal conditions could put out in a full force hit. The Hulk took 113 of those to his internal organs, and survived. He was much calmer than he was during the Dark Dimension. Somewhere this has to factor in. I wouldn't be surprised if the Hulk could also survive the explosion that Prime did.
At the very least, I can see why people vote for either side. Prime was a beast, and to say anything other than that is likely just petty low balling. I can't see the Hulk landing enough hits to take Prime out, and his speed would make sure that many of the punches never found their mark, but at the same time, I don't see Prime being able to floor his version of the Hulk either, because he'd just continue to grow stronger, heal faster, and become more durable inside, and out.
I can see a stalemate. They do happen from time to time, and eventually both of them would simply give up.
👆
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
A punch so hard it breaks reality is not enough?
That's actually the feat I downplay the most of Prime's, and I'm backing him in this thread. We don't know if it was reality-altering strength, or if the particular point of reality he was punching on was enabling the changes. For all we know, hundreds of other heralds could have accomplished the same.
In other words, it's much less quantifiable than other feats.
Originally posted by DigiPrime also altered reality while fighting the titans. He broke free physically from the phanthom zone, altering them in real time.
That's actually the feat I downplay the most of Prime's, and I'm backing him in this thread. We don't know if it was reality-altering strength, or if the particular point of reality he was punching on was enabling the changes. For all we know, hundreds of other heralds could have accomplished the same.In other words, it's much less quantifiable than other feats.
So the first time wasn't just a coincidence.
Originally posted by Reflassshh
Prime also altered reality while fighting the titans. He broke free physically from the phanthom zone, altering them in real time.So the first time wasn't just a coincidence.
Understood, and agreed. It's just, as mentioned, those are unquantifiable feats. I prefer to stick with what we can know more certainly.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
A punch so hard it breaks reality is not enough?
The grey hulk punched his way into another dimension. These are as Digi mentioned, unquantifiable feats. The problem here is that no one can know for sure who would win between these two. Neither have any real glaring weaknesses, and are ridiculously powerful to the point that either may be able to turn guys on DOS Doomsday's power level to dust with a punch. That's saying quite a lot. 1 Hercules can lift a state if not more, multiply that strength by 113, and it still would be below the power level of what was shown during the HOTM arc.
Try to pick it apart if you want, but like I said, neither of these 2 have any real glaring weaknesses. I'd be content with a stalemate, as no one has given any solid proof or presented any hard evidence to suggest one is above the other if weighed on a scale.
Originally posted by Stoic
The grey hulk punched his way into another dimension. These are as Digi mentioned, unquantifiable feats. The problem here is that no one can know for sure who would win between these two. Neither have any real glaring weaknesses, and are ridiculously powerful to the point that either may be able to turn guys on DOS Doomsday's power level to dust with a punch. That's saying quite a lot. 1 Hercules can lift a state if not more, multiply that strength by 113, and it still would be below the power level of what was shown during the HOTM arc.Try to pick it apart if you want, but like I said, neither of these 2 have any real glaring weaknesses. I'd be content with a stalemate, as no one has given any solid proof or presented any hard evidence to suggest one is above the other if weighed on a scale.
You have a solid stance, no need for me to pick it, I agree as well.
Breaking free from the phantom zone is pretty major.
But SBP has plenty of quantifiable feats.. Pushing around planets to re arrange the universe so Oa isn't at the center of the universe anymore, for one. Or throwing Anti Monitor insanely far (Out of the solar system, at the least), with a single throw.
Originally posted by cdtm
Breaking free from the phantom zone is pretty major.But SBP has plenty of quantifiable feats.. Pushing around planets to re arrange the universe so Oa isn't at the center of the universe anymore, for one. Or throwing Anti Monitor insanely far (Out of the solar system, at the least), with a single throw.
Those are big deals. Why are they being overlooked as unquantifiable?
Originally posted by cdtm
Breaking free from the phantom zone is pretty major.But SBP has plenty of quantifiable feats.. Pushing around planets to re arrange the universe so Oa isn't at the center of the universe anymore, for one. Or throwing Anti Monitor insanely far (Out of the solar system, at the least), with a single throw.
Those are also flight feats. With BFR off throwing the Hulk away becomes pointless. Shattering a planet by throwing a punch is well within the range of what it would take to move planets under ones own power, not to mention the ability to continue to grow stronger from that point on, which was also shown in HOTM. Face it, when it comes to the Hulk, and Superman, writers have often stopped a yard short of giving the reader the impression that they simply have enough power to confront any given situation, at any given time. having trouble with that? Just go back into their history, and look at the arms race that has been going on throughout the years. Book of Infinite pages, lifting the Spectre's body weight, outstripping the Champion with the Power Gem, punching through time and space.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Those are big deals. Why are they being overlooked as unquantifiable?
Because the Hulk has similar feats. The Phantom Zone is another dimension correct? The grey Hulk has punched through dimensions. The mindless hulk tore through a mystical barrier leading to another dimension yadda yadda.
Originally posted by Stoic
Because the Hulk has similar feats. The Phantom Zone is another dimension correct? The grey Hulk has punched through dimensions. The mindless hulk tore through a mystical barrier leading to another dimension yadda yadda.
Prime also escaped the Speed Force, a feat that's never been accomplished to my knowledge if you're not part of the Flash family.
Originally posted by Stoic
Because the Hulk has similar feats. The Phantom Zone is another dimension correct? The grey Hulk has punched through dimensions. The mindless hulk tore through a mystical barrier leading to another dimension yadda yadda.
Phantom Zone makes you into an intangible ghost, though. That's why no one's ever been able to get out of it without outside help, no matter how powerful.
Not to mention, WBH did a lot of those feats because he knew peoplewowould come back from being killed.
Interesting how carver (and yes, I specifically single carver out here) always talks about how a hero performs in character, but when ur comes to the Hulk, he punches people's heads off willy nilly.
When its SBP who is far more likely to do so, in character.